Saw girl being attacked in the street this AM...

dcurzon

I was tootling along up through Dalston, when i see something on the opposite pavement occurring... a girl being pulled around by a guy. I think she was trying to get on the bus to get away from him and he was pulling her away and 'marched' her round the corner... i thought WTF?? i reduced speed to walking pace as i was concerned, she was now being pinned against a wall. 2 cyclists on MTB's came around that corner and joined my road.I wanted to get involved to check she was ok, but not on my own - been there, done that before, never a good idea... i said to one of the MTB'ers "do you think she needs help??" he glanced over his shoulder, didnt say a word and carried on his way. Great! Cheers for the support! Luckily, some burly chap charged in between them with a bellowing voice which seemed to disperse the trouble.

Have we come to the point now when people generally dont give a flying hoot about other people when they are in trouble like this? Just pretend you saw nothing and continue on yor way? Shame on you MTB'er... If you had been an old man i would understand, but you were young, of reasonable build, and would have doubled my numbers making confrontation easier.

richVSrich

i hope you called the police!!

suzyb

The situation like you describe sounds like it could have been a domestic thing. And a lot of people will be reluctant to get involved in those kind of incidents as, even though the woman was trying to get away from the guy she still might side with him if a stranger starts giving him grief. And whats the point of trying to help someone only to get grief from her afterwards.

Maxticate

+1

pangolin

suzyb wrote:

And whats the point of trying to help someone only to get grief from her afterwards.

Because what if it's more serious / not a domestic, and she ends up in trouble because of attitudes like that.

bails87

Maybe the MTBer had just recovered after being stabbed whilst 'intervening'?

Not sure what I'd do in that situation. I'm not built for fighting, other than I'm skinny enough that it would be like trying to punch a pipecleaner I've never thrown a punch in my life either, so I'd probably do it like a girl and then get battered.

That said, if someone was asking for help I'd like to think I'd back them up, just two blokes telling someone to f*ck off should have some impact.

UndercoverElephant

Not wanting to be unpleasant, OP, but the MTB'er didn't do much different to yourself. He'll have gone on his way for the same reasons you just stood there.

Kieran_Burns

A quick and LOUD shout usually distracts for long enough. In those kind of situations, the aggressor does not want witnesses and will (usually) back down.

After that, see what happens

suzyb

pangolin wrote:

suzyb wrote:

And whats the point of trying to help someone only to get grief from her afterwards.

Because what if it's more serious / not a domestic, and she ends up in trouble because of attitudes like that.

Then you've saved getting yourself into a dangerous situation that could have resulted in you getting hurt.

However if the woman ever finds you then you'll end up getting grief from her for not helping. So bit of a catch 22 situation.

richVSrich

suzyb wrote:

pangolin wrote:

suzyb wrote:

And whats the point of trying to help someone only to get grief from her afterwards.

Because what if it's more serious / not a domestic, and she ends up in trouble because of attitudes like that.

Then you've saved getting yourself into a dangerous situation that could have resulted in you getting hurt.

However if the woman ever finds you then you'll end up getting grief from her for not helping. So bit of a catch 22 situation.

you kinda have to use a bit of judgement here...

people having an argument...fine

potential serious trouble, but there would a risk to yourself, then call in the A-team....i mean cops...

portland_bill

I totally agree with the OP. I've been in similar positions a few times before, but as also mentioned, I once approached a situation and was promptly asked by the seemingly vulnerable female "Who the f*ck do you think you are?" to which I promptly turned to the bloke and said "Fair enough mate, give her a slap from me too ungrateful b*tch" and I walked off leaving a tirade of verbal abuse behind me, but it’s slags like that who stop people from stepping in when a normal reasonable girl is in something she can’t handle.

There are countless videos on the tv and internet of similar things happening where a lass appears to be in trouble and the poor sod who comes along to help ends up getting a load of abuse if not a hiding from the pair of them.

Unfortunately, the long term problem is what you experienced with the MTB rider, people stop giving a toss because they don't want to end up being turned on which leaves people who are genuinely in trouble and need of help exposed to ignorance.

About 15 or 16 years ago, me and a mate had been to see two girls we were seeing at the time who lived near each other in a fairly rough area in Newcastle, and on our way back to the bus stop we suddenly found ourselves surrounded by a group of about 10 or 12 lads. Unfortunately, me and my mate can handle ourselves so we foolishly tried to fend them off and after I'd managed to distance myself from a couple of them, I noticed another with a knife amongst them, so I grabbed my mates arm and we bolted. When I thought we had enough distance even though they were still chasing us (but we were out of sight), I banged on a door to ask them to call the police because there was a chance someone was going to stab one of us but was promptly told to "F*ck off!" and the door was slammed in my face and I didn’t have time to knock on another door by that point. Fortunately there was a police car driving down the road further through the estate so my mate jumped out in front of it and we were promptly arrested and taken to the police station for questioning about the use of weapons but were obviously released soon after. Not sure if anything was done about the other lads, but I definitely preferred a couple of hours in a cell to ending up in hospital or worse.

Anyway, I digress, the point is it’s sickening how quick people are to turn away from somebody else’s distress these days, but then I guess where do you draw the line and how do you tell when it’s genuine and not someone pulling a sick stunt on you?

dhope

Portland Bill wrote:

I totally agree with the OP. I've been in similar positions a few times before, but as also mentioned, I once approached a situation and was promptly asked by the seemingly vulnerable female "Who the f*ck do you think you are?" to which I promptly turned to the bloke and said "Fair enough mate, give her a slap from me too ungrateful b*tch" and I walked off leaving a tirade of verbal abuse behind me, but it’s slags like that who stop people from stepping in when a normal reasonable girl is in something she can’t handle.

There are countless videos on the tv and internet of similar things happening where a lass appears to be in trouble and the poor sod who comes along to help ends up getting a load of abuse if not a hiding from the pair of them.

Unfortunately, the long term problem is what you experienced with the MTB rider, people stop giving a toss because they don't want to end up being turned on which leaves people who are genuinely in trouble and need of help exposed to ignorance.

About 15 or 16 years ago, me and a mate had been to see two girls we were seeing at the time who lived near each other in a fairly rough area in Newcastle, and on our way back to the bus stop we suddenly found ourselves surrounded by a group of about 10 or 12 lads. Unfortunately, me and my mate can handle ourselves so we foolishly tried to fend them off and after I'd managed to distance myself from a couple of them, I noticed another with a knife amongst them, so I grabbed my mates arm and we bolted. When I thought we had enough distance even though they were still chasing us (but we were out of sight), I banged on a door to ask them to call the police because there was a chance someone was going to stab one of us but was promptly told to "F*ck off!" and the door was slammed in my face and I didn’t have time to knock on another door by that point. Fortunately there was a police car driving down the road further through the estate so my mate jumped out in front of it and we were promptly arrested and taken to the police station for questioning about the use of weapons but were obviously released soon after. Not sure if anything was done about the other lads, but I definitely preferred a couple of hours in a cell to ending up in hospital or worse.

Anyway, I digress, the point is it’s sickening how quick people are to turn away from somebody else’s distress these days, but then I guess where do you draw the line and how do you tell when it’s genuine and not someone pulling a sick stunt on you?

john74

This happened to me back in 1996 a guy was pulling a girl around trying to drag her into an alleyway so I stepped in and he done a runner, it turns out that he was trying to rape her and i actually stopped him so i always step in now because what if i hadnt that day she might have been seriously hurt or worse.
Even if you step in and get a thump you still might be saving someone from a more serious fate.
Also I got a £1000 reward from the girls father which was nice.

king_jeffers

Kieran_Burns wrote:

A quick and LOUD shout usually distracts for long enough. In those kind of situations, the aggressor does not want witnesses and will (usually) back down.

After that, see what happens

Yes but stay on your bike

I remember watching an episode on COPS (sorry needs to be in caps) one COP mentioned the difficulties of breaking up a domestic as inevitably both parties will turn on you... especially when one of them is put in the COPS car.

All suspects are innocent until proven guilty, *in* a court of law!

rick_chasey

If it's serious enough to risk stepping in - it should be serious enough to call the police.

It's not your job to police criminal activity - it's theirs.

You're right, it's often difficult to judge. In some ways with domestics, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

You could be getting the wrong end of the stick and calling the police would be an unnecessary and troubling tribulation for the guy, or you could not call them and turn out to have let abuse slide.

I can relate (as being a witness!), but for good reasons I shouldn't really post anything about it online, so I won't.

DonDaddyD

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Not wanting to be unpleasant, OP, but the MTB'er didn't do much different to yourself. He'll have gone on his way for the same reasons you just stood there.

+1

Also, was she screaming out for help? Or busy arguing with the guy? Was the guy being physically abusive? Was she fighting back? Because all of these play a part in how I might react.

Personally if I'm having an argument with Mrs DDD and some dude tries to step in that's just gonna get me more mad - directed specifically at him.

bails87

DonDaddyD

she was trying to get on the bus to get away from him and he was pulling her away and 'marched' her round the corner... i thought WTF?? i reduced speed to walking pace as i was concerned, she was now being pinned against a wall.

But you wouldn't do that to Ms DDD would you? :shock:

Stiff_Orange

OK lets turns this around,

Guy walks down the street talking on his smartphone, girl runs pass and grabs it, guy gives chase and grabs girl as she tries to jump on a bus. He holds the girls while trying to call the police.

Now I'm not saying that's what happened, but what if it had and you grabbed the guy letting the thief get away, sometimes it's not always black and white as it seems.

Vigilante action is not always the best course of action. As somebody earlier said a quick shout is sometimes enough.

Interesting choice of language in the OP. You specifically mention that the guy was on an MTB and call him a MTB'er. Why do you single this out? I'm not sure I can think of and XC or DH routes in Dalston so they were probably commuting just like you.
Do you think somebody on a road bike would have acted differently?

DonDaddyD

bails87 wrote:

DonDaddyD

she was trying to get on the bus to get away from him and he was pulling her away and 'marched' her round the corner... i thought WTF?? i reduced speed to walking pace as i was concerned, she was now being pinned against a wall.

But you wouldn't do that to Ms DDD would you? :shock:

Well of course I'm going to say no. :roll:

Real question is how much force was used to prevent her from getting on the bus and what constitutes being marched? Under the arm grab or over the shoulder caveman style. Have I had to carry a rowdy, angry, swearing drunken missus that way....?

tim_wand

If that was your Wife, Daughter , Mother or Sister being dragged from boarding a bus and then taken out of site down an alley way? Stood and watched.

Even verbal intervention from a distance would have helped. Your on a bike the blokes on foot.

I would not have been able to look myself in the mirror if I didnt do something. Even if the face looking back at me had a broken nose and a split lip. Heels a lot quicker than thinking I might have stood by and let someone get raped or killed.

Bullys/Scumbags rely on a society that doesnt challenge them, its not on!

DonDaddyD

tim wand wrote:

If that was your Wife, Daughter , Mother or Sister being dragged from boarding a bus and then taken out of site down an alley way? Stood and watched.

I'm sorry but that's out of context. If t was a loved one, chances are you would know who they were arguing with. If you didn't then - as you know them - you would be more capable of assessing the severity of the argument and would be more likely to react if needed.

The OP didn't know the person so none of those factors can be considered. All we can go on are the facts that he has stated, chiefly that he didn't know the woman or the guy.

sketchley

I had a mad one on a stag do a couple of years ago in Cardiff. I was walking back to my hotel with a mate, when we see a girl very distressed outside a club and fighting with her friend, loads of people were just ignoring it, some were even filming it! I intervened and managed to calm the whole thing down. She's screaming that she has just been raped in the club and accusing her friend of leaving her alone letting it happen. Just as I calm everyone down and was about to call the police, the boyfriend of one of the girls comes out of the club and following a bit misunderstanding he thinks I'm the one that raped her. It took a bit of quick explaining to defuse that one and let him know I was the one trying to help as it very nearly turned in to a fight. Fortunately he calmed down quickly and realised I was only trying to help and wasn't even in the club where it happened. He took charge very quickly and was on the phone to the police as I left. That could of got very messy but wouldn't stop me jumping in again.

Another time I turned up at a late night garage in Rochester only to see a girl run across the forecourt pursued by her boyfriend who then caught up and hit her. 10 seconds later I was standing between them telling him he had to go through me first if he wanted to hit her again. Like the coward he was (only cowards hit women) he backed down and sulked off. In my experience if they are hitting someone who is defenceless of much smaller it is because they are scared of picking on someone there own size so it's unlikely it will escalate if you intervene. Helps being a big bloke though.

What did you do in the finish, just ride off? I'm sure if you had shouted like KB suggested even from a distance it would of defused or at least changed the situation. Calling the Police would have been a good idea. Is the girl ok?

suzyb

I think whether you intervene is also dependant on the kind of person you are. By that I mean, are you someone who can difuse a situation, stay calm when others aren't or are you likely to get confrontational when confronted.

Standing back but keeping watch (and calling the police if necessary) may be a better course of action than getting involved. Similarily standing back and keeping watch to see whether something "just a domestic" or something more serious may also be a better course of action that just wading in straight away.

bails87

Sketchley wrote:

. Helps being a big bloke though.

Exactly.

I think a lot of the people who talk about fighting/intervening/squaring up to people in all situations are big guys who can probably intimidate someone into backing down simply because of their stature.

Sketchly, I remember the other dya you commented on someone's weight, that you were the same size as two of him. If he (or I) saw you gettin aggressive with someone, I don't think he/I'd jump (alone) in to intervene. We'd just end up in a situation where two people get attacked rather than one.

For example:

Like the coward he was (only cowards hit women) he backed down and sulked off. In my experience if they are hitting someone who is defenceless of much smaller it is because they are scared of picking on someone there own size so it's unlikely it will escalate if you intervene

In that situation there's a pretty good chance I'm smaller than his missus, in which case he'd give me a kicking and then go back to beating her up.

davmaggs

Each situation is different so weigh it up as you come across them. Having some kind of personal code that means you always intervene is just as silly as being overly afraid that everyone in London is carrying a knife.

If nothing else stop being a ****wit bystander and use your phone to call the police and stand clear. They don't even charge you for the call.

OP; by asking the other ride "do you think" type questions you were actually trying to dump decision making responsibility on him. You didn't do anything either (not a criticism), but seem niffed that he proactively made a decision.

In such situations you get results by pointing at one individual and then telling them what they will do e.g you phone the police

rf6

Probably a 999 moment tbh. Not sure I'd go wading in for the same reasons others have stated. Call the old bill, and let them sort it. You can always give evidence if there's a crime.

rf6

edit - double post

rf6

Probably a 999 moment tbh. Not sure I'd go wading in for the same reasons others have stated. Call the old bill, and let them sort it. You can always give evidence if there's a crime.

UndercoverElephant

rf6 wrote:

Probably a 999 moment tbh. Not sure I'd go wading in for the same reasons others have stated. Call the old bill, and let them sort it. You can always give evidence if there's a crime.

Is that a 2997 moment in total?

sketchley

bails87 wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

. Helps being a big bloke though.

Exactly.

I think a lot of the people who talk about fighting/intervening/squaring up to people in all situations are big guys who can probably intimidate someone into backing down simply because of their stature.

Sketchly, I remember the other dya you commented on someone's weight, that you were the same size as two of him. If he (or I) saw you gettin aggressive with someone, I don't think he/I'd jump (alone) in to intervene. We'd just end up in a situation where two people get attacked rather than one.

For example:

Like the coward he was (only cowards hit women) he backed down and sulked off. In my experience if they are hitting someone who is defenceless of much smaller it is because they are scared of picking on someone there own size so it's unlikely it will escalate if you intervene

In that situation there's a pretty good chance I'm smaller than his missus, in which case he'd give me a kicking and then go back to beating her up.

Agree with all of that. Although bloke in the garage was short he clearly worked out as he had big wide shoulders and huge guns etc. I suspect steroids may of been taken hence the aggression. It was nowhere near cut and dry in my mind that I would win in a fight. But point taken.

rf6

UndercoverElephant wrote:

rf6 wrote:

Probably a 999 moment tbh. Not sure I'd go wading in for the same reasons others have stated. Call the old bill, and let them sort it. You can always give evidence if there's a crime.

Is that a 2997 moment in total?

had a stutter on the enter key!!