I can't index

Kieran_Burns

Can't get the top gears (smallest cogs) to settle - what the heck am I doing wrong?

(new wheels - which are great btw, but for some reason I simply cannot get the higher gears (6th-9th) to not click or jump)

cjcp

Adjusted the limit screws? Adjusted the barrel? Pulled the cable tighten enough? If new wheels, and you had a spacer between the largest sprocket and the end of the hub, have you included this?

davis

Obvious dumb questions first:

You have put your cassette on correctly, yes? Paid careful attention to the spacers that were on the freehub, and their order, and replicated the spacers on the new wheel? -- Go and check the old wheel for a spacer which you forgot.

Is the wheel in the dropouts correctly?

Next, 'cos it's your higher gears, I'd guess your cable isn't quite tight enough... but anyway:

Have a brewed beverage, and start again. Do your limit screws first, then the cable tension. Check that the curve of the cable outer nearest the rear derailleur isn't too tight a radius, 'cos that can cause stickiness.
As your bike shifted well before, it's unlikely to be the jockey wheels, but then I doubt you should have needed to re-index unless, as above, your cassette spacing has changed..

Kieran_Burns

Not dumb questions and I did go back and check (twice) for the spacers and that the cassette spacing was correct. I also checked I'd tightened the retaining screw on correctly as well.

I think I'm going to go and check the old wheel now just to make sure that there wasn't a spacer lurking on the inside that I missed.....

will3

How old are your cable inners and outers?

AndyOgy

Bent mech hanger?

wombar

AndyOgy wrote:

Bent mech hanger?

This would be my guess as well. I got a new bike from CRC which had the most apalling "setup" I've ever seen (rear derailleur hitting rear spokes, loose bolts etc). I got everything set up nicely in the end, except for the rear derailleur.

The bigger cogs just refused to index properly. They would either click, or half change (i.e. jumping back and forth) or double shift. Was only gears 2-3 though (4-10 fine, as was 1). Turns out I had a bent rear derailleur hanger.

Spent ~£50 on the park tools hanger tool, 15 minutes straightening out the hanger, 2 minutes indexing, and I now have a perfectly shifting rear derailleur. The tool isn't cheap, but then it does the job perfectly. Alternatively, pop it into your LBS and you'll probably get it done for ~£25 max.

If you do it yourself, make sure you either have a spare hanger, or know where to get one. Hangers are made to be the weak point, and can snap if they've already taken a knock or need a lot of adjustment.

shouldbeinbed

AndyOgy wrote:

Bent mech hanger?

3rd'd

Kieran_Burns

I'd be very surprised if it was - it was working fine on the old wheel and the bike was on a workstand the whole time, so there's no way I could've bent the hangar.

I will however, check shortly

walkingbootweather

Remind me what you have done. Have you just transferred your old cassette to new wheels and still using the old chain? What sort of mileage on cassette and chain? If you have a new cassette and old chain I'm not surprised you are having problems.

If everything was OK before and you haven't had an 'incident' I'd be surprised if was a bent mech hanger.

The Rookie

Is the cassette tight on the freehub, no movement at all? Having said that when I had that it was the low gears that were the problem.

Simon

cycladianpirate

I'd start by taking the chain off and setting the limits by hand.

Put the chain on and screw the barrel adjuster right the way down.

Ensure that there is absolutely no tension in the cable before fixing it back in.

Start the "turning cranks and barrel adjuster" process.

If that doesn't work you can at least be sure that something is fundamentally wrong!!!

Jay dubbleU

I had a similar problem on the Duster - the hanger on that is quarter inch steel so unlikely to be bent but I couldn't get the chain onto the smallest cog - went back to the SRAM manual and set everything to zero, reset the limit screws and went through the indexing process by the book - worked OK

Kieran_Burns

walkingbootweather wrote:

Remind me what you have done. Have you just transferred your old cassette to new wheels and still using the old chain? What sort of mileage on cassette and chain? If you have a new cassette and old chain I'm not surprised you are having problems.

If everything was OK before and you haven't had an 'incident' I'd be surprised if was a bent mech hanger.

Same cassette, same chain - just a new wheel.

Got me stumped

First.Aspect

Is the wheel fully in the dropouts? (Take it out, put it back in again, if the indexing works - or can be made to work, because you've surely buggered everything up by now - don't tell anyone).

redvee

Kieran_Burns

Step away from the bike

walkingbootweather

Sleep on it.

In the morning remove wheel, check cassette, replace and try to adjust as usual using just the barrel adjuster.. If still not working you'll have to go back to first principles and set up from scratch as if new deraillier fitted. Park Tools and Youtube are your friends.

UndercoverElephant

Different wheels can have slight different spacing for the position of the cassette. It's worth starting again from the beginning.

Here's my method:

http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopi ... &start=198

As an addendum to that method, with some more experience I would put that if you set the barrel adjuster to be near the middle, you can then fine-tune your gears much easier. It you're having slow shifts to a bigger cog at the back, unscrew the adjuster a quarter turn (making the cable tighter), if you're having slow shifts to a smaller cog, screw the adjuster in a quarter turn.

Fettle well, and you shall be a man, my son.

Kieran_Burns

Boy am I thick.

Got it sorted in... oooooh.... less than a minute after I worked out what to do (okay looked up WHAT to do)

muttermuttermutter :oops:

First.Aspect

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Boy am I thick.

Got it sorted in... oooooh.... less than a minute after I worked out what to do (okay looked up WHAT to do)

muttermuttermutter :oops:

How much more humiliating would it be to actually explainn what it was that you did? The way you've left it, you might simply be self deprecating.

Kieran_Burns

Nope.

Me. Stupid.

Let's just leave it at that and feel warm and cuddly that anything you do will not be half as dumb as my attempts to index the gears without actually indexing the gears

First.Aspect

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Nope.

Me. Stupid.

Let's just leave it at that and feel warm and cuddly that anything you do will not be half as dumb as my attempts to index the gears without actually indexing the gears

So if you weren't adjusting what you thought you were adjusting, what had you been adjusting?

You were trueing the wheels, weren't you?

cjcp

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Nope.

Me. Stupid.

Let's just leave it at that and feel warm and cuddly that anything you do will not be half as dumb as my attempts to index the gears without actually indexing the gears

Come on, Batman, tell us.

Kieran_Burns

What are the 3 steps of correctly indexing the gears?

Jay dubbleU

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Boy am I thick.

Got it sorted in... oooooh.... less than a minute after I worked out what to do (okay looked up WHAT to do)

muttermuttermutter :oops:

Strange - exactly how I felt

Kieran_Burns

Kieran_Burns wrote:

What are the 3 steps of correctly indexing the gears?

pick the 1st two steps and repeat over and over and over again.... forgetting the 3rd.... :oops:

redvee

On the subject of indexing. I've learned that the cable adjusters on the downtube are close to the tyre, especially when it's travelling along at 12mph :oops:

phy2sll2

redvee wrote:

On the subject of indexing. I've learned that the cable adjusters on the downtube are close to the tyre, especially when it's travelling along at 12mph :oops:

Yup, quick way to polish your nails. Or remove them.

UndercoverElephant

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

What are the 3 steps of correctly indexing the gears?

pick the 1st two steps and repeat over and over and over again.... forgetting the 3rd.... :oops:

Am I right in thinking that your limit screws were really, really set?

Kieran_Burns

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

What are the 3 steps of correctly indexing the gears?

pick the 1st two steps and repeat over and over and over again.... forgetting the 3rd.... :oops:

Am I right in thinking that your limit screws were really, really set?

Oh yes. Superbly set.

UndercoverElephant

Kieran_Burns wrote:

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

What are the 3 steps of correctly indexing the gears?

pick the 1st two steps and repeat over and over and over again.... forgetting the 3rd.... :oops:

Am I right in thinking that your limit screws were really, really set?

Oh yes. Superbly set.

And your cable tension was, erm, rather sloppy?