4th Cat to 2nd Cat in one season

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Comments

  • Herbsman
    Herbsman Posts: 2,029
    DavidJB wrote:
    lyn1 wrote:
    trickydisco wrote:
    Who cares? It's 10 points

    Impressive in my book. Even if he raced before.
    4th cat..3rd cat the difference is 10 points...my difference is that I had'nt cycled for 20 years, smoked and I'm 46

    Eleven months ago I went on my first bike ride for 20 years.....8 months ago I rode my first 4th Cat race..... 4 months ago I gave up smoking....today I'm an ELITE cyclist.[/quote]

    :D
    :lol: Big difference between an Elite license holder and an Elite Cyclist as can be seen in any Tour Series race where the Elite license holders get dropped after a few laps by the Elite cyclists or in Premier where the license holders go off the back on the first climb. Getting the license is the easy part, especially if it comes from shed loads of over rewarded Nat B or 10x round the village green chippers. The hard part is being competitive in "proper" races once you get there! (a general point..not aimed at anyone specific)

    Yeah getting elite is soooo easy :roll:
    Try taking in the context of the entire paragraph instead of the first half of one sentence.
    CAPTAIN BUCKFAST'S CYCLING TIPS - GUARANTEED TO WORK! 1 OUT OF 10 RACING CYCLISTS AGREE!
  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    Some of the crit series do offer a huge amount of points for an hours racing. If you had a decent sprint and didn't mind a but if driving I think getting a large number of points through just midweek crits could be possible.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • lyn1
    lyn1 Posts: 261
    okgo wrote:
    Some of the crit series do offer a huge amount of points for an hours racing. If you had a decent sprint and didn't mind a but if driving I think getting a large number of points through just midweek crits could be possible.

    True, but it's more about the quality of the field rather than time/distance. Tour Series races only last an hour but if you want the points you have to beat most of the top crit riders in the country. If it's a weak field then it's weak whether you ride for 1 hour or 4 hours. There are absolutely shed loads of crits that offer 30 points for the win, yet barely attract any of the guys who ride Tour Series, or a handful at most. You only get 60 points for winning a Tour Series round against 50 top crit riders. If you put the races along side each other for quality, the local crit would be generously rewarded at 5 points for the win. Same goes for many National B that offer 60 points yet do not attract more than a handfull of top riders at best.You only get 100 for winning a Premier with 100 top guys.
    If you do a lot of races of this "over-rewarded" type its no surprise that guys you can move up the license categories very quickly. It's not about being exceptionally talented, but a flaw in the system.
  • DavidJB
    DavidJB Posts: 2,019
    Herbsman wrote:
    DavidJB wrote:
    lyn1 wrote:
    trickydisco wrote:
    Who cares? It's 10 points

    Impressive in my book. Even if he raced before.
    4th cat..3rd cat the difference is 10 points...my difference is that I had'nt cycled for 20 years, smoked and I'm 46

    Eleven months ago I went on my first bike ride for 20 years.....8 months ago I rode my first 4th Cat race..... 4 months ago I gave up smoking....today I'm an ELITE cyclist.[/quote]

    :D
    :lol: Big difference between an Elite license holder and an Elite Cyclist as can be seen in any Tour Series race where the Elite license holders get dropped after a few laps by the Elite cyclists or in Premier where the license holders go off the back on the first climb. Getting the license is the easy part, especially if it comes from shed loads of over rewarded Nat B or 10x round the village green chippers. The hard part is being competitive in "proper" races once you get there! (a general point..not aimed at anyone specific)

    Yeah getting elite is soooo easy :roll:
    Try taking in the context of the entire paragraph instead of the first half of one sentence.

    I did.
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Toks wrote:
    Mmm...4th cat to Elite?; I'm sure Tim Elverson Felt-Colbornes RT achieved this a a few years ago :twisted:

    Correct! Tim's a local rider and I spent quite a lot of that first winter riding with him. He benefitted from a great physique riding motocross. He won something like his first 10 races as he's got a great kick.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • displacedaussie
    displacedaussie Posts: 356
    I think we're all aware that there are different levels of cyclist lyn1. Nick is an Elite cyclist because he has an Elite licence, simple as that. No shit there are different levels within that licence category. It almost seems like you'd be happier if they pointlessly re-labelled the category system 1-5 instead of E-4, just so that certain riders didn't have "Elite" next to their name.

    I like the BC system - it nicely allows riders of similar levels to race and compete each other. It gives people a good chance of moving to their "correct" level, and avoids the sandbagging problems you get in other countries where upgrading is optional, or where grading happens by someone who has a vague idea what a cyclist is capable of.

    I'm a Cat 2, but it's pretty obvious that can mean a lot of different things. There are some who can sprint in 3/4 races but will never score a point in an E12. That's ok. There are others that will forever score 25+ in a year and will always be a Cat 2. Some will score many more and get close to Cat 1, or they'll get all 200 points pretty quickly. All of this is ok! Don't get so hung up on the category system and what a single word "means".
  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    I think that's right - the points system is just a rough way of dividing riders by ability and to give your average punter something to aim for.

    One thing is for sure - there aren't too many Elite and First cats - if there were any fewer it'd mean even fewer races for those at that level. If ever all these crits did have their points allocation reduced the amount of points to get a first or elite licence would have to be similarly reduced just to keep the numbers of E1 licence holders up.
    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • lyn1
    lyn1 Posts: 261
    displacedaussie wrote:
    I think we're all aware that there are different levels of cyclist lyn1. Nick is an Elite cyclist because he has an Elite licence, simple as that. No shoot there are different levels within that licence category. It almost seems like you'd be happier if they pointlessly re-labelled the category system 1-5 instead of E-4, just so that certain riders didn't have "Elite" next to their name.

    I like the BC system - it nicely allows riders of similar levels to race and compete each other. It gives people a good chance of moving to their "correct" level, and avoids the sandbagging problems you get in other countries where upgrading is optional, or where grading happens by someone who has a vague idea what a cyclist is capable of.

    I'm a Cat 2, but it's pretty obvious that can mean a lot of different things. There are some who can sprint in 3/4 races but will never score a point in an E12. That's ok. There are others that will forever score 25+ in a year and will always be a Cat 2. Some will score many more and get close to Cat 1, or they'll get all 200 points pretty quickly. All of this is ok! Don't get so hung up on the category system and what a single word "means".

    No hang up, which is why I put the smile there on the original post. You like the system, I think its flawed and could be improved. We will have to agree to disagree. Good luck in moving to 1st cat.
  • lyn1
    lyn1 Posts: 261
    Tom Butcher wrote:
    I think that's right - the points system is just a rough way of dividing riders by ability and to give your average punter something to aim for.

    One thing is for sure - there aren't too many Elite and First cats - if there were any fewer it'd mean even fewer races for those at that level. If ever all these crits did have their points allocation reduced the amount of points to get a first or elite licence would have to be similarly reduced just to keep the numbers of E1 licence holders up.

    Fair point Tom, but making it easy for guys to get to a category they cannot handle once they get there, can't be the correct solution in the long term as races will then be unbalanced, which defeats the object of the process anyway. Interestingly I saw a post on another forum complaining about guys in UCI teams (E's) cleaning up and demoralising other E, 1's and suggestions that they should be banned from that region's races. Part of a more complex set of issues and maybe a need for a rethink by BC of the whole system.
  • ju5t1n
    ju5t1n Posts: 2,028
    Does anyone know what the distribution of riders actually is among the 5 categories? Does BC publish this info?
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    ju5t1n wrote:
    Does anyone know what the distribution of riders actually is among the 5 categories? Does BC publish this info?

    They sent it out to the club reps recently:
    Total 17,531
    E 199
    1st 251
    2nd 1231
    3rd 3744
    4th 6217
    A 1320
    B 1307
    C 1257
    D 1069
    E 911
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • displacedaussie
    displacedaussie Posts: 356
    lyn1 wrote:
    No hang up, which is why I put the smile there on the original post. You like the system, I think its flawed and could be improved. We will have to agree to disagree. Good luck in moving to 1st cat.

    Ok, that's fair. :)

    And thank you. My first season of racing has resembled the original subject of this thread, so I have no idea how it's going to go next year. Whatever happens, I'm pretty sure it's going to hurt. I can't wait. :D
  • ju5t1n
    ju5t1n Posts: 2,028
    jibberjim wrote:
    ju5t1n wrote:
    Does anyone know what the distribution of riders actually is among the 5 categories? Does BC publish this info?

    They sent it out to the club reps recently:
    Total 17,531
    E 199
    1st 251
    2nd 1231
    3rd 3744
    4th 6217
    A 1320
    B 1307
    C 1257
    D 1069
    E 911
    Thanks, I think that adds some useful context, and more importantly means that as a half decent 2nd Cat I’m probably in the top 1000 in the UK. Time to phone my mum!
  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    The joy of participating in a minority sport eh? :D

    Anyway, you can see how many there are if you go to the BC site and search by category.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • DavidJB
    DavidJB Posts: 2,019
    okgo wrote:
    The joy of participating in a minority sport eh? :D

    Anyway, you can see how many there are if you go to the BC site and search by category.

    The BC website is god awful, the ranking system leaves a lot to be desired and why the hell can't I see all riders in a team unless I go through some convoluted process to see the riders in a team that have scored national points but all the others are missing.
  • ju5t1n
    ju5t1n Posts: 2,028
    okgo wrote:
    The joy of participating in a minority sport eh? :D

    Anyway, you can see how many there are if you go to the BC site and search by category.
    I think only those who've scored points are listed
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    ju5t1n wrote:
    Thanks, I think that adds some useful context, and more importantly means that as a half decent 2nd Cat I’m probably in the top 1000 in the UK. Time to phone my mum!

    With it being all licence holders issued by BC, not just GBR ones, then you could be even higher - and remember it includes women too taking some of those E/1 spots... You might be able to convince people you're even higher, how much does your mum check your boasts?
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • ju5t1n
    ju5t1n Posts: 2,028
    She has a masters degree in computer science – which is not enough to navigate BC’s website
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    My club is ranked 21st nationally (way above those losers at Team Sky and top ranked club from Welsh region) but 26th regionally (didn't even know there were 26 clubs in Wales). I guess this is mainly down to the success of the women's team in national series races.
  • ju5t1n
    ju5t1n Posts: 2,028
    Here's another one. Looks like this guy has done 4th to Elite this season too...

    http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/points ... &year=2012

    I wonder whether his winnings covered all those race entry fees?
  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    Doubt it.

    I raced with him at Hillingdon and he looked strong then, he won his first couple of races, sadly that is where our similarities ended as he continued to get stronger and stronger.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • ju5t1n
    ju5t1n Posts: 2,028
    okgo wrote:
    Doubt it.

    I raced with him at Hillingdon and he looked strong then, he won his first couple of races, sadly that is where our similarities ended as he continued to get stronger and stronger.
    You've done well mate. These guys are exceptional. You only get one a year. Except this year, when we got 2 :D:D

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