4th Cat to 2nd Cat in one season

chambers_a3

Hi guys,

I recently got enough points to advance from 4th to 3rd to 2nd cat in one season, well at least I thought I did.

I got to 42 points about 3 weeks ago and was informed by many people that I have now obtained my 2nd cat license which is great. i kept checking british cycling to wait for the results to come up so I could "officially" be a 2nd cat.

The results came up but my 2nd cat didn't, I waited a while but then decided to contact British cycling and they told me that I only had 32 points and 10 of them were "used up" to obtain my 3rd cat license.

But from what I understand and many other people have told me, you can rank up from 4th cat to 2nd cat in one season with 40 points or more. I even checked british cyclings categories and classifications page and that states that you can.

This is directly from their website -

3rd Category: Any junior or senior licence holder who has gained at least 10 but less than 40 points whilst holding a 4th category licence. Note: Riders are never downgraded to 4th category once a 3rd category licence has been achieved.

From what I can understand from that if I have gained between 10 and 39 points I will still be a 3rd cat but any more I will rank up to a 2nd cat. Can anybody shed any light on this?

Thanks alot

amaferanga

Whatever the BC website says (and it can be a little woolly), to go from 4th Cat to 2nd Cat in a season you need to score a total of 50 points.

Still time for you yet though....

oldwelshman

Its simple, you need 10 to go from 4th to third, then 40 from third to second, so from fourth to second 50.
Any points over 10 gained whilst you were a 4th are invalid, only points gained whilst racing as a third count towards second.

2nd Category: Any junior or senior licence holder who has gained 40 points during any one season whilst holding a 3rd category licence. To retain a 2nd category licence for the following season, a rider must obtain at least 25 points in events open to that category of rider.

amaferanga

oldwelshman wrote:

Its simple, you need 10 to go from 4th to third, then 40 from third to second, so from fourth to second 50.
Any points over 10 gained whilst you were a 4th are invalid, only points gained whilst racing as a third count towards second.

2nd Category: Any junior or senior licence holder who has gained 40 points during any one season whilst holding a 3rd category licence. To retain a 2nd category licence for the following season, a rider must obtain at least 25 points in events open to that category of rider.

I don't think that's right. When I went from 4th to 3rd I carried over a point which then counted as a 3rd Cat point.

acidstrato

any points over the 10 while you are still a 4th are carried over.

i have 8 on my 3rd cat license. yet i've not placed in any races as a 3rd cat...so go figure.
I have 8 because i had 8 on my 4th...then i won an Regional C+ race, got 10points... 2 got me the 3rd cat and 8 were carried over..

its not rocket science

oldwelshman

acidstrato wrote:

any points over the 10 while you are still a 4th are carried over.

i have 8 on my 3rd cat license. yet i've not placed in any races as a 3rd cat...so go figure.
I have 8 because i had 8 on my 4th...then i won an Regional C+ race, got 10points... 2 got me the 3rd cat and 8 were carried over..

its not rocket science

Depends what race you got them in. If it was a 3/4 then they are valid, if you pre entered a 4th cat race and already had 10 points and now a 3rd cat, you still race the 4th cat race , any points in the 4th cat race then are not awarded.
If you now get 40 points, then any points gained in a 3/4 race will not be awarded either.
This happened to me.

Tom Butcher

I've known them carry points gained in 4th cat races over onto a 3rd cat licence - if you were already a third when you started the 4th cat race you are correct that any points gained wont be credited to you - but in the situation the two posters describe above they will be - at least that was certainly how things worked 3-4 years ago.

Monty Dog

I've seen someone go from novice to Elites in a season - keep at it!

LeicesterLad

Monty Dog wrote:

I've seen someone go from novice to Elites in a season - keep at it!

Yes, that was one of my better seasons...

gsk82

i've always read it as "points gained in third catagorie races". meaning that points from fourth cat only races don't carry over, but if you got them in 3/4 or 2/3/4 races they would carry over.

Tom Butcher

That'd make sense but they carried points from a 4ths race over for me and I've known them do it for others too. Not to say they still do but I'm only going back a few years.

amaferanga

The race where I got upgraded from 4th to 3rd Cat was a 4th only race and my extra point was carried over to my 3rd Cat licence.

Zachariah

Monty Dog wrote:

I've seen someone go from novice to Elites in a season - keep at it!

Blimey - apart from the amazing physical ability, that guy (I assume it was a guy and not a gal, because I'm a sexist pig) must have been racing almost every other night to get the points needed! Even if you won every time, that's 550 points in total - quite an achievement.

Also, help me out on interpreting the following (from the BC site):

Any rider who:
- has gained 300 points during the previous season whilst holding an elite or 1st category licence,

Which implies you can't actually be officially 'Elite' until the next season. Or am I reading it wrong?

acidstrato

oldwelshman wrote:

acidstrato wrote:

any points over the 10 while you are still a 4th are carried over.

i have 8 on my 3rd cat license. yet i've not placed in any races as a 3rd cat...so go figure.
I have 8 because i had 8 on my 4th...then i won an Regional C+ race, got 10points... 2 got me the 3rd cat and 8 were carried over..

its not rocket science

Depends what race you got them in. If it was a 3/4 then they are valid, if you pre entered a 4th cat race and already had 10 points and now a 3rd cat, you still race the 4th cat race , any points in the 4th cat race then are not awarded.
If you now get 40 points, then any points gained in a 3/4 race will not be awarded either.
This happened to me.

maybe there was a rule change in recent years?
excess points beyond the first 10 are carried over regardless of the race category aslong as its the correct category at that time, and in my case this is what happened.




re: the previous Post, you have to earn 300points simply to keep the elite license for the next season, otherwise you drop down.

Toks

Zachariah wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

I've seen someone go from novice to Elites in a season - keep at it!

Blimey - apart from the amazing physical ability, that guy (I assume it was a guy and not a gal, because I'm a sexist pig) must have been racing almost every other night to get the points needed! Even if you won every time, that's 550 points in total - quite an achievement.

Mmm...4th cat to Elite?; I'm sure Tim Elverson Felt-Colbornes RT achieved this a a few years ago :twisted:

trickydisco

Mmm...4th cat to Elite?; I'm sure Tim Elverson Felt-Colbornes RT achieved this a a few years ago

sorry dredging this up again. Local Bristol Road club rider is 5 points off his elite licence and started 4th cat this season. Certainly very impressive!

Toks

Nice...well at least tell us his name then?

Mike39496

Toks wrote:

Nice...well at least tell us his name then?

Nick Noble from looking at the BC rankings. No races before this year and now an elite cat with 7 points, very very impressive. http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/points ... r=2012&d=4

trickydisco

Mike39496 wrote:

Toks wrote:

Nice...well at least tell us his name then?

Nick Noble from looking at the BC rankings. No races before this year and now an elite cat with 7 points, very very impressive. http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/points ... r=2012&d=4

Yep. sorry. that's the fella

Top bloke

jibberjim

trickydisco wrote:

Mike39496 wrote:

Toks wrote:

Nice...well at least tell us his name then?

Nick Noble from looking at the BC rankings. No races before this year and now an elite cat with 7 points, very very impressive. http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/points ... r=2012&d=4

Yep. sorry. that's the fella

Top bloke

Never should've been a 4th cat though as he's been 1st (when there was no Elite) before? Presumably just couldn't be arsed to chase BC for the sake of 1 race?

DavidJB

I have done this very thing.

You need 50 points overall to move up.

displacedaussie

jibberjim wrote:

Never should've been a 4th cat though as he's been 1st (when there was no Elite) before? Presumably just couldn't be arsed to chase BC for the sake of 1 race?

BC don't have results going back to when Nick last raced, so 4th Cat was the only licence they'd give him. It's been the same for a few other people I've talked to who started again recently but haven't raced in the last 13/14 years.

jibberjim

displacedaussie wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

Never should've been a 4th cat though as he's been 1st (when there was no Elite) before? Presumably just couldn't be arsed to chase BC for the sake of 1 race?

BC don't have results going back to when Nick last raced, so 4th Cat was the only licence they'd give him. It's been the same for a few other people I've talked to who started again recently but haven't raced in the last 13/14 years.

I know they don't have it in the computer so it's not automatic, but everyone I know in simiar situation or even only having raced at a lower standard who's phoned up and gave a convincing case have come in as 3rd cat as they should. As I say it takes a phone call.

trickydisco

Who cares? It's 10 points

Impressive in my book. Even if he raced before.

4th cat..3rd cat the difference is 10 points...my difference is that I had'nt cycled for 20 years, smoked and I'm 46

Eleven months ago I went on my first bike ride for 20 years.....8 months ago I rode my first 4th Cat race..... 4 months ago I gave up smoking....today I'm an ELITE cyclist.

sunburntknees

Mike39496 wrote:

Toks wrote:

Nice...well at least tell us his name then?

Nick Noble from looking at the BC rankings. No races before this year and now an elite cat with 7 points, very very impressive. http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/points ... r=2012&d=4

How was he able to ride a 3/4 and an E/1/2 on the same day (4/4/12)?

jibberjim

sunburntknees wrote:

How was he able to ride a 3/4 and an E/1/2 on the same day (4/4/12)?

It's a Regional C+ race, means all cats are actually allowed to enter, the restrictions and splitting are really just advertising by the organiser on who they're going to accept. The organiser really just chose to accept certain 3's. That's within the regulations. It would not be within the reg's for a National A race for example.

Pross

jibberjim wrote:

displacedaussie wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

Never should've been a 4th cat though as he's been 1st (when there was no Elite) before? Presumably just couldn't be arsed to chase BC for the sake of 1 race?

BC don't have results going back to when Nick last raced, so 4th Cat was the only licence they'd give him. It's been the same for a few other people I've talked to who started again recently but haven't raced in the last 13/14 years.

I know they don't have it in the computer so it's not automatic, but everyone I know in simiar situation or even only having raced at a lower standard who's phoned up and gave a convincing case have come in as 3rd cat as they should. As I say it takes a phone call.

Might give that a go then. I was a 3rd cat years ago before the 4th cat was introduced and when you only got points for first 6 places (I never got any points though). That said, I would like to earn a 3rd cat licence as one of my targets for next year.

Tom Dean

I don't see why they would upgrade you if you never scored points at the old 3rd cat.

oldwelshman

Just race, if your good enough points will come, if not then just race where you are until you get better.

lyn1

trickydisco wrote:

Who cares? It's 10 points

Impressive in my book. Even if he raced before.

4th cat..3rd cat the difference is 10 points...my difference is that I had'nt cycled for 20 years, smoked and I'm 46

Eleven months ago I went on my first bike ride for 20 years.....8 months ago I rode my first 4th Cat race..... 4 months ago I gave up smoking....today I'm an ELITE cyclist.[/quote]

Big difference between an Elite license holder and an Elite Cyclist as can be seen in any Tour Series race where the Elite license holders get dropped after a few laps by the Elite cyclists or in Premier where the license holders go off the back on the first climb. Getting the license is the easy part, especially if it comes from shed loads of over rewarded Nat B or 10x round the village green chippers. The hard part is being competitive in "proper" races once you get there! (a general point..not aimed at anyone specific)

DavidJB

lyn1 wrote:

trickydisco wrote:

Who cares? It's 10 points

Impressive in my book. Even if he raced before.

4th cat..3rd cat the difference is 10 points...my difference is that I had'nt cycled for 20 years, smoked and I'm 46

Eleven months ago I went on my first bike ride for 20 years.....8 months ago I rode my first 4th Cat race..... 4 months ago I gave up smoking....today I'm an ELITE cyclist.[/quote]

Big difference between an Elite license holder and an Elite Cyclist as can be seen in any Tour Series race where the Elite license holders get dropped after a few laps by the Elite cyclists or in Premier where the license holders go off the back on the first climb. Getting the license is the easy part, especially if it comes from shed loads of over rewarded Nat B or 10x round the village green chippers. The hard part is being competitive in "proper" races once you get there! (a general point..not aimed at anyone specific)

Yeah getting elite is soooo easy :roll: