Why are the flats so hard?
jame58rown
Posts: 263
Where I live there isn't much flat road, but when there is I find it harder to push myself on the flats than I do on the hills, I just feel like I have no power and go slowly, then on the hills although I'm going slower I feel like I'm doing OK and powering up them. Why is this? Is it a mental thing?
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This is exactly how I feel. I'm not a great climber, but I seem to be able to sustain an effort on a long hill for a lot longer than on the flat.
I was wondering about the mental thing, too. Maybe you have to keep pedalling on a hill whereas you can freewheel for a bit on the flats if you want. I hope someone explains it to you so I can "steal" your info ;-)0 -
if you both live in very hilly areas it could be an inertia thing (i think)0
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I can't go for more than a couple of miles before the hills start. What do you mean with the inertia thing? I certainly get more satisfaction climbing than I do on the flat and am sure that I feel more motivated riding up a 10km hill than I do riding on the flat for 10km: I would rather win a mountain stage of the Tour than a time trial (both are quite unlikely). That could explain some subliminal reason.
Hope you don't think I'm hijacking your thread, James.0 -
Haha, hijack away :') you're asking the same questions I would, just saving me the trouble hehe
Do you think the fact I weigh 58kg has anything to do with it?0 -
jame58rown wrote:Haha, hijack away :') you're asking the same questions I would, just saving me the trouble hehe
Do you think the fact I weigh 58kg has anything to do with it?
This is where the similarites end. You can add another 20kg (if I breathe in :lol ) on for me.
Thanks for letting me do your typing for you 0 -
Unless there is a physical reason why you can't push on the flat, which is unlikely if you can push uphill, then it must be mental.
FTR, I have no trouble pushing on the flat.0 -
I live in the Cairngorms and have the same problem. I can climb well but on the flat I struggle with higher speeds. I'd say my average on the flat in around 22-23mph but I feel I could go faster and I'm not out of breath much. I think in my case it's a cadence problem, I struggle above 75-80rpm and run out of power. Even on longish slight downhills I struggle to get above 27-28.http://www.strathspey.co.uk - Quality Binoculars at a Sensible Price.
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Marin Mount Vision (1997), Edinburgh Country tourer, 3 cats!0 -
unixnerd wrote:I live in the Cairngorms and have the same problem. I can climb well but on the flat I struggle with higher speeds. I'd say my average on the flat in around 22-23mph but I feel I could go faster and I'm not out of breath much. I think in my case it's a cadence problem, I struggle above 75-80rpm and run out of power. Even on longish slight downhills I struggle to get above 27-28.
This is pretty much like me (although on the flat I find it hard to get over ~18mph :oops: )
I can keep 10mph up on ~7% gradient for a 5km climb though...(speed dropping slightly on hairpins, rising slightly on straighter bits)0 -
When you are climbing the biggest resistance you face is your weight - on the flat then it is more about aerodynamics and what position your body is on the bike is going to have proportionally a bigger impact than when climbing0
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the inertia thing I was referring to is that some people find it hard to push when the bike is going slowly essentially (I am not a scientist, can't quite explain it). The opposite of what happens in a peleton, which is why some pros do motor training to simulate high inertia.
This helps explain why some people perform better on the turbo than on the road. I guess if you have always been doing lots of hilly rides you would get used to this kind of riding.
Another thing it could be is position on the bike, many people slide back in the saddle and sit up a bit more which engages the glutes, if you have strong glutes you will be powerful in this position.
The other things is power:weight and power:CdA. If you are light (58kg seems pretty light) it is easier to have a higher power to weight ratio but generally it is harder to have a good power:CdA (this is a fairly large generalisation but you get the idea).
And psychology (which someone mentioned above) since there is a definite reward/goal/end of a hill it might be easier to push, have any of you guys done a timetrial? I guess this would give you a motive to really push to the line.
Erm, those would be my guesses anyway. :P0 -
If you can climb ok then what you need to do is train for the flat, right. You don't have enough flats to train on. So, the nearest you are going to get to that state is a Turbo. Learn how to ride that and you should get over the "flat feeling". Powering along on the flat can be very painful and you have to have the mind to do it. Being comfortably sat on the "rivet" is what it's all about. Think, I want to break these cranks. Get a red mist flowing across your eyes. Love the feeling. That's what riding fast on the flat is about.
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If you want to be a strong rider you have to do strong things.
However if you train like a cart horse you'll race like one.0 -
I'm the same, and I'd really like to hear a good explanation. It even happens on the tacx fortius indoor trainer, where I can put out a higher average wattage over 30 mins on a simulated climb than on a simulated flat course, even although the bike is flat and gravity doesn't enter into it (of course resistance is higher on the simulated climbs and the gears selected are different).0
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Get as much of yourself as you can out of the wind, use big gears, stop thinking about it so much.0
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If you never did hills you'd probably be crap at them. Same goes for riding on flat roads.More problems but still living....0
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If you never did hills you'd probably be crap at them. Same goes for riding on flat roads.
I agree with this. I like in Cumbria and have to look hard to find flat roads. I too have a perception that I can go harder on hills than on the flat.
Last year I deliberately spent time seeking out and riding on flat roads and found that my performance improved.
On the one hand it makes sense - to ride fast on the flat you need to train on the flat.
On the other hand it seems strange - why can't I transfer uphill performance to the flat?
Anyway, I guess your answer is either to enjoy the riding you do and not worry about the flats or to seek flat roads out and train on them.0 -
I recently got a HR monitor & on de flat was reading 6.2 which is exploding territory but on de hills was 4.7 ish. There was a fair head wind but was surprised.0
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I think it maybe partly my weight - but I really like trying to wind it up on the flat and then keep it there.
I only started on a roadbike in November and I don't really do very many goals but many of my achievements that have registered have been about speed on the flat. Hitting 20 mph, averaging 20 for a mile, averaging 20 over several consecutive miles, hitting 28 mph (may have been wind-assisted!) have all brought a sense of satisfaction.
I do a circular course which is fairly flat, and comes in at just under 30 miles from home; covering 2 junctions, 6 roundabouts and about 4 sets of traffic lights, and one of my main target is to average 20mph moving speed, door-to-door.
I commute 2 miles, with about 350 feet of climb, on an mtb and it has definitely got better, but I still don't have the same enthusiasm for hills.0 -
Theoretically you should try and maintain the same effort (watts) on all terrains but consider this.
On flats speed is higher and wind resistance is higher. the effect of high wind resistance is exponential. A big effort is required to gain a little speed. Cadence should be the same on hills as flats, suitable gear choice permitting, but often RPM is lower on flats meaning torque is higher to maintain the same watts. If you like riding on the flat then probably you prefer absolute speed and don't miind trying to ride slightly aero.
On hills speed is lower and wind resistance is relatively low. Hence drafting has little effects. The effect of high wind resistance is neglible at low speeds and near linear at moderate speeds. A moderate effort is required to gain moderate speed (its linear although obviously you are fighting gavity). Hence trying hard gives more returns in terms of speed gained. Trying harder on hills and conserving downhill will give a higher average speed for a ride than the other way round.If you like riding on hills then you probably like a challege (as there is always the crest to aim for), you may not like wind or aero position and you probably don't mind high rpm, and you probably are a lighter rider (helping against gravity)
Btw a good wind or fluid trainer will simulate flats vs hills with an exponential (well no-linear) increase in resistance to go faster. A mag turbo trainer will trend to give a linear effect.0 -
jame58rown wrote:Haha, hijack away :') you're asking the same questions I would, just saving me the trouble hehe
Do you think the fact I weigh 58kg has anything to do with it?
58kg???! Do you people just not eat?! How tall are you?Do not write below this line. Office use only.0 -
cyco2 wrote:If you can climb ok then what you need to do is train for the flat, right. You don't have enough flats to train on. So, the nearest you are going to get to that state is a Turbo.
The problem with the turbo is that it's a low inertia situation, much similar to a hill than racing along on the flat.Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
Is it that the cadence or speed of leg action is slower on a climb, so may suit your physiology better?0
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In contrast to the other guys asking here I'm a twiddler. I'm much happier spinning, on the flats and on hills. I do low cadence intervals in a high gear to improve my strength but really only to improve my climbing. There's a 13 km long hill here which has an average of 6%. I can get up it in about 45 minutes which for me isn't bad going. I couldn't imagine being able to push a big gear around for so long. But surely the slope would mean that if I was pushing a bigger gear on the flat I would be using the same kind of power? I find this all a bit confusing.0
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Headhuunter wrote:58kg???! Do you people just not eat?! How tall are you?
I did do 60km yesterday on nothing but a flapjack :P
I'm 5ft9/10 I don't think I look unhealthy, sunken chest perhaps this was me a few weeks ago:
I'm just in the healthy weight range in the BMI table, but I do get some funny looks with regards to my weight. :P0 -
jame58rown wrote:Headhuunter wrote:58kg???! Do you people just not eat?! How tall are you?
I did do 60km yesterday on nothing but a flapjack :P
I'm 5ft9/10 I don't think I look unhealthy, sunken chest perhaps this was me a few weeks ago:
I'm just in the healthy weight range in the BMI table, but I do get some funny looks with regards to my weight. :P
Are you trying to pull women here in the forum? 0 -
neilo23 wrote:jame58rown wrote:Headhuunter wrote:58kg???! Do you people just not eat?! How tall are you?
I did do 60km yesterday on nothing but a flapjack :P
I'm 5ft9/10 I don't think I look unhealthy, sunken chest perhaps this was me a few weeks ago:
I'm just in the healthy weight range in the BMI table, but I do get some funny looks with regards to my weight. :P
Are you trying to pull women here in the forum?
Hehe...women don't like skinny buggers :P 0 -
jame58rown wrote:neilo23 wrote:jame58rown wrote:Headhuunter wrote:58kg???! Do you people just not eat?! How tall are you?
I did do 60km yesterday on nothing but a flapjack :P
I'm 5ft9/10 I don't think I look unhealthy, sunken chest perhaps this was me a few weeks ago:
I'm just in the healthy weight range in the BMI table, but I do get some funny looks with regards to my weight. :P
Are you trying to pull women here in the forum?
Hehe...women don't like skinny buggers :P
Maybe that explains why I've been single since Christmas. You're turning into my Agony Aunt :-D0 -
neilo23 wrote:Maybe that explains why I've been single since Christmas. You're turning into my Agony Aunt :-D
Hehe...I've been singe since ummmm....forever, girlfriends elude me :P Don't take my advice on women
Wait, we're going off topic.... ;-P0 -
jame58rown wrote:neilo23 wrote:Maybe that explains why I've been single since Christmas. You're turning into my Agony Aunt :-D
Hehe...I've been singe since ummmm....forever, girlfriends elude me :P Don't take my advice on women
Wait, we're going off topic.... ;-P
As if that could happen here! Maybe cycling fast on the flat would impress them.
I get the general impression that we'll have to practise. See, back on topic ;-)0
