Any London left?
Comments
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dhope wrote:
I no what you mean, but sometimes you just have to let it slide.FCN 3: Raleigh Record Ace fixie-to be resurrected sometime in the future
FCN 4: Planet X Schmaffenschmack 2- workhorse
FCN 9: B Twin Vitamin - winter commuter/loan bike for trainees
I'm hungry. I'm always hungry!0 -
pops in - still too much testosterone in here - heads back out.
ITB - new thread required0 -
GitEKE_38BPM wrote:0 -
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Sewinman wrote:
Was just going to post that.
Seems to have gone viral.
An interesting take from a more right-wing perspective. Seems to be a more considered response than the 'hang 'em & flog 'em' response so far.
Was listening to a podcast on it last night. The salient point for me, beyond enjoying hearing a reasonable discussion without much hyperbole, was a comment on the nature of the debate in England about both the riots and the problem with anti-social youths generally.
The speaker felt that the debate was paralysed by a compulsion to treat any attempt at an explanation as to why this occurs is taken as an attempt to 'explain away' the actions.
He cites the newsnight moment between Gove and Harmon. Harmon tip toed into the "what deep lying issues caused this" area (though admittedly, citing stuff that wasn't relevant and a too transparently partisan) and as soon as she did Gove absolutely bellowed at her, claiming she was an apologist for criminality - which in all sincerity I doubt she was.
Ultimately, if there is a solution to be had, then this paralysis of debate and discussion needs to be overcome so that the debate can occur dispassionately and objectively and lead to some kind of resolution.0 -
Good, looks like 6 months plus for a lot of the looters / rioters then!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14485592
From court Sarah Bell
BBC News
A 17-year-old aspiring dancer who handed herself in after seeing her picture in a newspaper was among the defendants at a busy, yet efficient, Westminster Magistrates' Court.
An estate agent and students studying accountancy, journalism and engineering faced the district judge on charges arising from the riots.
The fate of an 18-year-old man who bought sports clothes which had been stolen from JD Sports in Clapham illustrated how seriously these offenders were being treated.
Ordinarily punished by a fine or community service, he was remanded in custody to face the heavier prison sentences of the crown court.
"Given the seriousness of the circumstances" was the repeated refrain of the district judge as she refused bail and sent each defendant to the crown court.
She said her power, to send people to jail for six months, was not enough.--
Chris
Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/50 -
Sewinman wrote:
A sort of ''while the fat cat's away the sewer rats will play'' conclusion? That seems reasonable considering the words ''we're all in this together'' actually turned out to mean ''we're all out of this together.'' When you consider the absolute absence of authority it's not really that surprising that a fair few people appear to have thought it was crime carnival week.0 -
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Sketchley wrote:mybreakfastconsisted wrote:Iinteresting stats here:
The average rioter was young, male, and had travelled from another postcode.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14489984
Cameron came out with a load of old cobblers in the HOC about stopping benefits and evicting rioters who are council tenants.
If an employed rioter doesn't have their wages docked we have a two-tier justice system where those on benefits receive a harsher punishment. This is just tory posturing, there will be no benefit dockings or evictions.
No you miss the point. If an employer wants to continue to pay someone who has been rioting then that's up to them, they are probably perfectly withing their rights to sack them for bringing the company in to disrepute. Stopping benefits is about the state / tax payer not paying them. Either way go to prison, loose benefits, go to prison loose job.
If will be interesting to see what happens to that teaching assistant, I can't see him being allowed to continue with primary kids following conviction for looting. CRB check being what they are these days.
Not a two tier system at all really. However stopping benefits of looters may end up being counter productive, where are they going to live and what will they eat......
... go to school, learn to spell "lose"...
Agree with last paragraph, if you kick people out of the sink estates where do you put them (other than prison)? Would be more productive to engage them in enforced manual labour, community service with a bit more backbone. All those scrotes doing hard labour could clean up a lot of this country.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Sewinman wrote:
Was just going to post that.
Seems to have gone viral.
An interesting take from a more right-wing perspective. Seems to be a more considered response than the 'hang 'em & flog 'em' response so far.
Was listening to a podcast on it last night. The salient point for me, beyond enjoying hearing a reasonable discussion without much hyperbole, was a comment on the nature of the debate in England about both the riots and the problem with anti-social youths generally.
The point was that the speaker felt that the debate was paralysed by a compulsion to treat any attempt at an explanation as to why this occurs is taken as an attempt to 'explain away' the actions.
He cites the newsnight moment between Gove and Harmon. Harmon tip toed into the "what deep lying issues caused this" area (though admittedly, citing stuff that wasn't relevant and a too transparently partisan) and as soon as she did Gove absolutely bellowed at her, claiming she was an apologist for criminality - which in all sincerity I doubt she was.
Ultimately, if there is a solution to be had, then this paralysis of debate and discussion needs to be overcome so that the debate can occur dispassionately and objectively and lead to some kind of resolution.
Agreed, I think the paralysis of debate is because it is far easier to brand people 'evil, thugs, hooligans' than to have to consider what might be behind their actions and what that means for society in general. Locking people up will restore order and make us all revel in sense of pompous and gleeful vengeance, but it won't address what led to this behaviour.0 -
Just been directed to this in a Brixton-based magazine/youth project. I hope he's wrong and his generation don't get written off.
http://beta.live-magazine.co.uk/2011/08/a-new-doomed-generation-voiceofyouth/
It's struck me that it was not insignificant that this happened during the school holidays, and that some have described an almost party-like atmosphere to some of the looting. I'm sure at least some were just doing it for the buzz.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
BigMat wrote:Sketchley wrote:mybreakfastconsisted wrote:Iinteresting stats here:
The average rioter was young, male, and had travelled from another postcode.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14489984
Cameron came out with a load of old cobblers in the HOC about stopping benefits and evicting rioters who are council tenants.
If an employed rioter doesn't have their wages docked we have a two-tier justice system where those on benefits receive a harsher punishment. This is just tory posturing, there will be no benefit dockings or evictions.
No you miss the point. If an employer wants to continue to pay someone who has been rioting then that's up to them, they are probably perfectly withing their rights to sack them for bringing the company in to disrepute. Stopping benefits is about the state / tax payer not paying them. Either way go to prison, loose benefits, go to prison loose job.
If will be interesting to see what happens to that teaching assistant, I can't see him being allowed to continue with primary kids following conviction for looting. CRB check being what they are these days.
Not a two tier system at all really. However stopping benefits of looters may end up being counter productive, where are they going to live and what will they eat......
... go to school, learn to spell "lose"...
Agree with last paragraph, if you kick people out of the sink estates where do you put them (other than prison)? Would be more productive to engage them in enforced manual labour, community service with a bit more backbone. All those scrotes doing hard labour could clean up a lot of this country.
Yes yes yes, you still got my point so why do this? p.s. you might want to go and read the grammar nazi thread from a few month ago. Explains some of the problems I have with dyslexia. Needless to say it's not a lack of education or lazyness that causes me to miss stuff like this. Still you wouldn't be interested in that would you as it's far to easy to just pre judge and insult someone.--
Chris
Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/50 -
Coach H wrote:
Tupac is just the kind of role model these kids don't need! Why is Martin Luther King Jr not such a powerful role model any more? 'I have a dream.....' is one of the most inspiring oratories ever and inspiring to all creeds.
Which Tupac? The Gangsta rapper spitting at the camera. Tupac the poet who penned Rose that grew from concrete. Or Tupac the actor (he went to stage school as a kid) and was being touted as an eventual oscar winner.
Dr King was a little before my time. Even then I prefer Malcolm X because he hated but then saw the light and spent his closing days denouncing the hatred he helped spread thus demonstrating that a man can grow. And that meaningful because I would argue that there is an element in the 'black identity' the culture that you need to overcome - that notion is ever present throughout all facets of the culture music, art, films, folklore etc - so therefore a story about overcoming adversity whether imposed upon externally or self imposed resonates more so.
For reasons I cannot explain I just can't get behind Obama."Your black, you could be the de-facto leader of the western world" is a pretty powerful message at the moment if people want to look for positive messages.From a white, liberal, middle class perspective, I don't see Trident as promoting a negative image of black people, I see it as an attempt to tackle a specific type of crime that was affecting a particular community, similar to, say, a particular task force being set up to deal with homophobic attacks. Having said this, I'm not so naive as to think that some people take the existence of Trident as confirmation of their racist views.
The bit in bold I think is key in your looking at the World with open eyes.
There are those who see black people - example: like the majority of rioters in Clapham; - and (i) attempt to make it a race issue and (ii) that is a representation of all the rioters across the UK. It wasn't. My reluctance to engage in the race debate about the riots was that largely it was unfair to do so. The riots weren't about race and the criminals weren't all black.
But going back to the message "black on black gun crime" - I have a real issue with it. I've tried to explain it a number of ways. I fear I will only end up repeating myself. But as a black person I see it as counterproductive in terms of integrating black communities into the larger British society. People perceive the black community as disfunctional and are reluctant to engage with it. Young black folk grow up believing that theis is a disfunctional community seperated from the larger British community and will react in kind.
A Dr said of the riots that most of the rioters have no investment in or need to conform to societies norms. For them rioting became a justifiable possibility, non-conformity and rebellions or rebellious nature results from segregating people from society.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD.
Have a listen to the guardian focus podcast on the riots.
They have a guy there from Tottenham. I forget who, but as a result, the discussion sees whether a line can be drawn from the '85 riots to today, and goes into the racial element that played out in Tottenham.
By the sounds of it, you'd be very interested in that bit, and what he has to say.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:DonDaddyD.
Have a listen to the guardian focus podcast on the riots.
They have a guy there from Tottenham. I forget who, but as a result, the discussion sees whether a line can be drawn from the '85 riots to today, and goes into the racial element that played out in Tottenham.
By the sounds of it, you'd be very interested in that bit, and what he has to say.
I view the 85 and recent riots that happened in Tottenham as different (in terms of cause and motivation) from those that spread across the rest of the Country.
But I will give the podcast a listen.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
In case anyone is interesting, this youtube channel has some unbelievable footage from the riots.
A few guys seem to have taken it upon themselves to film what's going on - by the looks of it, at some risk.
The MacDonald's clip is particularly frightening.
http://www.youtube.com/user/worldurbanlive0 -
I saw this today and thought of this thread. It's the Met Police's flickr page of riot perps. A proper mixed bunch!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/metropolitanpolice/Ben
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