New to racing - need avg speed ideas

carbon337

I'm in a local cycling club but fancy giving some beginner racing a go.

I'm in Northumberland so there isnt loads going on looking at the BC site. I think I'm of an ok beginner standard riding at the front on training rides.

Ideally id like to do a go race or 4th cat but what kind of average speeds are you talking for say top half finishes?

Obviously it is dependent on route etc.

I noticed a race on Sunday the GS Metro race that is 4th cat but it comes a bit soon for me i think.

danowat

25mph +/- a bit I reckon

jibberjim

Average speeds are completely irrelevant in races. Don't even think about it. It's got nothing to do with how good you are.

Try it.

Pseudonym

I wouldn't get hung up on avge speeds - the speed you can/can't maintain when out on your own is largely irrelevant when racing in a bunch.

Most of the races I do tend to run out at about 23-25 average, but I'm lucky if I can average 19mph on most of my training rides, with the terrain I train on.

Best way is to line up - at least then you will know how your fitness compares....

(edit - Jim beat me to it)

Herbsman

Mean, mode or median?

carbon337

mode

freehub

Some races are hard at 23mph average, whilst some races are easy at 26mph average.

If you sit on the front all the way round averaging 21mph it'll be harder than sitting in at 26mph average.

danowat

freehub wrote:

whilst some races are easy at 26mph average.

If a race is easy, you ain't trying hard enough!

Herbsman

danowat wrote:

freehub wrote:

whilst some races are easy at 26mph average.

If a race is easy, you ain't trying hard enough!

In my limited experience, if you are finding a race easy then you can win with a well-timed solo break away. Or even a badly timed one. That involves trying hard enough though.

rayhicks

In my expoerience so far it is all about staying with the group. I could be a good idea to change the display on your bike computer to show cadence and HR which will help you focus on the important factors. Try not to be the last rider stay in the last 3rd and good luck.

I train at 19 mph on a solo ride though the average race speed will be totally random. An example of this is on a Thursday training ride over 30 mins I averaged 20.1 mph. fairly easy course. Then went to a crit on the saturday and the average was only 22. This was due to strong head winds and everyone looking to tuck in.

Keep your powder dry for as long as you can and then go for it when you think its right. One one way to learn and that is by doing it.

ju5t1n

Herbsman wrote:

if you are finding a race easy then you can win...

Very true...

In my experience… if you take an average field of 80: ...5 will probably have a puncture or a mechanical... another 15 will get dropped because they picked the wrong race. 20 or so will hang in and struggle to finish. 20 will sit in and not be competitive. That only leaves 20 who have a chance at the win. So not that many to beat!

freehub

It's not true.

Race is about tactics, mine suck, so I could not win, the break were gone.


And alot of people just sit in the bunch and you wonder why they didn't just go on a club ride instead.

ju5t1n

freehub wrote:

Race is about tactics

Fair point, but you don't need to be Garry Kasparov to win a bike race

Herbsman

I'd say the modal range is the important thing here, and I have found that it's 24mph +/- 2mph

Herbsman

However, the modal range of my training rides is 27mph +/-4mph, while the average speed is only 18-19mph

Zachariah

It isn't that black-and-white. Yes, it's relatively easy to sit in the peloton for an hour or more, at least in the crits I've been doing.

But, when it come to the finish, it's very, very difficult to be in the running for points. You can't just magic yourself to the front - you have to be there already, and that means being in the wind at the front, which is very tiring (or having a teammate take the heat). If you're strong enough to lead the group for the last few laps and still sprint for it, you're too strong for your category.

In my (limited) experience, there's a big gulf in ability between

A) Being able to comfortably keep up with the group, and

Being able to stay far enough ahead of the pack (either throughout the race or just at then end) to win on your own.

This is why I'm nonplussed at the posters claiming it's not racing unless you're at the front all the time, giving it some. Only a tiny minority of people can make that work, and they'll be moving up to 2nd Cat or better in short order. For the rest of us mortals, we've got to conserve energy.

rocksteadyeddie

As above, it's not the average that kills you. Road races are run at greatly varying pace. e.g. a few weeks ago we were doing 18mph for 15 mins, but the overall average was 25.4mph. In other words when the hammer went down it was fast.

As an aside it never ceases to amaze me how many people turn up to race and just want to sit in the bunch for 2 hours, making no attempt to sniff the wind or to contest the finish.

Pross

Average speed doesn't mean much at all as others have said. Unless you lack the basic fitness levels required it will be poor bunch positioning, sudden acceleration or speed up hills that will sort you out. Most reasonably flat races for lower cat riders will be around the mid 20s but there will be places where you array going 30mph on the flats, you'll have to sprint out of every corner (the further back you are the harder / longer the sprint will be.

StageWinner

If you can average 30MPH on your own, you should definitely try road racing.

Herbsman

Rocksteadyeddie wrote:

As an aside it never ceases to amaze me how many people turn up to race and just want to sit in the bunch for 2 hours, making no attempt to sniff the wind or to contest the finish.

Can't complain though - they're contributing towards the cost of running the race.

amaferanga

Rocksteadyeddie wrote:

As an aside it never ceases to amaze me how many people turn up to race and just want to sit in the bunch for 2 hours, making no attempt to sniff the wind or to contest the finish.

I think the same myself sometimes, but then I remember how I raced when I did an E/1/2/3 race with a number of very good Elites (Dean Downing, Tom Murray, Dave Clarke,...) and realise that some of them at least are sitting in the bunch because just staying in the bunch is a major achievement to them.

hammerite

amaferanga wrote:

Rocksteadyeddie wrote:

As an aside it never ceases to amaze me how many people turn up to race and just want to sit in the bunch for 2 hours, making no attempt to sniff the wind or to contest the finish.

I think the same myself sometimes, but then I remember how I raced when I did an E/1/2/3 race with a number of very good Elites (Dean Downing, Tom Murray, Dave Clarke,...) and realise that some of them at least are sitting in the bunch because just staying in the bunch is a major achievement to them.

Although there's little point sniffing the wind if there's no one to chase, or you're not attacking/in a break yourself. Everyone has to play to their strengths.

Pross

amaferanga wrote:

Rocksteadyeddie wrote:

As an aside it never ceases to amaze me how many people turn up to race and just want to sit in the bunch for 2 hours, making no attempt to sniff the wind or to contest the finish.

I think the same myself sometimes, but then I remember how I raced when I did an E/1/2/3 race with a number of very good Elites (Dean Downing, Tom Murray, Dave Clarke,...) and realise that some of them at least are sitting in the bunch because just staying in the bunch is a major achievement to them.

This. In my first season as a junior it took me until the end of the season to finish in the bunch and I felt as though I'd won when I finally did it. After that I started trying to ride more at the front. I'm back in the aiming to stay in the bunch phase again now!

rocksteadyeddie

There is a difference between sitting in because you have to, and sitting in and coasting over the line in umpteenth place (although perhaps this is better than sitting in and then sprinting for the win). There seems to be a lot of the latter in the races I have been in.

joeyhalloran

what is wrong with sitting in and sprinting to win?

Chip \'oyler

JoeyHalloran wrote:

what is wrong with sitting in and sprinting to win?

yeah – Cav gets paid a lot of money for doing exactly that!

oldwelshman

Not sure youcan compare pro tour sprints to a 3/4 crit !!
Anyway if someone sprints and wins a 3/4 race a couple of times they will soon move up to 2nd cat and if not fit enough will get theire arse ripped out
Hammerite, if there is no point in sniffing the wind in a race for no reason and everyone thought the same, it would end up 15mph with a sprint at the end, in which case why have a 1hour plus 5 laps race, just make it 5 laps right ?

SteveR_100Milers

oldwelshman wrote:

Not sure youcan compare pro tour sprints to a 3/4 crit !!
Anyway if someone sprints and wins a 3/4 race a couple of times they will soon move up to 2nd cat and if not fit enough will get theire ars* ripped out
Hammerite, if there is no point in sniffing the wind in a race for no reason and everyone thought the same, it would end up 15mph with a sprint at the end, in which case why have a 1hour plus 5 laps race, just make it 5 laps right ?

how about indoors on a wooden surface?!!

oldwelshman

That would be 80 laps It is rare for masters races on the track to be less than 30mph av speed and mostly very agressive racing

SteveR_100Milers

TT is only 3 laps, and is on your own!

joeyhalloran

it seems like you have completely missed the point of racing. The point is to win anyway you can. Anyway, if you have the FTP and power to win a 3/4 I am willing to bet you have to power to stay in the pack for a 2/3/4...you just might not be as competitive.

It seems like you say people should choose not to win/race to their strengths in a 3/4 because they are worried about not being the best rider in a 2/3...which is just ridiculous.