Self-defence tips for commuting?

garnett

Having seen some of the videos on here of some scary altercations, and with "Wherever possible extract yourself from given situation if at all possible", has anyone got any cycling-specific tips for those instances where violent defence is the only option?

Obviously nobody's going to be stupid and suggest carrying any offensive weapons or any other law breaking.

If anyone happened to be wearing mtb gloves when attacked, the fibreglass knuckle protection looks quite handy.

Similarly if people suffer from muscle ache and carry deep heat spray, I read that it can act like pepper spray.

My multitool is pretty heavy at 275g, and I'm not sure I need anything more than a 5mm hex key and a screwdriver. Not sure I'd ever be in the situation where I'd have put a screwdriver in my pocket instead of the multitool, to be honest.

timmyflash

garnett

Reckon nobody'd mess with you, but that's definitely illegal!

Actually - while I say I couldn't imagine carrying a screwdriver, if anyone carries one of these or these as their multitool, it's probably worth remembering it's in your pocket if you get attacked.

Randell

how about one of these, http://www.code09.com/productdisplay.ph ... 4Qodb2fG8A

secured to your bike with one of these, http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/productDeta ... ctID=23360 :?:








DISCLAIMER: this is a joke, please do not try this at home. (EDIT) please dont use it on your commute either.

unixnerd

Our colonial cousins have come up with a superb device:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abIz1KZOOzg

Pufftmw

Self-defence tips for commuting

Cycle faster

SimonAH

No, seriously, discretion is the better part of valour. Anyway having a speargun on your bike makes it a magnet for thieves.

raymondo60

Love the Trek District though Simon - my favourite commuting machine. And I see you have a 'skully' rear light - my 1st choice. Not sure about the stem/bars and pedals though. Each to his own I guess......

Only ONE THING that can protect you, and that's a GOOD ATTITUDE!

God, this is boring...........................

rolf_f

SimonAH wrote:

No, seriously, discretion is the better part of valour. Anyway having a speargun on your bike makes it a magnet for thieves.

I hope this bike is SS rather than fixed. I'd advise anyone planning on fitting a projectile launching device to a non geared bike not to go fixed as the recoil could cause personal distress!

woodford2barbican

Stupidest thread ever.

mudcow007

I'll teach you to left hook me....

prawny

D-lock the c*nt?

Clever Pun

prawny wrote:

D-lock the c*nt?

thank you.. that took a while to get to

SimonAH

prawny wrote:

D-lock the c*nt?

Haha! I was waiting for that!

Seriously folks. If anybody is taking this thread in anything other than a joking manner.

1) Even if you went out, ahem, 'tooled up' in some manner the odds are you wouldn't get it into your hands before a real nutter could take a swing at you anyway.

2) If you did get hold of it and gave the knuckle dragger a thwock or a poke then (unless he was threatening you with a weapon) I suspect you would come off worse in court.

He is probably on foot? You are on a bike? Meh, cycle off just a tiny bit faster than he can run and keep him shouting and panting for as long as possible. Whenever he stops and shakes his fist at you then stop as well just out of reach. Could be great fun!

UndercoverElephant

woodford2barbican wrote:

Stupidest thread ever.

Meh, you obviously haven't been here very long.

bails87

SimonAH
I agree entirely, if you've got time to get your weapon out, ahem, then you've got time to cycle away.

king_jeffers

Garnett wrote:

Similarly if people suffer from muscle ache and carry deep heat spray, I read that it can act like pepper spray.

Except the can pressure is none existent and the spray would more likely blow back into your face with the slightest gust.

I carry a leatherman in my pack but would never use unless I was cornered or about to be attacked by a giant squirl or similarly any other overly large woodland animal.

Also I go rambling quite a bit and after seeing 127 hours I think its important to always carry a good multi tool

Otherwise violence is a no, no. I really don't think its necessary to carry weapons its more important to keep cool or move on. I actually want to get home to the Mrs at night. I think if you have the option you would more than likely be tempted to use it.

SimonAH wrote:

1) Even if you went out, ahem, 'tooled up' in some manner the odds are you wouldn't get it into your hands before a real nutter could take a swing at you anyway.

Agree most if not all nut jobs do this for kicks and its impulse with intent. By the time you reacted you'd be down anyway. I'd like to think most of us are civilised, take the flight option! Cycle away whilst shaking your fist that will show them!

MichaelW

In my experience when you need self defence, you need it NOW and not in 20 seconds time. Nothing you carry inside a bag will help you.
Standing over a bike is the worst place to be when someone is trying to hit you.
Your sensible options are:
1 Ride away.
2. Dismount the bike, lift it up and use it as a shield.
3. Keep your D lock under a bunjie chord on the rear rack for rapid deployment.

If you want to engage someone with a D-lock, dont hit their head, its easy to defend against and if you connect, you could be up for murder most foul. Go for the knees or lower leg.

Most mad-driver road-rage indents are about re-establishing dominance after a pervceived slight by someone lower down the pecking order, ie getting in driver's way.
If you are a really big guy, driver will realize his mistake. If you are smaller then you either run, fight or act submissive.

If you are considering fighting, then dont make it up as you go along, get some training.
If you are wearing clipless pedal shoes, esp road style, DONT FIGHT.

garnett

EDIT: Apologies, wrote out the post below at about 8.:25 before a lot of the most recent replies were posted. I just realised it was still seitting there, and clicked "post" and then saw everything else. It wasn't intended as a direct response to those who said in the interim "cycle away"
Hmmm. The "stupidest thread ever" posts go on to piously condescend to introduce stuff I already posted in the OP.

There's a difference between carrying an object with a view to using it as a weapon, and remembering what you have on you if ever it may become useful in a dangeous situation.

The thread that prompted this one was the "Has anyone seen this psycho" youtube video link. In that, the cyclist has quite a while to think about defending himself (or turning around and going the other way - I know the cool pious-thread-posting trend is to say "I would have been the bigger man, and cycled the other way, then got into work and saved lives, before necking a fruit smoothie, and making a donation to charity" but I've never been very cool or trendy.

Pufftmw

Do something useful like karate. It essentially teaches you to automatically react if someone throws a punch or kick at you - block & counterstrike. It becomes second nature, much like the judo roll I practiced weekly from the age of 8 for 10 years - when I got thrown over the handlebars of my motorbike at 60 mph, I automatically tucked into a roll to break my fall. Broken thumb as opposed to 2 broken wrists/scaphoids + more...

My cousin was attacked by some thug in a Jag on Millbank, so he "put him down" & broke his arm - easy as he was a karate black belt. Guy tried to have him done on assault but cousin had witnesses, so it was the other bloke who ended up convicted in court.

You're less likely to get prosecuted if you use your hands for self-defence rather than a weapon of some sort.

MichaelW

Can you do a karate block/counterpunch straddling a bike with clipless shoes? If this is your self defence scenario, you should get out the punchbags and test it.

sketchley

in my experience someone being "threatening" will fall in to one of two categories.

1. They are angry and are going to hit you. If this is the case they will come straight at you, normally in a rage it's unlikely they will tell you they are going to hit you they will just do it.

That's what happens in this film http://road.cc/content/news/38709-viole ... tured-film there is very little you can do about this other than get your retaliation in first or try to make them reconsider or running away. Getting off your bike, standing tall and even moving towards them might make them thing twice, but in all probability they have already lost it and you are getting hit. Getting out of the way is also effective. Knowing a little Karate helps too although I've never had to use it in anger. Being tooled up for this isn't going to help it's just going to escalate it very quickly.

2. They are intent on intimidating you. So will shout grab and threaten to hit you all in the name of trying to make themselves feel bigger than you. That's what happens here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5PqTlvfavM when I first watched that my instant reaction was the the cyclist was not about to get hit, the bloke was all hot air, albeit scary hot air. Other than running away there are two ways of dealing with this, the first is to stay calm and let it blow over as the bloke doesn't really want to fight. The second is to stand firm or even move forward and make him realise that the only option he has is to flight or back down. Invariably they will back down but be careful not to escalate the situation. I've had first hand experience of this with a guy chasing his girlfriend across a petrol station forecourt and threatening to thump her, I stepped in and basically told him calmly that he either had to walk away or go through me. Much to my surprise he back down and walked away as once it was clear he could no longer intimidate her or me there was nothing left for him. That and fact he was being faced down by a 6ft, 18stone bloke at 1am in morning. Again I don't think being tooled up helps this, but a little Karate and getting in to an attacking stance can scare them a little and make them reconsider attempting to intimidate.

Zachariah

Not that I've given this much thought...

A light but strong chain/cable coiled up in the back pocket of your jersey can be brought to bear at a moment's notice - lock end held in the fist, loose end swung at target (avoid use on large, solid objects though, as the recoil and risk of the chain catching is great, especially if you or the object are moving at speed). A dumbbell spanner, also quickly accessible from the pocket, can be carried legitimately and makes an excellent kubotan.

Although many pumps appear similar to telescopic batons, they should not be used as such except as a last resort (they are not designed to cope with forces perpendicular to the pump action and will break or bend).

If you have time and a mobile, call 999. Always call the Police at the earliest opportunity - it is not an uncommon tactic for aggressors to call claiming they were assaulted by you. Remember the Police can only act on what is reported (unless they happen to be passing by), so if Thug A calls and says a cyclist attacked him and his car for no reason, the Police response will assume that is the case when they arrive, and you will be left trying to prove otherwise.

Warn anyone approaching you not to come any closer. This isn't a legal get-out-of-jail card, but it is useful for other purposes. Sometimes an authoritative, barked order is enough to bring someone to their senses. If they still advance on you, you know they mean business and you have extra seconds to prepare an appropriate response.

If you can't cycle away (always the best option), dismount at the earliest opportunity as your movements are severely restricted astride a bike. When stationary, the bike itself is the best form of self-defence. Place the frame between you and the aggressor, driveside away from you. A single attacker can be kept at arm's length using the wheels and drivetrain to push them away.

Hold the bike horizontally by the headtube and seatpost. Use short, quick jabs toward the aggressor's lower torso - do not give them the opportunity to seize any part of the bike and pull it away from you (quick article on something similar here).

However, if it's got to the point where you're both slugging it out, you've both lost.

tailwindhome

Crane kick

'No can defence'

prawny

Clever Pun wrote:

prawny wrote:

D-lock the c*nt?

thank you.. that took a while to get to

Tell me about it! I had to read the thread three times, I couldn't believe it wasn't the first post

gilesjuk

The best defence is to not let anyone get anywhere near you in the first place.

If they're walking over towards you then it's time to scarper.

You might feel a coward but there's always someone more experienced in fighting than you.

veronese68

TailWindHome wrote:

Crane kick

'No can defence'

I think I saw that in kung Fu Panda.

TuckerUK

First thing, only stand and fight if there is no option. Forget pride, there are no points for being brave and dead. If fight is the only option, you have the legal and moral higher ground, and 'goodness' is on your side.

So, having made the decision to stand and fight for your self-defence, be 100% committed and hope you adversary is not. Commitment and determination is more important than skill and/or technique, and unless you train with your weapon of choice often enough for it to become ingrained in muscle memory (i.e. you train daily), leave it at home, there's a very great chance it could be used against you by your assailant. Maintain focussed direct eye contact with your opponent, the attacker's arms and legs will then be in your movement sensitive peripheral vision (obviously this only applies in a one on one scenario, if the odds are worse then you need to be scanning the whole area at all times).

Use the force.

First.Aspect

Providing a deterrent is the best option. Personally, I dress like this:

gtvlusso

Not sure if I have to remind everyone of my incident with the white van, where I broke said white van mans jaw......

Happy without the need for altercation, the best defence is to cycle well and be aware/anticipate problems before they occur. I would suggest that if you are involved in any hullaballoo, the better and bigger person rides away and reports the incident to the authorities.

The complete tossa (i.e. me) squares up, stands and fights......

Always, bear this in mind though. If you competitor/complainent has just got out of a motorised vehicle, they will not be knackered and will have more stamina - you cannot stop halfway through and ask for a breather....be relentless and ruthless, do not hesitate. Also, the most aggrieved party will always win - even if you are up against a monster, if you have gone beyond the red mist you can defeat almost anyone. In fact, most people back down when you get to this state....Have no conscience at all and show no mercy (all a bit gladiator?!) - any weakness will be exploited. All the words of my boxing coach from a few years ago........

**in no way do I advocate any kind of violence at all. The valiant person rides on in all circumstances and squaring up for a fight lowers you to a neandethal level. You should go to your local Police if you have been assualted verbally or physically with evidence and witnesses.

sketchley

gtvlusso wrote:

The complete tossa (i.e. me) squares up, stands and fights......

Interesting. My Karate teaching taught me to Square Up, stand firm and let the other man make the decision if they want to fight or not. Should I be unable to get the hell out a situation, or for that matter if I have to intervene (see above story) I refuse to be intimidated and will always stand my ground. Certainly helps that I can handle myself if need be although I've not struck someone in anger in over 25 years and don't want to start now. Even red mist man wouldn't phase me I'd probably just sit on them and wait for police.