When it's rigid it slides on simple like!

DonDaddyD
DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
edited August 2011 in Commuting chat
Right so I've had a number of folding tyres; Continental Attack/Force, GP4000s (*4), 4 seasons(*4) and GatorSkins (*1).

Incidentally my best combination was a 23mm front 4 season and a 25/26mmm rear.

Anyway I recently purchased a rigid GatorSkin to replace the one that exploded on me a week ago. My word was it much easier to fit, it seemed to simply slide on. Like a glove and without the need of lube or elbow grease. 2min job!

So I got to thinking, aside from space saving there really isn't much benefit to folding tyres so from a consumer perspective (unless you're in the habit of storing spare tyres) what's the point?

[Yes I'm aware I once previously made a thread asking what was the difference between folding and rigid tyres).

Edit: Now with a meaningless poll..
Food Chain number = 4

A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
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Comments

  • UndercoverElephant
    UndercoverElephant Posts: 5,796
    Folding is lighter. Lighter is better.
    Sun - Rain - Snow
  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    Isn't there a weight difference? like 200g vs 300g? Not huge, not in commuting terms but its rotational..
  • roger_merriman
    roger_merriman Posts: 6,165
    Such is the danger of few data points, Marathon Plus are rigid which are not known for their ease of fitting.

    the folding tyres tend to be lighter and tend to be the posher tyres with better compounds.
  • sketchley
    sketchley Posts: 4,238
    Advantage of folding tyre is that you can carry a spare in your panniers.
    --
    Chris

    Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/5
  • gtvlusso
    gtvlusso Posts: 5,112
    Rigids are generally cheaper......hence I go with rigids, being a cheapskate.
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    gtvlusso wrote:
    Rigids are generally cheaper......hence I go with rigids, being a cheapskate.

    Band of Brothers. My brother! Band'o'brothers.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • redvee
    redvee Posts: 11,922
    gtvlusso wrote:
    Rigids are generally cheaper......hence I go with rigids, being a cheapskate.

    Join the club, I don't have the, in order of expense, wife, kids, 4x4, mad dog to support but finances are flush so rigids are what my rims are shod in.
    I've added a signature to prove it is still possible.
  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    The ease of mounting is all to do with how tight your rim is.

    Some rims have a greater diameter than others. Only you know what yours is like.

    Rigidity isn't the defining factor.
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

    Bike 1
    Bike 2-A
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    Definitely folding on Bike Number 1. Bikes Number 2 & 3 get rigids because they're cheaper. But I tend to wait til tyres are being sold cheap on CRC or wherever and buy them to keep in stock
    Do not write below this line. Office use only.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,897
    gtvlusso wrote:
    Rigids are generally cheaper......hence I go with rigids, being a cheapskate.

    +several
    Kinesis Pro6
    Marin Nail Trail
    Cotic Solaris
  • Confusedboy
    Confusedboy Posts: 287
    A folding tyre is lighter, and therefore must be less sturdy and more easily punctured, right? In any case I would be hard pressed to find one small enough to fit in my saddlebag, which is already stuffed with spare inner, multitool, tyre levers and CO2 cartridge.
  • Paul E
    Paul E Posts: 2,052
    Lighter as they don't have a rigid metal bead
  • gtvlusso
    gtvlusso Posts: 5,112
    redvee wrote:
    gtvlusso wrote:
    Rigids are generally cheaper......hence I go with rigids, being a cheapskate.

    Join the club, I don't have the, in order of expense, wife, kids, 4x4, mad dog to support but finances are flush so rigids are what my rims are shod in.

    You know me too well.....!
  • notsoblue
    notsoblue Posts: 5,756
    I carry a spare folding tyre on long (50+ mile) rides. But otherwise I ride rigid gatorskins. I don't see the point in superlight tyres if I'm carrying so much spare weight myself ;)

    Also, I really really hate punctures. My bike came with some Schwalbe Blizzards and I must have had 3-4 punctures in the time it took me to replace them. I'd rather have piece of mind than lighter tyres to be honest.

    Is it possible to get puncture resistant folding tyres?
    FCN 4 PX SL Pro SRAM Red
    FCN 8 Scott Sportster '05
  • roger_merriman
    roger_merriman Posts: 6,165
    notsoblue wrote:
    I carry a spare folding tyre on long (50+ mile) rides. But otherwise I ride rigid gatorskins. I don't see the point in superlight tyres if I'm carrying so much spare weight myself ;)

    Also, I really really hate punctures. My bike came with some Schwalbe Blizzards and I must have had 3-4 punctures in the time it took me to replace them. I'd rather have piece of mind than lighter tyres to be honest.

    Is it possible to get puncture resistant folding tyres?

    Durano Plus which seem okay though clearly they are not marathon pluses but do you need marathon pluses? my commute has brocken bottles and my way in clips a thorn bush. so 25mm marathon plus for me, they also have stronger side walls.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,922
    Yes, it's just the bead that's made of kevlar instead of steel wire. Gatorskins and Armadillos come in both varieties. You can fold a wire-bead tyre, sort of. - well enough to get it in a rucksack anyway. Grab and twist.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    roger merriman wrote:
    Durano Plus which seem okay though clearly they are not marathon pluses but do you need marathon pluses? my commute has brocken bottles and my way in clips a thorn bush. so 25mm marathon plus for me, they also have stronger side walls.

    I am using Durano S currently. So far doing OK. The Delta Cruisers I've used on my tourer for the crapper seasons seem tough enough so I've never actually seen the need for Marathons aside from the winter variety.

    I wouldn't use rigids. I can get the Schwalbes on and off the notoriously tight Campag rims without tyre levers anyway. Not sure I could do that with rigids (the ones that came on the Ribble I ended up holing one trying to get it off - a nightmare!).
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Rich158
    Rich158 Posts: 2,348
    Confusedboy wrote:
    A folding tyre is lighter, and therefore must be less sturdy and more easily punctured, right? In any case I would be hard pressed to find one small enough to fit in my saddlebag, which is already stuffed with spare inner, multitool, tyre levers and CO2 cartridge.

    Not so my dear chap. folding tyres tend to be higher quality and have a higher TPi casing and a bit of kevlar so tend to be far more puncture resistant than rigid tyres. They're also far more flexible giving far superior ride quality and have better grip. imho it's a win/win situation, I'd never go back to rigids, especially in the wet
    pain is temporary, the glory of beating your mates to the top of the hill lasts forever.....................

    Revised FCN - 2
  • sketchley
    sketchley Posts: 4,238
    roger merriman wrote:
    notsoblue wrote:
    I carry a spare folding tyre on long (50+ mile) rides. But otherwise I ride rigid gatorskins. I don't see the point in superlight tyres if I'm carrying so much spare weight myself ;)

    Also, I really really hate punctures. My bike came with some Schwalbe Blizzards and I must have had 3-4 punctures in the time it took me to replace them. I'd rather have piece of mind than lighter tyres to be honest.

    Is it possible to get puncture resistant folding tyres?

    Durano Plus which seem okay though clearly they are not marathon pluses but do you need marathon pluses? my commute has brocken bottles and my way in clips a thorn bush. so 25mm marathon plus for me, they also have stronger side walls.

    I don't think you do as they have the same puncture protection as Durano's and according to Sheldon tread on bicycle tyre is a little pointless, http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html#hydroplaning,
    --
    Chris

    Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/5
  • SimonAH
    SimonAH Posts: 3,730
    Sheldon has (deservedly) demigod status in the pantheon, however I disagree on the tread side of things.

    Yes, tread on a car tyre is there for prevention of aquaplaning but on a bicycle (where this is obviously not a danger) it is there to complement the frictional grip of the rubber with mechanical grip where the tread interacts with projections on the riding surface.

    If you always ride on biliard table smooth surfaces then a slick or a likely cut slick is going to win - in real world city surfaces then I think a modicum of tread is very advantageous.
    FCN 5 belt driven fixie for city bits
    CAADX 105 beastie for bumpy bits
    Litespeed L3 for Strava bits

    Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.
  • notsoblue
    notsoblue Posts: 5,756
    I just got the innuendo in the title.
    FCN 4 PX SL Pro SRAM Red
    FCN 8 Scott Sportster '05
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    SimonAH wrote:
    If you always ride on biliard table smooth surfaces then a slick or a likely cut slick is going to win - in real world city surfaces then I think a modicum of tread is very advantageous.

    I'd have though slightly reduced tyre pressures would be rather more effective at dealing with that issue. I just can't see how the sort of tread I've seen on 700c tyres is going to make any difference on tarmac surfaces whatever their condition.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • roger_merriman
    roger_merriman Posts: 6,165
    Sketchley wrote:
    roger merriman wrote:
    notsoblue wrote:
    I carry a spare folding tyre on long (50+ mile) rides. But otherwise I ride rigid gatorskins. I don't see the point in superlight tyres if I'm carrying so much spare weight myself ;)

    Also, I really really hate punctures. My bike came with some Schwalbe Blizzards and I must have had 3-4 punctures in the time it took me to replace them. I'd rather have piece of mind than lighter tyres to be honest.

    Is it possible to get puncture resistant folding tyres?

    Durano Plus which seem okay though clearly they are not marathon pluses but do you need marathon pluses? my commute has brocken bottles and my way in clips a thorn bush. so 25mm marathon plus for me, they also have stronger side walls.

    I don't think you do as they have the same puncture protection as Durano's and according to Sheldon tread on bicycle tyre is a little pointless, http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html#hydroplaning,

    Not sure why folk say this as your not the first!

    Any way from Schwalbe

    "Maximum puncture protection for race machines! The Durano Plus has a SmartGuard belt for extremely effective protection against penetration punctures. The strong, highly elastic, special rubber layer is not as thick as in the Marathon Plus. Nevertheless it has a level of protection unparalled in racing cycle tires."

    Note the not as thick, it is the same type but it's not the same.

    Its quite noticable if before fitting you have a good feel of the tyre on the durino its quite thin.

    The marathon also adds stronger side walls and a bit of tread which is handy for mild cx cross stuff.
  • Rich158
    Rich158 Posts: 2,348
    SimonAH wrote:
    Sheldon has (deservedly) demigod status in the pantheon, however I disagree on the tread side of things.

    Yes, tread on a car tyre is there for prevention of aquaplaning but on a bicycle (where this is obviously not a danger) it is there to complement the frictional grip of the rubber with mechanical grip where the tread interacts with projections on the riding surface.

    If you always ride on biliard table smooth surfaces then a slick or a likely cut slick is going to win - in real world city surfaces then I think a modicum of tread is very advantageous.

    I don't follow your logic here, the more rubber there is on the road the more grip you have. Any form of tread reduces the contact patch and therefore the amount of grip available. The mechanical grip you refer to just doesn't exist on the road, it's fine on soft surfaces but just doesn't work on tarmac. I've ridden 700x23 slicks almost exclusively for years on some of the worst roads arround in all weathers, even through snow and ice, and never wished I had something else
    pain is temporary, the glory of beating your mates to the top of the hill lasts forever.....................

    Revised FCN - 2
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Rich158 wrote:
    SimonAH wrote:
    Sheldon has (deservedly) demigod status in the pantheon, however I disagree on the tread side of things.

    Yes, tread on a car tyre is there for prevention of aquaplaning but on a bicycle (where this is obviously not a danger) it is there to complement the frictional grip of the rubber with mechanical grip where the tread interacts with projections on the riding surface.

    If you always ride on biliard table smooth surfaces then a slick or a likely cut slick is going to win - in real world city surfaces then I think a modicum of tread is very advantageous.

    I don't follow your logic here, the more rubber there is on the road the more grip you have. Any form of tread reduces the contact patch and therefore the amount of grip available. The mechanical grip you refer to just doesn't exist on the road, it's fine on soft surfaces but just doesn't work on tarmac. I've ridden 700x23 slicks almost exclusively for years on some of the worst roads arround in all weathers, even through snow and ice, and never wished I had something else

    Yep.

    Slicks on tarmac.

    You really need to be going off road (not just grass and mud) for knobbly tyres to actually benefit.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • roger_merriman
    roger_merriman Posts: 6,165
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Rich158 wrote:
    SimonAH wrote:
    Sheldon has (deservedly) demigod status in the pantheon, however I disagree on the tread side of things.

    Yes, tread on a car tyre is there for prevention of aquaplaning but on a bicycle (where this is obviously not a danger) it is there to complement the frictional grip of the rubber with mechanical grip where the tread interacts with projections on the riding surface.

    If you always ride on biliard table smooth surfaces then a slick or a likely cut slick is going to win - in real world city surfaces then I think a modicum of tread is very advantageous.

    I don't follow your logic here, the more rubber there is on the road the more grip you have. Any form of tread reduces the contact patch and therefore the amount of grip available. The mechanical grip you refer to just doesn't exist on the road, it's fine on soft surfaces but just doesn't work on tarmac. I've ridden 700x23 slicks almost exclusively for years on some of the worst roads arround in all weathers, even through snow and ice, and never wished I had something else

    Yep.

    Slicks on tarmac.

    You really need to be going off road (not just grass and mud) for knobbly tyres to actually benefit.

    Um mud and grass are where knobbly tyres shine and slicks really don't work well.

    The rubber compound has a large part to play, mtb tyres partically downhill types use some very soft compounds, road tyres i don't think get any where as soft, persumably as the drag and wear would be horrific!
  • UndercoverElephant
    UndercoverElephant Posts: 5,796
    notsoblue wrote:
    I just got the innuendo in the title.

    It is quite subtle, no wonder it took a while.
    Sun - Rain - Snow
  • kieranb
    kieranb Posts: 1,674
    Greg66 wrote:
    The ease of mounting is all to do with how tight your rim is.

    Some rims have a greater diameter than others. Only you know what yours is like.

    Rigidity isn't the defining factor.

    innuendo? luckily none here.
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    roger merriman wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Rich158 wrote:
    SimonAH wrote:
    Sheldon has (deservedly) demigod status in the pantheon, however I disagree on the tread side of things.

    Yes, tread on a car tyre is there for prevention of aquaplaning but on a bicycle (where this is obviously not a danger) it is there to complement the frictional grip of the rubber with mechanical grip where the tread interacts with projections on the riding surface.

    If you always ride on biliard table smooth surfaces then a slick or a likely cut slick is going to win - in real world city surfaces then I think a modicum of tread is very advantageous.

    I don't follow your logic here, the more rubber there is on the road the more grip you have. Any form of tread reduces the contact patch and therefore the amount of grip available. The mechanical grip you refer to just doesn't exist on the road, it's fine on soft surfaces but just doesn't work on tarmac. I've ridden 700x23 slicks almost exclusively for years on some of the worst roads arround in all weathers, even through snow and ice, and never wished I had something else

    Yep.

    Slicks on tarmac.

    You really need to be going off road (not just grass and mud) for knobbly tyres to actually benefit.

    Um mud and grass are where knobbly tyres shine and slicks really don't work well.

    The rubber compound has a large part to play, mtb tyres partically downhill types use some very soft compounds, road tyres i don't think get any where as soft, persumably as the drag and wear would be horrific!

    That's what I said.

    :shock:
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • sketchley
    sketchley Posts: 4,238
    roger merriman wrote:
    Sketchley wrote:
    roger merriman wrote:
    notsoblue wrote:
    I carry a spare folding tyre on long (50+ mile) rides. But otherwise I ride rigid gatorskins. I don't see the point in superlight tyres if I'm carrying so much spare weight myself ;)

    Also, I really really hate punctures. My bike came with some Schwalbe Blizzards and I must have had 3-4 punctures in the time it took me to replace them. I'd rather have piece of mind than lighter tyres to be honest.

    Is it possible to get puncture resistant folding tyres?

    Durano Plus which seem okay though clearly they are not marathon pluses but do you need marathon pluses? my commute has brocken bottles and my way in clips a thorn bush. so 25mm marathon plus for me, they also have stronger side walls.

    I don't think you do as they have the same puncture protection as Durano's and according to Sheldon tread on bicycle tyre is a little pointless, http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html#hydroplaning,

    Not sure why folk say this as your not the first!

    Any way from Schwalbe

    "Maximum puncture protection for race machines! The Durano Plus has a SmartGuard belt for extremely effective protection against penetration punctures. The strong, highly elastic, special rubber layer is not as thick as in the Marathon Plus. Nevertheless it has a level of protection unparalled in racing cycle tires."

    Note the not as thick, it is the same type but it's not the same.

    Its quite noticable if before fitting you have a good feel of the tyre on the durino its quite thin.

    The marathon also adds stronger side walls and a bit of tread which is handy for mild cx cross stuff.

    I stand corrected. The point about tread is still valid one though.
    --
    Chris

    Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/5

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