Foot path / Knob head problems

bamba

First of all sorry to raise the foot path one again,This is a personal problem I encounter on my local route,some of which are quiet public country side footpaths that i have ridden for 2 years or more with out hardly seeing a soul, one of which starts of as a single track sealed surface road for approx 3/4 mile towards some large remote private houses,road then turns to a farm track through a gate, 2 more large houses,one of which knob head lives in,the surface is now a sealed tarmac road again, (still marked footpath), a few hundred yards after this the foot path is signed across a field, but the road continues with no further sign age past another house before joining at the top on to a proper road,where it is marked private road,only from this end.I usually carry on ridding along this bit as the path across the field is rubbish,this bit is no where near knob heads house.
Last year he about nearly ran us over as we turned in from the top in to the bit marked private,and had bit of a altercation about it , even though it not near his house and the foot path starts about 600yrds past this point.
I usually ride bottom to top so technically i do not pass any private signs.
The other day he came out his court yard to have another go out me, i stayed polite as possible, where he seamed to forget it was a foot path and accused me of trespassing, i said fine , get the police then,but they wont do any thing other than tell me to move on, which i was doing
The bit past knob heads house is a foot path, but he and delivery drivers use there cars on there, so how can he tell me not to ride on it when vehicles are driven on there ?
It is also used by severn trent water to access a few under ground water reservoirs .
How do you think i should respond to him next time ?
I will try to show a map up latter i this helps, avioding this area will mean cycling mile of road

nicklouse

so it is not a footpath then?

is all I get from the above.

need maps.

bails87

You're not allowed to cycle on footpaths.

What the landowner does with the land is his business, but you're not allowed to cycle on it.

If it's causing problems then go round it, or be polite, go round and explain why you use the footpath and ask him if he'd let you use it.

If not, then all you can do is stop moaning, unfortunately.

estampida

you need to get an os map and see what the classification of the right of way is

i'm in scotland so really dont have this problem, they are all rights of way

It would be funny if its a bridleway and neither bike's, walkers or cars can use it.

On the whole i would ignore him, really the cops have better things to do, and it is a quite part of the farming season, 2 weeks and he will be out in the fields all day and night

and of course write to your MP and give him heat about your antiquated backward access laws

welshkev

estampida wrote:

It would be funny if its a bridleway and neither bike's, walkers or cars can use it.
s

can cyclists not use bridleways? oops, i always thought we could :oops:

nicklouse

welshkev wrote:

estampida wrote:

It would be funny if its a bridleway and neither bike's, walkers or cars can use it.
s

can cyclists not use bridleways? oops, i always thought we could :oops:

We can.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_of_ ... _and_Wales

bails87

welshkev wrote:

estampida wrote:

It would be funny if its a bridleway and neither bike's, walkers or cars can use it.
s

can cyclists not use bridleways? oops, i always thought we could :oops:

We can, not sure what estampida means.

welshkev

i thought so....

getonyourbike

I use any nice looking bit of trail, don't get caught, don't annoy anybody and be respectful to other users and you'll be fine.

That's just a general rule btw, not really applicable to the OP

sniper68

It's a difficult one but if it's a FP it's a FP simple.
My parents live on a farm in the Yorkshire Dales,miles away from anywhere,but the Dales Way long distance path runs through the farm yard.Obviously the FP is used by vehicles as it runs straight through the middle of the house/barns but it is still classed as a FP.They have no problems with bikes as this section of the DW is unridable but they do get walkers sitting on their garden bench to eat their lunch thinking that as it's a public right of way the bench is there for them
There's also BW that runs around a farmyard(also in the Dales)near Ribblehead Viaduct and the signs are old and confusing and bikes must've at some point taken a wrong turn and gone though the farmyard.The farmer has a big handpainted sign on his gate that reads "NO FUCKIN BIKES"
Have you asked the bloke who actually owns the strip of land in front of his house?If it's him and it's a FP he can refuse use.If it's Severn Trent Water then contact them,they might allow it.

bails87

ibbo68 wrote:

this section of the DW is unridable

That sounds like a wager to me!

bamba

80% of the bit in question is marked as a foot path, yes i no i shouldnt ride it, but about half of this is a single width sealed surface road therefore cars are driven on it, if cars are on it , why not a bike ? the knobs house is not a farm or any thing just a big house,he said part of it is on his deeds ,

madmole

Its a Footpath and a private road, He probably has deed rights to use the road and the tarmac footpath as acces. The water authority has statutary right of access and entry

You however do not and thus if when asked to leave by the landowner or his agents you do not YOU are commiting a civil tort of Trespass and can be sued in court. By returning to an area you have been asked to leave and to which you have no right to be you are imeediately commiting a tort

However, all you need to do is dismount your bike, you then become a pedestrian and have a right of access to the footpath, but only the footpath, you have no rights to use a private road

Kaise

we had this problem in Glossop, the section of "road/bridleway" outside this dudes (aka Cheesewand) cottage was being used my me and mates on bikes and my mum and sister with their horses.

He decided he owned the land and laid block paving, expensive block paving at that, he came out shouting at me and the lads once, we just gave him the bird and carried on. Not a problem i hear you cry......well it wasnt until he decided to scare me ma's horse which then threw her to the floor breaking 4 ribs and the horse then trashed his car as it bolted.

The police and ambulance turns up and so starts legal shizzle.

The guy was fined under the a law i dont have the title of, but basically by frightening the horse with intent he caused a danger to the general public and the rider (me mam)

The legal stuff went on for a while as he was claiming the damage to his car wouldnt have occured if she hadnt been tresspassing.

The "road/bridleway" was deemed to be a rut, think thats what they called it, which is a declassified path and can be used by any person or vehicle, he had to pay damges to me mam and remove his block paving!

madmole

RUPP
Road used as Public Path

sniper68

bails87 wrote:

ibbo68 wrote:

this section of the DW is unridable

That sounds like a wager to me!

Sadly in this case "unridable" really is the case. I could technicay ride it as I have the landowners permission but it's a boggy featureless moorland nothingness with no actual track on the ground :? It's that crappy high moorland reed-grass stuff that loves moist-to-boggy ground. In summer it's a trudge on foot and after a wet spell it's a real slog....unless you're a sheep

Kaise

madmole wrote:

RUPP
Road used as Public Path

thats the Badgers, Cheers!

bails87

ibbo68 wrote:

bails87 wrote:

ibbo68 wrote:

this section of the DW is unridable

That sounds like a wager to me!

Sadly in this case "unridable" really is the case. I could technicay ride it as I have the landowners permission but it's a boggy featureless moorland nothingness with no actual track on the ground :? It's that crappy high moorland reed-grass stuff that loves moist-to-boggy ground. In summer it's a trudge on foot and after a wet spell it's a real slog....unless you're a sheep

Ah, so not 'fun' unrideable then!

OP: you park your car on your drive, so what's the harm in someone leaving their car there for a few weeks while they go on holiday, it's not going to cause any more harm is it?


Get off your bike. Or stay off the footpath, end of.

j_l

I always have and always will ride any public right of way I like the look of, be it FP or BP etc, I rarely have any issues if people object I plead ignorance and smile.

When riding said places be polite, courteous and respectful don't damage the land and or property and we can all live in harmony.

I genuinely think if you act as above and give people no reason to object they won’t.

I regularly ride Baggy Point in North Devon (NT land) and mostly see the warden when I am out, there are No bikes signs everywhere he has never ever said anything, I mostly ride 1st thing in the morning when its quiet, I also ride morte point and again have few issues, the only people who do object are grockles with shitty dogs who think they own the place (for the one week they are there) :roll:

madmole

There is no law against riding on footpaths per se, you just have no right to. Therefore the landowner or his agent can ask you to leave. If asked you must immediately do so or you commit trespass

On a Bridlepath, RUPP, BOAT, Restricted Byway or road you have a right to pass and repass on them and only a Police officer or traffic warden can direct otherwise (Councils my place restrictions on public rights of way but there is a legal process they have to follow)

timpop

madmole know's what he's talking about. Listen up.
Although, correct me if I'm wrong mr mole, you can only be charged with trespass if there is a specific bylaw in place for that path.

lvquestpaddler

Torts? Grockles? Are we in Narnia or Hobbiton?!
I'm still trying to work out what part of Scotland that Belize is in??!

madmole

Nope, Trepass can exist on ANY private land. but in 2001 it was made a criminal offence as well as a civil tort (to allow the Police to respond to it (mainly against hunt sabateurs))

But just being on private land isnt trespass, even of there is a sign. Trespass only committed if you dont leave imnediately when asked verbally to do so by land owner or their agents

I think your thinking of cycling on the paveway, in that case its only an offence if the council have bylaw against it (most do). Cyling on the pavement is technically legal cos in legal terms the pavement is the road!

Reason I know all this is I belong to GLASS, the Green Lane Association and we spend most of our time trying to stop councils and ramblers abusing the rights of ways and shutting them to save money

Graeme_aberdeen

its not really a tricky one, just ignore him, but if he nearly ran you over again and threatens you, then you can involve the police for threatening behaviour.

or just avoid conflict, that's my solution.

bamba

First of all thanks for the replies,
The private road sign is only at the top of said road , so when coming from bottom to top your none the wiser really,So really if ive got this right im legal to be there , cause its a foot path just may be not riding my bike even though cars are driven on it.And provided i am making my way off it, which i would be doing anyway and im not causing criminal damage im ok ??

here is a map of the bit, hopfully it will be vissable ok



Ive found quiet a bit out about the knob in question,ive not heard a good thing said about him from his neighbours or employees,he is very well off and because of this he thinks he is better than everyone else,

alfablue

madmole wrote:

I think your thinking of cycling on the paveway, in that case its only an offence if the council have bylaw against it (most do). Cyling on the pavement is technically legal cos in legal terms the pavement is the road!

What you are calling "pavement" is I think a "footway" (i.e. the bit beside a road), and cycling on that is an offence

Cycling on footways (a path at the side of a carriageway) is prohibited by Section 72 of the Highway Act 1835, amended by Section 85(1) of the Local Government Act 1888. This is punishable by a fixed penalty notice of £30 under Section 51 and Schedule 3 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.

madmole

Ah, but he has asked you to leave already, so if you go on the private road again on a bike he can sue you. if you are on foot then he may be "obstructing the highway" which is punishable by fine and you would have a DUTY to ABATE the obstruction

Oh and yes I did mean Footway and not Paveway, sorry. It was taken out of the RTA and the power to enforce it was given to the councils a while back

bamba

what exactly would i be obstructing while i was still on the footpath part ? the bit furthest north after the fp turns of in to the feild is nothing to do with him , i think

madmole

You wouldnt be

But if he was haranging you and preventing you passing and repassing then he is an obstruction

flet©h

bamba wrote:

what exactly would i be obstructing while i was still on the footpath part ? the bit furthest north after the fp turns of in to the feild is nothing to do with him , i think

You are the one in the wrong here.

If you were walking and he told you to bugger off then he could be done for obstructing a right of way.

But, since you are on a bike, now that he has asked you to "get off his land", you are trespassing whenever you go back there. Hoping of your bike and claiming you are walking wouldn't cut it either, you have no right to push your bike on a footpath either (Google for why).

However its such a minor thing I doubt the police would really care unless you start being a dick about it. Posting a map on the internet with his house labelled as "knob's house" could be classed as being a dick though.

Clank

madmole wrote:

Nope, Trepass can exist on ANY private land. but in 2001 it was made a criminal offence as well as a civil tort (to allow the Police to respond to it (mainly against hunt sabateurs))

But just being on private land isnt trespass, even of there is a sign. Trespass only committed if you dont leave imnediately when asked verbally to do so by land owner or their agents

I think your thinking of cycling on the paveway, in that case its only an offence if the council have bylaw against it (most do). Cyling on the pavement is technically legal cos in legal terms the pavement is the road!

Reason I know all this is I belong to GLASS, the Green Lane Association and we spend most of our time trying to stop councils and ramblers abusing the rights of ways and shutting them to save money

Unless something has changed in the last 5 years, technically cycling on the footway is an offence as, although part of the road, it has not been dedicated for traffic (which is good, because it stops nebends driving on 'em!).

Rights of Way 'Blue Book' also contradicts the advice on pushing your bike on a Footpath. Although considered acceptable, technically is also not permitted. Daft, I know, but there you have it!

Me personally, I try not to ride on footpaths. I can have sufficient fun on higher rights and dedicated trails. But that's just me. Can't be speaking for anyone else.