Switching to V-Brakes on a 2010 Tricross Sport

Mr Plum

Should I have any issues, and do I need to consider anything?

Gussio

You might be needing new levers. V-brake needs long pull, traditional cantis need short pull.

desweller

May I ask why?

Mr Plum

Gussio wrote:

You might be needing new levers. V-brake needs long pull, traditional cantis need short pull.

How would I find out for sure? I'm using standard Tiagra STI leavers at the moment.

Mr Plum

DesWeller wrote:

May I ask why?

By coincidence someone I know bought a second hand Tricross (I think 2008 Sport) and that came with Vs. I had a go and the stopping power is at least double what my cantis are, and I've got them set up well with decent pads. Just seems like a no-brainer.

desweller

I think the older Tricross came with mini-Vs... Obviously yours must have brake bosses on the fork and frame?

Mr Plum

DesWeller wrote:

I think the older Tricross came with mini-Vs... Obviously yours must have brake bosses on the fork and frame?

Indeed, bosses on the fork at the front and on the seatstays on the frame at the back. Seen what looks like a good deal on a set of Vs on eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT

Would these be compatible? I'd need to replace the cables and get some cable hose, but apart from that, is there anything I should think of?

desweller

I think this is more what you're after:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=34580

But I could be wrong...I would measure the length of your pal's brake arms before making a purchase if I were you.

Mr Plum

I don't think the mini Vs will be long enough to get over my mudguards as the clearance under the fork is huge meaning that the mudguard is mounted pretty high. He didn't have mudguards fitted. Might have to do some investigating...

redvee

Mini Vs will work with STI levers, or any other standard pull levers. My Tricross single came with full Vs but I changed to the Tektor mini Vs from CRC last summer along with Tektro levers and now have lo-pro TT bars and levers on my Tricross single.

Mr Plum

redvee wrote:

Mini Vs will work with STI levers, or any other standard pull levers. My Tricross single came with full Vs but I changed to the Tektor mini Vs from CRC last summer along with Tektro levers and now have lo-pro TT bars and levers on my Tricross single.

How come you changed to the mini Vs?

Gussio

DesWeller wrote:

May I ask why?

Mechanical advantage. Quote below is from Sheldon Brown.

Lever compatibility
Direct-pull cantilevers require special brake levers. Direct-pull brake levers pull the cable twice as far, half as hard. It is not generally safe to mix and match levers/cables between direct pull and other types for this reason.

•Conventional brake levers used with direct-pull cantilevers will usually not pull enough cable to stop in wet conditions without bottoming out against the handlebars. In dry conditions, they either won't work, or will grab too suddenly.
•Direct-pull brake levers used with any other type of brakes will feel nice and solid when you squeeze them, but you'll need to squeeze twice as hard to stop as you should, so unless you are a lightweight rider with gorilla-like paws, this combination isn't safe either.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-adjustment.html

Mr Plum

Gussio wrote:

DesWeller wrote:

May I ask why?

Mechanical advantage. Quote below is from Sheldon Brown.

Lever compatibility
Direct-pull cantilevers require special brake levers. Direct-pull brake levers pull the cable twice as far, half as hard. It is not generally safe to mix and match levers/cables between direct pull and other types for this reason.

•Conventional brake levers used with direct-pull cantilevers will usually not pull enough cable to stop in wet conditions without bottoming out against the handlebars. In dry conditions, they either won't work, or will grab too suddenly.
•Direct-pull brake levers used with any other type of brakes will feel nice and solid when you squeeze them, but you'll need to squeeze twice as hard to stop as you should, so unless you are a lightweight rider with gorilla-like paws, this combination isn't safe either.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-adjustment.html

I'm not sure I get the full gist of that... so where do I stand with my Tiagra leavers?

Gussio

Mr Plum wrote:

I'm not sure I get the full gist of that... so where do I stand with my Tiagra leavers?

I think that you can use STI levers with mini V's, but if you want to use them with standard V brakes you will need to add a cable pull adapter (eg travel agent).

You may find this helpful: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/canti-direct.html

redvee

Mr Plum wrote:

redvee wrote:

Mini Vs will work with STI levers, or any other standard pull levers. My Tricross single came with full Vs but I changed to the Tektor mini Vs from CRC last summer along with Tektro levers and now have lo-pro TT bars and levers on my Tricross single.

How come you changed to the mini Vs?

A long term plan that caome to fruition this year. Ran bike with full Vs and levers for a year, Mini Vs and standard levers last year, this year I went to ITM CDB wing bars and Promax brake levers. Got no gears to worry about so wanted the TT bars, been looking for a 31.8 pair on Ebay and forund the ITM pair for £7 all in

Mr Plum

Gussio wrote:

Mr Plum wrote:

I'm not sure I get the full gist of that... so where do I stand with my Tiagra leavers?

I think that you can use STI levers with mini V's, but if you want to use them with standard V brakes you will need to add a cable pull adapter (eg travel agent).

You may find this helpful: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/canti-direct.html

hmm, this is annoying because I'm pretty sure mini Vs won't fit over the top of my front mudguard.

sharky1029

I have seen (XTR) V's put on to a secteur with carbon stays. They worked fine with the levers (tiagra I think) however were to powerful so flexed the seat stay when pulled.

Lever compatibility shouln't be a problem and on a tricross I doubt that there would be any flex issues. I thought tricross' came standard with V's on some models anyway.

Mr Plum

sharky1029 wrote:

I have seen (XTR) V's put on to a secteur with carbon stays. They worked fine with the levers (tiagra I think) however were to powerful so flexed the seat stay when pulled.

Lever compatibility shouln't be a problem and on a tricross I doubt that there would be any flex issues. I thought tricross' came standard with V's on some models anyway.

Cheers for the info. I may just take a gamble and see if I can get them to work. At the same time I'll get rid of the emergency 'suicide brakes' on the bars and may as well change the bar tape whilst I'm at it as I'll need to replace the cable hose anyway.

Gussio

sharky1029 wrote:

I have seen (XTR) V's put on to a secteur with carbon stays. They worked fine with the levers (tiagra I think) however were to powerful so flexed the seat stay when pulled.
Lever compatibility shouln't be a problem and on a tricross I doubt that there would be any flex issues. I thought tricross' came standard with V's on some models anyway.

i.e. they didn't work fine

Gussio

Mr Plum wrote:

Cheers for the info. I may just take a gamble and see if I can get them to work. At the same time I'll get rid of the emergency 'suicide brakes' on the bars and may as well change the bar tape whilst I'm at it as I'll need to replace the cable hose anyway.

How about buying a set of v-specific levers (eg http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/22968/Tektro_RL_520_Drop_Bar_VBrake_Levers ) which you know will work and then selling your existing levers on fleabay?

nicklouse

Mr Plum wrote:

sharky1029 wrote:

I have seen (XTR) V's put on to a secteur with carbon stays. They worked fine with the levers (tiagra I think) however were to powerful so flexed the seat stay when pulled.

Lever compatibility shouln't be a problem and on a tricross I doubt that there would be any flex issues. I thought tricross' came standard with V's on some models anyway.

Cheers for the info. I may just take a gamble and see if I can get them to work.

you will find that the levers come to the bars and you have to run the pads very very close to the rims to get anything like half decent performance.

the cable pull is wrong.

Cantis/Mini Vs/ or Vs with a travel agent. that is your options.

have fun.

Mr Plum

Why is there more pull with standard V brakes?

desweller

Gussio wrote:

DesWeller wrote:

May I ask why?

Mechanical advantage. Quote below is from Sheldon Brown.

Lever compatibility
Direct-pull cantilevers require special brake levers. Direct-pull brake levers pull the cable twice as far, half as hard. It is not generally safe to mix and match levers/cables between direct pull and other types for this reason.

•Conventional brake levers used with direct-pull cantilevers will usually not pull enough cable to stop in wet conditions without bottoming out against the handlebars. In dry conditions, they either won't work, or will grab too suddenly.
•Direct-pull brake levers used with any other type of brakes will feel nice and solid when you squeeze them, but you'll need to squeeze twice as hard to stop as you should, so unless you are a lightweight rider with gorilla-like paws, this combination isn't safe either.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-adjustment.html

Thanks for that. I do understand the principles of leverage.

Brake and lever combinations are designed to return the same amount of force at the rim. So if you opt for a brake with a large arm length (V-brake) and combine it with a brake lever designed for a short brake arm (i.e. STIs) then you will have to run the brake pads very close to the rim surface to compensate for the lack of displacement.

nicklouse

Mr Plum wrote:

Why is there more pull with standard V brakes?

because there is.


that is the way it is.

ask the designers.

AndyOgy

You do know that the front mudguard (much like the rear) is removable, don't you?

Mr Plum

AndyOgy wrote:

You do know that the front mudguard (much like the rear) is removable, don't you?

Ah indeed, but this being a commuting/winter bike, and this being the UK, mudguards are almost as essential as the brakes themselves. I got caught in a downpour on my race bike last week and was quickly reminded what it's like to ride in the wet with no mudguards.

gbsahne001

nicklouse wrote:

Mr Plum wrote:

you will find that the levers come to the bars and you have to run the pads very very close to the rims to get anything like half decent performance.

the cable pull is wrong.

Cantis/Mini Vs/ or Vs with a travel agent. that is your options.

You'll also find that whilst it will work (to a degree) it will also feel wrong, as it feels very spongy and also feels as though they're not working until it grabs.

ror3h

I replaced the front canti on my Tricross with a mini-V, and the stopping power is much better. However I had to shorten my mudguard (had to cut off the front part), and it's not as easy to take out the front wheel. I didn't bother changing the back one as it doesn't need to be as powerful as the front brake.

Had no issues with cable pull with STI levers and the mini-V's. This is the one I fitted:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=34580

Mr Plum

The Mini Vs I ordered have 85mm arms and should get over the front mudguard by the looks of it. Not had a chance to fit them yet, might do it tomorrow afternoon if I get 10 minutes...

redvee

My Singlecross, same forks with 25 tyres and Roadracer mudguards with mini v-brakes.

Cretan Steve

hi, here's my penny's worth, if it's any use. I used Shimano V's with Shimano aero levers (non STI) but had to use 'Travel agents' to get it right, they're a bit fiddly to set up initially but once done they worked ok.