Riders knocked off by tour TV car

rick_chasey

Pross wrote:

As an aside I watched the circuit race series on Friday and there was a motorbike giving "VIPs" rides around behind the race. Given how tight the circuit was (it was taking about 80 seconds to complete a lap) I felt that having more than the TV camera bike on the circuit was an unnecessary risk especially as you could see about half of the circuit from the VIP tent in any case.

Part of the reason companies don't like sponsoring cycling teams is that corporate shmoozing is difficult for cycling. In football you get good seats, with golf you get VIP access to stand in a wet field (which people seem to love). Tennis is the same etc.

Cycling? Rubbish.

Solution? Whack a few cars behind with VIPs in to 'feel' the race.

Pross

Yeah, but these VIPs were a few local traders who chipped in a couple of hundred quid. They had a tented area with hospitality that gave them a view of the whole finish straight and one other side of the course.

rick_chasey

Pross wrote:

Yeah, but these VIPs were a few local traders who chipped in a couple of hundred quid. They had a tented area with hospitality that gave them a view of the whole finish straight and one other side of the course.

Sure, I mean more generally though.

mz__jo

stokepa31 wrote:

I read with interest on CKs twitter feed that the incident was not shown on the French TV highlights!!!!!!!!!!!!

It got a fair amount of airtime on the sporting programs. I think it is generally accepted that the mass french public is only interested in the french rider in yellow BUT if a french rider had been hit you can be certain that Sarko, Fillon and Guéant would all have risen up to condemn the incompetence of the driver (and probably use it as justification for all sort of totally unrelated traffic controls!)

RichN95.

mz__jo wrote:

stokepa31 wrote:

I read with interest on CKs twitter feed that the incident was not shown on the French TV highlights!!!!!!!!!!!!

It got a fair amount of airtime on the sporting programs. I think it is generally accepted that the mass french public is only interested in the french rider in yellow BUT if a french rider had been hit you can be certain that Sarko, Fillon and Guéant would all have risen up to condemn the incompetence of the driver (and probably use it as justification for all sort of totally unrelated traffic controls!)

If Voeckler had been hit, they would have been dusting off the guillotine.

LangerDan

Flecha reckons Tommy V put the boot down after the crash

Flecha was also critical of new race leader Voeckler’s attitude in the break. Asked how he felt about the French seeming to accelerate following the crash, Flecha replied: “I see that as normal behavior for Voeckler, because he’s always like that in breaks, causing trouble. Just before that, Casar, one of the others in the break, had had a go at him because Voeckler had attacked on a descent after attempting to win the mountains points instead of waiting for those of us who weren’t fighting for them. He was completely focused on the yellow jersey. We all know what he’s like, seeing him act in any other way would have surprised me.”

avoidingmyphd

mz__jo wrote:

stokepa31 wrote:

I read with interest on CKs twitter feed that the incident was not shown on the French TV highlights!!!!!!!!!!!!

It got a fair amount of airtime on the sporting programs. I think it is generally accepted that the mass french public is only interested in the french rider in yellow BUT if a french rider had been hit you can be certain that Sarko, Fillon and Guéant would all have risen up to condemn the incompetence of the driver (and probably use it as justification for all sort of totally unrelated traffic controls!)

Who is CK? There aren't really any highlights on French TV (I know, weird) and what there is did show the incident.

shockedsoshocked

LangerDan wrote:

Flecha reckons Tommy V put the boot down after the crash

Flecha was also critical of new race leader Voeckler’s attitude in the break. Asked how he felt about the French seeming to accelerate following the crash, Flecha replied: “I see that as normal behavior for Voeckler, because he’s always like that in breaks, causing trouble. Just before that, Casar, one of the others in the break, had had a go at him because Voeckler had attacked on a descent after attempting to win the mountains points instead of waiting for those of us who weren’t fighting for them. He was completely focused on the yellow jersey. We all know what he’s like, seeing him act in any other way would have surprised me.”

Surprised about this from Flecha. Didn't look like Voeckler attacked after the crash. Even if he had waited, the chasing peleton wouldn't have. I'm sure any rider would do the same for a day or two in yellow.

Pross

Voeckler looked back and even eased off a touch (I think he also had a brief chat with the others) before realising the break would not survive if they waited on the two crashed riders and pushing on. Bearing in mind the two lost over 20 minutes to the bunch I don't think it was realistic that they could have made it back and that the break would stay away.

verylonglegs

Haven't they got earpieces telling them what to do anyway?

alan_a

They've just mentioned on ES that Anti Doping woke Hoogerland this morning at 7am to dope test him. Outrageous... you know the guy is injured, why not wait until later in the morning?

avoidingmyphd

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

LangerDan wrote:

Flecha reckons Tommy V put the boot down after the crash

Flecha was also critical of new race leader Voeckler’s attitude in the break. Asked how he felt about the French seeming to accelerate following the crash, Flecha replied: “I see that as normal behavior for Voeckler, because he’s always like that in breaks, causing trouble. Just before that, Casar, one of the others in the break, had had a go at him because Voeckler had attacked on a descent after attempting to win the mountains points instead of waiting for those of us who weren’t fighting for them. He was completely focused on the yellow jersey. We all know what he’s like, seeing him act in any other way would have surprised me.”

Surprised about this from Flecha. Didn't look like Voeckler attacked after the crash. Even if he had waited, the chasing peloton wouldn't have. I'm sure any rider would do the same for a day or two in yellow.

He's wrong about the Casar incident as well. It was Hoogerland who wanted to push on after he and Voeckler jumped clear for the KOM points. Voeckler very clearly told him to calm down and allow the group to reform. At the end of the descent, Casar and Voeckler had a little argument. Casar could well have got the wrong end of the stick (and Flecha too), but I understood his argument with Voeckler to be the normal handbags about who does the work in a break where one rider can target yellow.

bilirubin

StanwaySteve62 wrote:

Never understood why the DS's drive as well as shouting instructions, passing bottles etc.
Seems an accident waiting to happen.

Spot on Steve, why has it never occured to teams to use cars with right hand drive, that way the DS's could shout instructions, use the radio and hand out bottles whilst someone else drives.

RowCycle

It looked to me like the driver of the car swerved more than necessary to avoid the tree. So I suspect they were watching the cycling, saw the tree late in the corner of their eye and swerved.

avoidingmyphd

Alan A wrote:

They've just mentioned on ES that Anti Doping woke Hoogerland this morning at 7am to dope test him. Outrageous... you know the guy is injured, why not wait until later in the morning?

He is tested quite a lot I think. Should being hit by a car give you special doping treatment? I'm (genuinely) not sure.

avoidingmyphd

bilirubin wrote:

StanwaySteve62 wrote:

Never understood why the DS's drive as well as shouting instructions, passing bottles etc.
Seems an accident waiting to happen.

Spot on Steve, why has it never occured to teams to use cars with right hand drive, that way the DS's could shout instructions, use the radio and hand out bottles whilst someone else drives.

You can do this in a left hand drive car as well I believe!

Pross

Possibly deliberate in case he used unauthorised pain relief?

chrisday

avoidingmyphd wrote:

Alan A wrote:

They've just mentioned on ES that Anti Doping woke Hoogerland this morning at 7am to dope test him. Outrageous... you know the guy is injured, why not wait until later in the morning?

He is tested quite a lot I think. Should being hit by a car give you special doping treatment? I'm (genuinely) not sure.

Nope, though I have massive sympathy and respect for Hoogerland, agree no special treatment for testing: if you're fit enough to race, you're fit enough to be tested.
Plus, isn't he going to be checked more often as a current jersey holder? Or does that only apply to post-stage tests?

prawny

Surely they could have just tested the blood trail from the fence to the hotel, no need to disturb him at all.

Anonymous

Rick Chasey wrote:

JamLala wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Have to say, of all the people this could happen to, Hoogerland's probably the most mad to make the best of it.

He's always had that self-destruct button that popular riders have. It also means he rides pretty stupidly at times.

Either way, can you imagine it happening, to, say, Gesink, or a French rider?...

A Hushovd type would be a little to matter of fact about it. With Hoogerland you get a guy who's always pretty open with his emotions.

For what was a pretty unfortunate accident, he's come off pretty well in the long term, assuming he heals up alright.

Flecha, who had similar stoicism, isn't getting the same chat (partly because his crash wasn't anywhere near as gory).

I have to say that none of your points above make any sense to me whatsoever!
Self destruct button?
What happening to Gesink or a French rider? I don't think you can avpoid a crash because you're French!
Come off well in the long term? Really?!

Drivel.

Gesink would whinge beyond belief, as would most French riders.

By self destruct button I mean they can turn themselves inside out in ways we couldn't dream of.

And coming off well? He's the most talked about man in the Netherlands, and in cycling.

He is the front page on at least one Dutch paper.

You think he'd get that if he won a stage? Not a chance. (This point was pretty much the only point 4 Dutch journalists round a table agreed upon for a whole 1hr discussion of the stage...)

Totally agree with you Rick. I also love it when sport gives you champions in opposite ways, seeing Flecha and Hoogerland coming in together at the end was really touching, getting back on (especially Hoogerland) and riding in encapsulates cycling for me.

skylla

avoidingmyphd wrote:

Alan A wrote:

They've just mentioned on ES that Anti Doping woke Hoogerland this morning at 7am to dope test him. Outrageous... you know the guy is injured, why not wait until later in the morning?

He is tested quite a lot I think. Should being hit by a car give you special doping treatment? I'm (genuinely) not sure.

If you carefully examine the second photo, you'll understand why he was going to be tested.

alan_a

skylla wrote:

avoidingmyphd wrote:

Alan A wrote:

They've just mentioned on ES that Anti Doping woke Hoogerland this morning at 7am to dope test him. Outrageous... you know the guy is injured, why not wait until later in the morning?

He is tested quite a lot I think. Should being hit by a car give you special doping treatment? I'm (genuinely) not sure.

If you carefully examine the second photo, you'll understand why he was going to be tested.

My point is that it was well documented yesterday that JH had spent Sunday night having nightmares, thus - considering the nature of the crash - on monday morning would deserve a long lie. Let him sleep until 9 or 10 am then test.

As for 2nd photo... I assume you're referring to his unusual lumps and allegations it shows signs of possible damage from frequent intramuscular injections.

skylla

Alan A wrote:

skylla wrote:

avoidingmyphd wrote:

Alan A wrote:

They've just mentioned on ES that Anti Doping woke Hoogerland this morning at 7am to dope test him. Outrageous... you know the guy is injured, why not wait until later in the morning?

He is tested quite a lot I think. Should being hit by a car give you special doping treatment? I'm (genuinely) not sure.

If you carefully examine the second photo, you'll understand why he was going to be tested.

My point is that it was well documented yesterday that JH had spent Sunday night having nightmares, thus - considering the nature of the crash - on monday morning would deserve a long lie. Let him sleep until 9 or 10 am then test.

As for 2nd photo... I assume you're referring to his unusual lumps and allegations it shows signs of possible damage from frequent intramuscular injections.

No rest for the wicked, I say!

edit: ps: I would have known what to show them at that time of the day. Btw, why would they have known he was having nightmares if he was still asleep at 7am... you thinking what i'm thinking?

whitestar1

What is the status of the French Media Car now?

shockedsoshocked

Alan A wrote:

skylla wrote:

avoidingmyphd wrote:

Alan A wrote:

They've just mentioned on ES that Anti Doping woke Hoogerland this morning at 7am to dope test him. Outrageous... you know the guy is injured, why not wait until later in the morning?

He is tested quite a lot I think. Should being hit by a car give you special doping treatment? I'm (genuinely) not sure.

If you carefully examine the second photo, you'll understand why he was going to be tested.

My point is that it was well documented yesterday that JH had spent Sunday night having nightmares, thus - considering the nature of the crash - on monday morning would deserve a long lie. Let him sleep until 9 or 10 am then test.

As for 2nd photo... I assume you're referring to his unusual lumps and allegations it shows signs of possible damage from frequent intramuscular injections.

If you're in the race you're subject to the same controls as anyone else. No exceptions I guess!

tonyf34

celbianchi wrote:

tonyf34 wrote:

Firstly IF the TV car was in the way and knowing the roads were narrow why didn't the commissaire ask the riders teams to instruct them (the riders) to momentarily move over to allow the TV car to get past.

Correct me if I am wrong here but the event centred around which rider gets to the finish line first, not which vehicle. The event is about the riders, they were riding safely, bike racing is not about moving over to allow some impatient clown behind a wheel through.

Sorry but how have you come to that conclusion from what I wrote? ( And how I'm not sure :? )
IF the car was required to get out of the way so drinks/food could be passed to the riders then it makes sense for the commissaire to communicate this to the car in the way(AS they won't be in that loop from riders to team car) BUT also to let the riders know (via the teams) that the TV car would need to come through to allow the team car up to them. Aside from the fact it was piss poor driving where else is the TV car going to go as they cannot come to a complete stop at that point.
Do you not think for the safety of the riders and to ensure that they get their supplies that people in the metal boxes AND the riders should be notified of what's going on?:
Now tell me again where I said the race isn't centred around the riders and their safety which I clearly said was the only priority! I noted everything IMO what the driver/commissaires did wrong.
You might want to think about what you say before laying criticism on individuals comments when clearly you've not fully understood what has been said!

markos1963

I was talking to a non cycling person today(I do sometimes,it keeps me abreast of happenings in the outside world) They had seen the incident on TV and we were talking about who was to blame. Guess what! according to my mate it was the cyclists fault! Because he was a cyclist and the car was bigger and faster he should have got out of the way!!!
And we wonder why we get so much grief out on the roads :roll:

graeme_s-2

bilirubin wrote:

why has it never occured to teams to use cars with right hand drive, that way the DS's could shout instructions, use the radio and hand out bottles whilst someone else drives.

Presumably the driver needs to be on the same side of the car as the cyclist so they can see where the cyclist is, match speed and not hit them. The downside of this is that all the interactions between the car and the rider need to go through the driver, who will have to be the DS

graeme_s-2

Graeme_S wrote:

bilirubin wrote:

why has it never occured to teams to use cars with right hand drive, that way the DS's could shout instructions, use the radio and hand out bottles whilst someone else drives.

Presumably the driver needs to be on the same side of the car as the cyclist so they can see where the cyclist is, match speed and not hit them. The downside of this is that all the interactions between the car and the rider need to go through the driver, who will have to be the DS

Hmm. As I was writing this I was half watching Thor Hushovd getting his shoe fixed by a mechanic hanging out of the rear passenger side window. What I said was total rubbish, ignore me!

cougie

I'm not sure what my bum would look like after hitting a fence post and barbed wire at 50kmh. I can't see that there's much evidence of doping from that photo ?
My wife injects insulin and she's not scarred ?