Riders knocked off by tour TV car

CyclingBantam

dougzz wrote:

Definitely time to think again about the volume of motorised vehicles though. TV tech stuff, races judges, that sort of thing, but why so many cars that are just full of string pullers?

It always seems to me that the vehicles outnumber bikes about 5 to 1 if you're roadside for an entire stage.

Absolutely look at it. They really should think if all those car's need to be there, however, lets not make any stupid descisions based on a freak accident. It needs to be looked at rationally.

k-dog

dougzz wrote:

Definitely time to think again about the volume of motorised vehicles though. TV tech stuff, races judges, that sort of thing, but why so many cars that are just full of string pullers?

It always seems to me that the vehicles outnumber bikes about 5 to 1 if you're roadside for an entire stage.

Definitely. I was watching it yesterday and my 5 year old came in. He asked what it was and I told him - he said "it looks easy - they're on motorbikes".

He was right - there were far more motorbikes and cars on screen than cyclists. It's getting ridiculous.

ademort

Latest news here in the Netherlands is that the French police are investigating the incident and that charges could follow.Tour boss Prudhomme is adamant that he did not tell the French technicians to overtake the riders but he told them to move out of the way to allow Voecklers team car to pass with a bidon. Dare say we have not heard the last of this.
I live in Zeeland near to where Hoogerland lives and i can tell you he is a Hero at the moment, everybody is talking about him. Really hope he gets back on the bike tomorrow. A True Sportsman and a Real Gent if you ask me.
Ademort

StageWinner

While the number of cars and bikes does seem to be high - would all those here that are calling for less of them be happy with the loss of TV coverage and great photos that we currently enjoy?

Should we just have helicopter coverage instead?

Monty Dog

But do the cars need to accompany the peloton? I suspect a lot of the vehicles are only carrying VIPs and sponsors who have nothing directly to do with the race. The vast majority of the traffic is well ahead and behind the riders. Apart from team cars, commissaires and medical support, there should be no other cars.

cogidubnus

StageWinner wrote:

While the number of cars and bikes does seem to be high - would all those here that are calling for less of them be happy with the loss of TV coverage and great photos that we currently enjoy?

Should we just have helicopter coverage instead?

The car that hit them wasn't filming anything. If we stripped back all the non team and race officials cars that would be a good start

dennisn

dougzz wrote:

TV tech stuff, races judges, that sort of thing, but why so many cars that are just full of string pullers?

Why? Because they have the money or are part of the money train that is the tour. You, me, if we had the money wouldn't we be there?

RichN95.

dennisn wrote:

dougzz wrote:

TV tech stuff, races judges, that sort of thing, but why so many cars that are just full of string pullers?

Why? Because they have the money or are part of the money train that is the tour. You, me, if we had the money wouldn't we be there?

Football has big money sponsors too, but you don't see them on the bleeding pitch.

StanwaySteve62

Johnny defo came across as a class act, not seen anything about the lumps on his ass ?

Doobz

I posted some articles a months or so ago from Gerard Vroomen titled "CYCLING VEHICLES – THE SOLUTION"

Maybe someone should have read his blog before the tour!

Part 1
http://www.cervelo.com/en_us/news-blog/ ... rt-1/2761/

Part 2
http://www.cervelo.com/en_us/news-blog/ ... rt-2/2763/

Part 3
http://www.cervelo.com/en_us/news-blog/ ... rt-3/2772/

dennisn

RichN95 wrote:

dennisn wrote:

dougzz wrote:

TV tech stuff, races judges, that sort of thing, but why so many cars that are just full of string pullers?

Why? Because they have the money or are part of the money train that is the tour. You, me, if we had the money wouldn't we be there?

Football has big money sponsors too, but you don't see them on the bleeding pitch.

Not sure how that comparison works. :? :?

Doobz

Orthopedic therapist of Vacansoleil DCM checks the cold compression system at Johnny Hoogerland

RichN95.

dennisn wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Football has big money sponsors too, but you don't see them on the bleeding pitch.

Not sure how that comparison works. :? :?

Because sponsors don't have right to go wherever they want just because their company has paid some money. If the organisers want to show them the race, send them up in a helicopter.

LeicesterLad

RichN95 wrote:

dennisn wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Football has big money sponsors too, but you don't see them on the bleeding pitch.

Not sure how that comparison works. :? :?

Because sponsors don't have right to go wherever they want just because their company has paid some money. If the organisers want to show them the race, send them up in a helicopter.

Couldn't agree more Rich, and Dennisn the comparrison is easy, Sponsors in football pay lots and lots of money to clubs but do not feel the need to run on and kick a ball before the final whistle, in cycling sponsors pay lots and lots of money and Do expect to drive around like tw*ts and endanger lives. As for the what about TV camera debate - With exception to the motorbike incident earlier in the week, most of the camera bikes are extrememly able riders, highly trained and highly skilled, so this isn't such an issue, as for ponsey french journalists who are not actually filming anything and don't know how to drive, yes they should not be allowed in the race. If they are taking notes then they may aswell just watch the telly, deffinately no need to be on the road :x

Doobz

DS Michel tells at dinner: "After hoogerland asked for a new pair of shorts and the doctor he asked for an allen key to fix his handle bars."

hardcore!!

BarryBonds

Keith1983 wrote:

I appreciate that there is an inherent danger with cycle racing, but did nobody at any point think, barbed wire fences and cyclists travelling at speed would best be avoided?

Cock of the tour award

dennisn

LeicesterLad wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

dennisn wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Football has big money sponsors too, but you don't see them on the bleeding pitch.

Not sure how that comparison works. :? :?

Because sponsors don't have right to go wherever they want just because their company has paid some money. If the organisers want to show them the race, send them up in a helicopter.

Couldn't agree more Rich, and Dennisn the comparrison is easy, Sponsors in football pay lots and lots of money to clubs but do not feel the need to run on and kick a ball before the final whistle, in cycling sponsors pay lots and lots of money and Do expect to drive around like tw*ts and endanger lives. As for the what about TV camera debate - With exception to the motorbike incident earlier in the week, most of the camera bikes are extrememly able riders, highly trained and highly skilled, so this isn't such an issue, as for ponsey french journalists who are not actually filming anything and don't know how to drive, yes they should not be allowed in the race. If they are taking notes then they may aswell just watch the telly, deffinately no need to be on the road :x

Don't believe I've ever seen an auto in a football game. I agree that there are most likely a few too many cars on the road out there and some of them serve no purpose in helping the race move along but it would appear that it's been that way for some time and unless the riders complain about it I don't see it as a problem for you and I. Nothing we can do. Yet I'm still wondering how a rider getting mowed down by a car relates to football.

LangerDan

The "corporate box" of the Tour - or any other race for that matter - has always been to travel in a race vehicle, whether it be with Prudhomme, a team car or some event sponsors. And it most cases, its been fine. I would hazard a guess that more triders have been hit an injured by race officials and team vehicles rather than by the "prawn sandwich" brigade.

Helicopters certainly aren't the answer - the peleton frequently give out about not being able to hear the squeal of braking further up the bunch because of helicopter noise. And thats just with a couple of low-level copters.

Cav made the best suggestion - formal training for cavalcade dirivers.

IanLD

When I first saw the tour live back in 1980 I was surprised at the number of vehicles, but they were largely caravane publicitaire with far fewer team vehicles and media vehicles.

Last time I saw it live in 2008, it was staggering how many vehicles were there. I really thought the number had grown out of all proportion and also out of control. For a cycling event it seemed to be more about hundreds of cars driving round France with some cyclists thrown in to the mix.

I agree that media and sponsors should have some degree of exposure to the stage, but this should be restricted to wider and safer areas. I would also suggest that they can only pass on one side of the riders, so they know which side to expect a car to come from. At any point when a rider does not make it clear for a car to pass, they must hold back until the rider decides to let them through.

Don't know how well that could be put in to practice, but a universally agreed system would help everyone including the drivers.

rick_chasey

Have to say, of all the people this could happen to, Hoogerland's probably the most mad to make the best of it.

He's always had that self-destruct button that popular riders have. It also means he rides pretty stupidly at times.

Either way, can you imagine it happening, to, say, Gesink, or a French rider?...

A Hushovd type would be a little to matter of fact about it. With Hoogerland you get a guy who's always pretty open with his emotions.

For what was a pretty unfortunate accident, he's come off pretty well in the long term, assuming he heals up alright.

Flecha, who had similar stoicism, isn't getting the same chat (partly because his crash wasn't anywhere near as gory).

jamlala

Rick Chasey wrote:

Have to say, of all the people this could happen to, Hoogerland's probably the most mad to make the best of it.

He's always had that self-destruct button that popular riders have. It also means he rides pretty stupidly at times.

Either way, can you imagine it happening, to, say, Gesink, or a French rider?...

A Hushovd type would be a little to matter of fact about it. With Hoogerland you get a guy who's always pretty open with his emotions.

For what was a pretty unfortunate accident, he's come off pretty well in the long term, assuming he heals up alright.

Flecha, who had similar stoicism, isn't getting the same chat (partly because his crash wasn't anywhere near as gory).

I have to say that none of your points above make any sense to me whatsoever!
Self destruct button?
What happening to Gesink or a French rider? I don't think you can avpoid a crash because you're French!
Come off well in the long term? Really?!

Drivel.

rick_chasey

JamLala wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Have to say, of all the people this could happen to, Hoogerland's probably the most mad to make the best of it.

He's always had that self-destruct button that popular riders have. It also means he rides pretty stupidly at times.

Either way, can you imagine it happening, to, say, Gesink, or a French rider?...

A Hushovd type would be a little to matter of fact about it. With Hoogerland you get a guy who's always pretty open with his emotions.

For what was a pretty unfortunate accident, he's come off pretty well in the long term, assuming he heals up alright.

Flecha, who had similar stoicism, isn't getting the same chat (partly because his crash wasn't anywhere near as gory).

I have to say that none of your points above make any sense to me whatsoever!
Self destruct button?
What happening to Gesink or a French rider? I don't think you can avpoid a crash because you're French!
Come off well in the long term? Really?!

Drivel.

Gesink would whinge beyond belief, as would most French riders.

By self destruct button I mean they can turn themselves inside out in ways we couldn't dream of.

And coming off well? He's the most talked about man in the Netherlands, and in cycling.

He is the front page on at least one Dutch paper.

You think he'd get that if he won a stage? Not a chance. (This point was pretty much the only point 4 Dutch journalists round a table agreed upon for a whole 1hr discussion of the stage...)

jamlala

Rick Chasey wrote:

JamLala wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Have to say, of all the people this could happen to, Hoogerland's probably the most mad to make the best of it.

He's always had that self-destruct button that popular riders have. It also means he rides pretty stupidly at times.

Either way, can you imagine it happening, to, say, Gesink, or a French rider?...

A Hushovd type would be a little to matter of fact about it. With Hoogerland you get a guy who's always pretty open with his emotions.

For what was a pretty unfortunate accident, he's come off pretty well in the long term, assuming he heals up alright.

Flecha, who had similar stoicism, isn't getting the same chat (partly because his crash wasn't anywhere near as gory).

I have to say that none of your points above make any sense to me whatsoever!
Self destruct button?
What happening to Gesink or a French rider? I don't think you can avpoid a crash because you're French!
Come off well in the long term? Really?!

Drivel.

Gesink would whinge beyond belief, as would most French riders.

By self destruct button I mean they can turn themselves inside out in ways we couldn't dream of.

And coming off well? He's the most talked about man in the Netherlands, and in cycling.

He is the front page on at least one Dutch paper.

You think he'd get that if he won a stage? Not a chance. (This point was pretty much the only point 4 Dutch journalists round a table agreed upon for a whole 1hr discussion of the stage...)

Most talked about man in Holland, but will have zebra legs for the rest of his life! Did you see those gouges?!

oldwelshman

Doobz wrote:

Orthopedic therapist of Vacansoleil DCM checks the cold compression system at Johnny Hoogerland

Team bondage wow

tonyf34

Was it Paul Sherwin saying the drivers were ex-riders? Which I thought didn't make sense in terms of ability to drive a car, understanding group/pro riding but clearly it gives you no qualification in advanced driving techniques.
To me it stems from a massive lack of communication.
Firstly IF the TV car was in the way and knowing the roads were narrow why didn't the commissaire ask the riders teams to instruct them (the riders) to momentarily move over to allow the TV car to get past.
IF the commissaire did instruct the TV car to get out of the way then a clear instruction to proceed only when safe to do so should have been given as a reminder given the terrain (trees in close proximity to the road which is very common in France anyways)

The then near catastrophic failure of the driver of the TV car who if in contact with the commissaire should have told them to let the riders know they were wanting to get past and still he could have tooted his horn to give an indication he wanted to come through. I can see that he was probably under pressure to get out of the way but didn't take safety as their first AND ONLY PRIORITY in the circumstances.
They failed to read the road ahead, didn't anticpiate that riders move around the carriageway narrowing the room which might have been there seconds before and badly misjudged an overtake when braking would have been the lesser of two evils as the motorbike behind might well have crashed into the back of the TV car had it braked as it was riding way too close also not leaving enough room.
Piss poor all round and re-inforcement of protocol & communication needs to be sorted.
I would expect a complete denial from the commissaires of any wrong doing on their part :roll:

celbianchi

tonyf34 wrote:

Firstly IF the TV car was in the way and knowing the roads were narrow why didn't the commissaire ask the riders teams to instruct them (the riders) to momentarily move over to allow the TV car to get past.

Correct me if I am wrong here but the event centred around which rider gets to the finish line first, not which vehicle. The event is about the riders, they were riding safely, bike racing is not about moving over to allow some impatient clown behind a wheel through.

StanwaySteve62

Never understood why the DS's drive as well as shouting instructions, passing bottles etc.
Seems an accident waiting to happen.

lucybears

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Yc9ugsi ... ata_player

Le Commentateur

tonyf34 wrote:

Was it Paul Sherwin saying the drivers were ex-riders? Which I thought didn't make sense in terms of ability to drive a car, understanding group/pro riding but clearly it gives you no qualification in advanced driving techniques.
To me it stems from a massive lack of communication.
Firstly IF the TV car was in the way and knowing the roads were narrow why didn't the commissaire ask the riders teams to instruct them (the riders) to momentarily move over to allow the TV car to get past.
IF the commissaire did instruct the TV car to get out of the way then a clear instruction to proceed only when safe to do so should have been given as a reminder given the terrain (trees in close proximity to the road which is very common in France anyways)

The then near catastrophic failure of the driver of the TV car who if in contact with the commissaire should have told them to let the riders know they were wanting to get past and still he could have tooted his horn to give an indication he wanted to come through. I can see that he was probably under pressure to get out of the way but didn't take safety as their first AND ONLY PRIORITY in the circumstances.
They failed to read the road ahead, didn't anticpiate that riders move around the carriageway narrowing the room which might have been there seconds before and badly misjudged an overtake when braking would have been the lesser of two evils as the motorbike behind might well have crashed into the back of the TV car had it braked as it was riding way too close also not leaving enough room.
wee-wee poor all round and re-inforcement of protocol & communication needs to be sorted.
I would expect a complete denial from the commissaires of any wrong doing on their part :roll:

I doubt the France TV car's driver was one of the ex-riders that the teams and ASO apparently use. The road was obviously narrower once and gradual widening has resulted in the trees being right on the edge of the asphalt: Driver saw the tree at the last moment and made the wrong decision for the riders, though abrupt braking might have caused a pile up behind. Would have been much worse if the car had clipped the trunk of the tree and spun into the riders.

Pross

I suspect the driver was too busy trying to watch the race themselves rather than just concentrating on driving. I'm not sure if Sky's possibility to sue is the right way to go though, it would possibly get drivers to pay more attention but could start a slippery slope where riders start sueing each other for crashes where they feel another rider is at fault. Definately too many cars on the race though.

As an aside I watched the circuit race series on Friday and there was a motorbike giving "VIPs" rides around behind the race. Given how tight the circuit was (it was taking about 80 seconds to complete a lap) I felt that having more than the TV camera bike on the circuit was an unnecessary risk especially as you could see about half of the circuit from the VIP tent in any case.