"Flats & 5,10s"......WOW.

supersonic

evo3ben wrote:

Surely being able to pull up reduces the amount of presure (muscle use) on the other leg meaning that over a set distance one set of muscles are not as fatigued due to the sharing of work load. Effictively this will enable you to either go further or faster over a set distance?????

But the hamstrings are much less efficient than your quads.

evo3ben

But your still sharing the work load over the muscle range more than you would with flats allowing you to go a further distance or faster over a short distance before one set of muscles fail?

Another big factor i see with spd's over flats is the shoe range. 5:10's are mega heavy and if they get wet they are like lead weights. You could wear a pair of light trainers but the flat pedal pins would shread the sole of them in no time. Vans are ok but not as hard wearing, strong and solid as a pair of spd shoes.

IMPO, anything competition i.e. marathons, races or even training etc, use spd's.

supersonic

The studies I link to explain this - it is more efficient to use the bigger better developed quads (for most people). The hams fatigue quickly and burn up your energy reserves.

I agree with the weight of the shoes those, I like to where light weight shoes with my pedals.

Anonymous

peter413 wrote:

Yeeha, what benefit are you saying they give?

I've already said - a better interface between your foot and the pedal. They also make it easier to pedal right from the top of the stroke, right down to the bottom. They also make it less likely (almost impossible in fact) to accidentally raise your foot off the pedal when unweighting (which is what people are doing when they think they're pulling)

evo3ben wrote:

Surely being able to pull up reduces the amount of presure (muscle use) on the other leg

No. Doesn't work like that. Your legs cannot possibly support your weight, AND push AND pull. If you want to pull, you'r pulling against the saddle.

Leave it, this isn't the place for it. Google it, this has been discussed ad nauseum.

evo3ben

So if that is the case, why do 99% of racers wear spd's if they are of no benifit to muscle use. Only thing i can think of is not slipping off the pedals and foot position but even so, the pro's wear spd's and im pretty sure they dont have issues with foot positioning with out the use of spd's.

I done a marathon last year with 5:10's on and it was mega muddy and wet. Never again lol

supersonic

179 pages here:

http://www.cyclingforums.com/forum/thre ... -push-down

Anonymous

evo3ben wrote:

So if that is the case, why do 99% of racers wear spd's if they are of no benifit to muscle use

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Being attatched doesn't give you extra power, the stiffer sole does.

yeehaamcgee wrote:

The benefit comes from the stiffer soles, and better interface between feet and pedals.

yeehaamcgee wrote:

peter413 wrote:

Yeeha, what benefit are you saying they give?

I've already said - a better interface between your foot and the pedal. They also make it easier to pedal right from the top of the stroke, right down to the bottom. They also make it less likely (almost impossible in fact) to accidentally raise your foot off the pedal when unweighting (which is what people are doing when they think they're pulling)

There's no wonder this keeps coming up over and over again, when people refuse to read.

Anonymous

I recently switched to flats and skate shoes on my single speed run around bike. Had a few trips in the woods and do like the added confidence knowing you can put a foot down easier.

But when I did notice they weren't so good is when accelerating/sprinting hard, especially shortish sharp hills were when clipped in could lean forward on the bars, stand up and sprint like mad. I'm not going in to the whole 'pull up' debate but it dose seem being physically connected to the bike dose allow you to go faster in certain situations.

evo3ben

Ok, alot of reading there lol

I must agree its definately a rider preference. But what i cant understand, and this is from my personal experience, why am i now beating all my personal best times, not by seconds but by minutes (one by 9 minutes) if there is no difference??

supersonic

Because there is a difference to you ie the personal preference bit! SPDs may allow you to pedal closer to optimum than a flat. Many may find it the other way round. Depends how you pedal.

Anonymous

evo3ben wrote:

But what i cant understand, and this is from my personal experience, why am i now beating all my personal best times, not by seconds but by minutes (one by 9 minutes) if there is no difference??

Nobody's said there was no difference.

Mental Mickey

Swiftyx2 wrote:

Hi,

Flats = Wellgo MG-1, Gold finish.

I'm officially 6 feet under but come back from pushing up the daises to tell you about these little budget price beauties.

£29 and bad ass booyakasha and ting.

http://www.carboncycles.cc/?s=0&t=2&c=84&p=940&

Deepunder

Mental Mickey wrote:

Swiftyx2 wrote:

Hi,

Flats = Wellgo MG-1, Gold finish.

I'm officially 6 feet under but come back from pushing up the daises to tell you about these little budget price beauties.

£29 and bad ass booyakasha and ting.

http://www.carboncycles.cc/?s=0&t=2&c=84&p=940&

These look like Superstar nano tech flats but a lot cheaper? anyone got a set?...shame about the dull colour

Shaggy_Dog

SPD's are definitely a Marmite thing, you either swear by them or hate them. I pretty much only ride clipped in but used to own a big hitting bike that I'd occasionally run flats on and I can see the appeal. I'm terrible at getting airborne when clipped in, I can't seem to manual or bunnyhop as well either. Personally, I don't find getting unclipped a problem, my foot can be on the ground just as fast, if not faster on clips than flats.

Anonymous

Shaggy_Dog wrote:

my foot can be on the ground just as fast, if not faster on clips than flats.

What? "Just as fast", sure, fair enough in a lot of circumstances. But FASTER? Oh come on.

cooldad

I've seen peoples heads on the ground faster on clips than flats.

CycloRos

what's a million times more important than the old spd vs flats debate is good pedalling technique.

pedalling in circles at a higher cadence rather than simply mashing a high gear does wonders for your speed and efficiency.

oh five-tens and flats all the way btw!

Anonymous

CycloRos wrote:

pedalling in circles at a higher cadence rather than simply mashing a high gear does wonders for your speed and efficiency.

well.......
Read Sonic's link.

Northwind

Shaggy_Dog wrote:

Personally, I don't find getting unclipped a problem, my foot can be on the ground just as fast, if not faster on clips than flats.

Aye right.

Anonymous

It's those pins you see. They're too grippy so can't get the foot off the pedal quick enough. Obviously clipped in is better as it doesn't anchor your feet to the bike as well a flats.

Anonymous

Deepunder

Deepunder wrote:

Mental Mickey wrote:

Swiftyx2 wrote:

Hi,

Flats = Wellgo MG-1, Gold finish.

I'm officially 6 feet under but come back from pushing up the daises to tell you about these little budget price beauties.

£29 and bad ass booyakasha and ting.

http://www.carboncycles.cc/?s=0&t=2&c=84&p=940&

These look like Superstar nano tech flats but a lot cheaper? anyone got a set?...shame about the dull colour

Seriously though, has anyone on here tried these Carbon Cycles flats out? Seem a good price if same as Nano's? I need new gear, my DMR V8's are down to 50% pins so I can just about 'unclip' if I need to dab.

supersonic

They look similar as the Nanos/HT/Wah Wahs, but not exactly the same.

But for the money, Wellgo MG1 are about the best for 30 quid.

Northwind

They're another HT Nano-of-some-sort. But they're also out of stock.

peter413

deadkenny wrote:

It's those pins you see. They're too grippy so can't get the foot off the pedal quick enough. Obviously clipped in is better as it doesn't anchor your feet to the bike as well a flats.

It's a completely different sort of attached though. One is relying on the grip "attaching" you to the pedal so you have to lift/unweight your foot to get it off the pedal. Whereas the other attaches to the bottom of your shoe using a clip in mechanism so you just have to slide your foot to release it from the pedal. Yes I know you know all that already but ah well. I agree with shaggy_dog that you could get your foot down quicker with clips. Wether you can or not though is all down to the rider, I have at times from reactions got my foot down quicker using clips but then I've never ridden the same track on flats so I couldn't make a direct comparison, may just have been luck but I would have fallen if I had been as slow as usual.

paul.skibum

Interestingly since riding in BC this summer I have been riding DH bikes (a Norco A Line which is not the first bike I'd chose but its free and available) with flats in my skate shoes - as a long term clippy boy I thought I'd find it tricky but its been fine - as long as the shoes grip its all good - had a quick ride today on a green in my hike shoes as they were all I had with me and that was not good.

I am still riding xc/trail rides clipped in and thats fine too.

I am considering some 5.10's if I get a proper DH bike but cant see me having the cash anytime soon so I'll probably stick with the skate shoes on the Norco.

CycloRos

yeehaamcgee wrote:

CycloRos wrote:

pedalling in circles at a higher cadence rather than simply mashing a high gear does wonders for your speed and efficiency.

well.......
Read Sonic's link.

I have, and it doesn't disprove what I'm saying.

All I'm saying is that pedalling a lower gear at a higher cadence is a lot less tiring than mashing a higher gear at a lower cadence, you don't need a great big science paper to prove that.

Anyway those tests were done under 'steady-state' conditions, surely in reality the variety of terrain your average mountain bike trail throws up makes the findings a bit irrelevant for us?

paul.skibum

I agree that lifting the pedal up doesnt work but a circular motion of pedalling means you can be pushing the pedal forward from about 10 (on a clock face) and back through to about 7 or 8 leaving less of the pedal stroke with no power inout from one leg.

Whether this is possible in flats I have yet to determine - I can certainly imagine it loses some efficiency.

But ultimately I am not that bothered - I'm not racing anyone except myself what ever I have on my feet!

Anonymous

CycloRos, read them again. you'll see that they find that the most efficient way to pedal, is to do what you're used to, basically.

Atz

Can we agree some sort of treaty where we don't have any more pedal threads? If we all just agree "Ride whatever the hell you want, they all work okay but some may suit you better" we can just paste "Please see the Pedal Treaty of 2011 sticky" and be on with our day.