Phone hacking/hackers
Comments
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Rick Chasey wrote:The public clamour and cry for blood and bait, and then get outraged by this? Either have your cake and eat it, or stop asking for it.
People are, generally, asking for cake. In this case cake is not what they have been given.
I think there is a fundamental difference in this case, and that is why there is more outrage.Mañana0 -
Ok then, in a nutshell: My opinion:
Celebs = fair game
Grieving parents = not fair game
The law is often open to interpretation and sometimes relies on the integrity and judgment of people employed to work therein. Privacy laws exist for good reason - yes. But the law needs to come down harder in this instance.
Forgive me but I'm never going to spill tears for the slebs who's phone's were hacked - most of them are repulsive publicity junkies who thrive on gutter journalism they claim to seek protection from. Not comparable with the Dowlers and McCanns.0 -
Its about time someone went to jail for this, they've plumbed new depths, so low its beneath contempt.
There was also a story on R2 this morning regarding another high profile case (i think it was the Raul Moat business)...had it gone to court, the case would have been wrecked at worst, compromised at best because of media reporting.
NOTW couldnt go bust soon enough for me, but i guess it'd be a vain hope that the Briitish public as a whole would take umbrage and stop buying the bloody thing. Put em out of business, put the editors etc in jail.
And i think the Police have given the whole saga a very light dusting over in the past, they want their ar$es kicking too.0 -
IronHorse100 wrote:Ok then, in a nutshell: My opinion:
Celebs = fair game
Grieving parents = not fair game
The law is often open to interpretation and sometimes relies on the integrity and judgment of people employed to work therein. Privacy laws exist for good reason - yes. But the law needs to come down harder in this instance.
Forgive me but I'm never going to spill tears for the slebs who's phone's were hacked - most of them are repulsive publicity junkies who thrive on gutter journalism they claim to seek protection from. Not comparable with the Dowlers and McCanns.
I can't see why anyone is fair game. There's a difference between complaining about being photographed in public when they usually court publicity for all it's worth and this. It's akin to the press breaaking into all their houses and poking about. Can't be right."There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world, t'would be a pity to damage yours."0 -
I do think rick needs to look up the definition of the verb 'to court' in relation to the McCanns and the Dowlers, it's in no way applicable.
Either way phone hacking is wrong, completely unwarranted invasion of privacy.The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.0 -
Dabber wrote:Agreed... absolute scum. Close down te NOTW and throw away the key for those directly involved.
+1
I hate Murdoch, and try to avoid giving his corporation any of my money.Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
I agre with Rick generally here, apart from the crass line about the Dowlers seeking publicity. desperate and sick with worry parents is really not the same thing at all as someone poncing about in a bikini for Maxim or selling their wedding to Hello.
but otherwise, agree, theres a difference even in celeb land between courting publicity and having your personal private mobile telephone invaded and effectively spied upon or stolen from.
A far as I'm aware there hasn't been an allegation of deletion previously. this for me is the sick and disgusting part of the Milly Dowler episode and what really elevates it from naughty hacks to warped manipulative bastards that should go to jail.
If it happened now then maybe there wouldn't be quite such emotions in the family or naivety from the investigators, but in 2002 this wasn't a known phenomenon and to most civilian people (ie not MI6, KGB or certain bits of the cops) would be unthinkable so if the Dowlers were aware that the contents of her answerphone were on the move the hope of her being alive coupled with the fear of what she was going through must have been immense.0 -
Cleat Eastwood wrote:I do think rick needs to look up the definition of the verb 'to court' in relation to the McCanns and the Dowlers, it's in no way applicable.
Either way phone hacking is wrong, completely unwarranted invasion of privacy.
Personally I don't see how the dowlers and the McCanns can be mentioned in the same breath; when refering to the manner in which their respective children were taken.Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
Rebekah Brookes is ginger and as everyone knows, ginger people are evil.0
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"I hope that you all realise it is inconceivable that I knew or worse, sanctioned these appalling allegations."
I can readily conceive of such a scenario:
Editor in Chief: " What story shall we run with today? Anyone got any new info on this big missing schoolgirl case?
Senior reporter " Yes Ive got some great information on someone impersonating her and using her phone number "
Editor in Chief " How do you know the story is true"
Senior Reporter "We picked it up off her mobile phone answering service"
Editor in Chief " That's good enough for me, lets run with it."
Now I'm not suggesting that it ever happened but in a series of possible scenarios, it fits into the box of conceivable ones.
Inconceivable would be:
"We interviewed Elvis and he said Bellfield done it",
"A leprachaun spoke to me in the pub and said that a rogue unicorn done it"0 -
Well, Ford have suspended advertising in the paper with other big names considering their options. Maybe the NoTW name is about to disappear.0
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I've only read the first page, but there seems to be a broad agreement about the amoral and illegal nature of the phone tapping. If you feel as strongly about it as I do, 38 Degrees have a petition going ...
I'll be signing.The petition text:
Dear David Cameron and Jeremy Hunt,
We're standing up for higher media standards, and respect for the rule of law.
We demand a stop to the BSkyB takeover, and a full public inquiry into the Murdoch empire's phone hacking activities.
We can't trust Murdoch's “promises” about respecting UK democracy and media plurality if he takes over BSkyB, while his newspapers stand accused of immoral and criminal activities.
These allegations prove we need a full inquiry into phone hacking and whether Murdoch is a fit and proper media owner - not another Murdoch media power grab.
FYI, 38 Degrees are the people who got the forests sell off stopped.A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject - Churchill0 -
Couldnt agree more with most of the posts, boycott all of the Murdoch enterprises which
incase no one noticed includes sky tv, which also means team sky who have unlimited funds available and possibly an unhealthy incestuous relationship with British Cycling.0 -
What I find most surprising is that nobody is questioning how these phones are hacked.
As I understand it the "hacking" consists of phoning an engaged / switched off phone so that it goes to voicemail, then entering a PIN to get access to the voicemail options.
If the phone isn't already engaged you need to make a crank call first, and then call it again from a second phone.
Of course you have to guess the PIN, but this is usually the default, or the user may have set it to something guessable, probably because the user wasn't aware that this remote access of voicemail was even possible. Either way, the phone companies should pick up some of the blame for creating such an insecure system.0 -
Ahh, Rick, yet again comes in with excellent analysis of a given story and then stuffs it by coming in from the far left.
The stories of children murdered, phones hacked for more info to sell papers and the depths some people have descended to is not comparable to finding out what Kerry Katona's latest self induced drama is.
If you court the press, you will get bitten because they are scum and use the law and free speech to blatantly behave in any way they see fit.
The fact that the NOTW is being investigated by the woman who was the Editor at the time is a farce.
The Met Police also seem to be implicated in this, I bet there are a few high ranking police and politicians cacking themselves over this, it will run and run.
The distinction to my earlier point is celebs, although not asking to be hacked, use the press as a boost to their earnings and exposure. The abduction and murder of little girls court no such intrusion from these wretches.0 -
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dmclite wrote:Ahh, Rick, yet again comes in with excellent analysis of a given story and then stuffs it by coming in from the far left.
The stories of children murdered, phones hacked for more info to sell papers and the depths some people have descended to is not comparable to finding out what Kerry Katona's latest self induced drama is.
If you court the press, you will get bitten because they are scum and use the law and free speech to blatantly behave in any way they see fit.
The fact that the NOTW is being investigated by the woman who was the Editor at the time is a farce.
The Met Police also seem to be implicated in this, I bet there are a few high ranking police and politicians cacking themselves over this, it will run and run.
The distinction to my earlier point is celebs, although not asking to be hacked, use the press as a boost to their earnings and exposure. The abduction and murder of little girls court no such intrusion from these wretches.
I don't think I'm coming from the left. Don't think my conclusions are particularly left. It's more just me...
I just mean that if you use the papers for anything, be it trivial or not, the paper will approach it in the same way, whether it's trivial or not. You let it slide for some stories, it'll happen with all stories.
You can't expect different behaviour for different stories.
You do wonder why the sun is the #1 read paper though... Maybe this makes it a little clearer why.0 -
What I am finding illuminating is the fact that this, at least so far, is just based around the Sun and the NotW, i.e. Murdoch owned newspapers.
If this is a sign of the media generally falling down a slippery slope to feed the public you would expect other media organisations to be involved. So far that isn’t the case...Mañana0 -
pdw wrote:What I find most surprising is that nobody is questioning how these phones are hacked.
As I understand it the "hacking" consists of phoning an engaged / switched off phone so that it goes to voicemail, then entering a PIN to get access to the voicemail options.
If the phone isn't already engaged you need to make a crank call first, and then call it again from a second phone.
Of course you have to guess the PIN, but this is usually the default, or the user may have set it to something guessable, probably because the user wasn't aware that this remote access of voicemail was even possible. Either way, the phone companies should pick up some of the blame for creating such an insecure system.
If you ring your voicemail number from a landline it asks for your phone number and pin code, if you ring from your mobile phone, the voicemail knows who you are so it puts you straight through to your voicemial without asking who you are or your pin.
The hack actually works by "spoofing" the caller ID of the hackers phone. If you have your own phone system (Asterisk is a free PC based one available on the net) and a SIP supplier that doesn't make you prove you own the number before you use it, you can set the outgoing caller ID as someone else mobile phone from your extension (companies do this legitamately all the time so that peoples direct dial or 0845 number is shown on caller ID). If you then ring (for instance) Orange voicemail on 07973100150 and spoof an Orange mobile phone numberm you get straight through to the messages, no pin required.
Very devious and deliberate and dispicable.
*No I don't work for the News Of The World*0 -
mossychops wrote:pdw wrote:What I find most surprising is that nobody is questioning how these phones are hacked.
As I understand it the "hacking" consists of phoning an engaged / switched off phone so that it goes to voicemail, then entering a PIN to get access to the voicemail options.
If the phone isn't already engaged you need to make a crank call first, and then call it again from a second phone.
Of course you have to guess the PIN, but this is usually the default, or the user may have set it to something guessable, probably because the user wasn't aware that this remote access of voicemail was even possible. Either way, the phone companies should pick up some of the blame for creating such an insecure system.
If you ring your voicemail number from a landline it asks for your phone number and pin code, if you ring from your mobile phone, the voicemail knows who you are so it puts you straight through to your voicemial without asking who you are or your pin.
The hack actually works by "spoofing" the caller ID of the hackers phone. If you have your own phone system (Asterisk is a free PC based one available on the net) and a SIP supplier that doesn't make you prove you own the number before you use it, you can set the outgoing caller ID as someone else mobile phone from your extension (companies do this legitamately all the time so that peoples direct dial or 0845 number is shown on caller ID). If you then ring (for instance) Orange voicemail on 07973100150 and spoof an Orange mobile phone numberm you get straight through to the messages, no pin required.
Very devious and deliberate and dispicable.
*No I don't work for the News Of The World*
Really this easy ....................... :shock:
So basically the phone companies should be strung up for failing to make phones sufficiently secure to prevent hacking from taking place, preferably in the mid day African sun, along with the other suspects the NOTW, News International, the useless Press Complaints Commission, the bent police and CPS and all gutter press hacks and seedy politicians. Who ever was the phone provider for Milly Dowler's phone must be crapping themselves at the moment for fear of bad publicity and loss of business.
I heard that Vauxhall, Co-Operative and Halifax Bank of Scotland as well as Ford have now withdrawn from advertising further in the NOTW. Hopefully more companies will do the same so the revenue that the NOTW raises through advertising collapses; also the morons who buy the rag will also see that the practices it has widely adopted are beyond the pale and decide not to buy it any more. But I suspect all the tabloid rags have been up to this at some point or have employed those who do undertake such nefarious and criminal activity. Quite apart from the gutter press pursuing the rich and famous with a vengeance with long lenses in tow camped in people's gardens or outside their front doors or calling them non-stop.
It is my impression that intercepting, bugging or listening to any private phone calls is a criminal offence unless sanctioned by a court ie a judge. So whether some one is rich and famous or poor and out of the public eye should make no difference what so ever. To suggest the rich and famous, celebs whether they are air heads or not, are fair game is plain nonsense. The people who have hacked into phones are plain criminals. The practice should be viewed as a serious offence and in the circumstanes the perpetrators and those that sanctioned it or knew about it or should have known about it, but did NOTHING, should all go to jail for a long time. I also heard that allegedly bent police officers were paid large cash sums by the NOTW which would explain why "investigations" allegedly went nowhere and allegedly details of investigations were revealed and allegedly information on inidviduals revealed. Shocking. I also heard that the PCC gave the NOTW a "clean bill of health" as Rebecca Brookes then Editor is alleged to have said to the PCC panel that they would not want to be the target of the NOTW's investigative "journalists"! A clear threat. She should be sacked. With any luck the NOTW will be an ex-tabloid within 12 months and the venal people who work there should either be awaiting trial or have been convicted or be on the dole.Life is like a roll of toilet paper; long and useful, but always ends at the wrong moment. Anon.
Think how stupid the average person is.......
half of them are even more stupid than you first thought.0 -
Advertising revenue being removed will hit the paper harder than any boycott (although seeing their readership fall would be another plus).0
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Rick Chasey wrote:dmclite wrote:Ahh, Rick, yet again comes in with excellent analysis of a given story and then stuffs it by coming in from the far left.
The stories of children murdered, phones hacked for more info to sell papers and the depths some people have descended to is not comparable to finding out what Kerry Katona's latest self induced drama is.
If you court the press, you will get bitten because they are scum and use the law and free speech to blatantly behave in any way they see fit.
The fact that the NOTW is being investigated by the woman who was the Editor at the time is a farce.
The Met Police also seem to be implicated in this, I bet there are a few high ranking police and politicians cacking themselves over this, it will run and run.
The distinction to my earlier point is celebs, although not asking to be hacked, use the press as a boost to their earnings and exposure. The abduction and murder of little girls court no such intrusion from these wretches.
I don't think I'm coming from the left. Don't think my conclusions are particularly left. It's more just me...
I just mean that if you use the papers for anything, be it trivial or not, the paper will approach it in the same way, whether it's trivial or not. You let it slide for some stories, it'll happen with all stories.
You can't expect different behaviour for different stories.
You do wonder why the sun is the #1 read paper though... Maybe this makes it a little clearer why.
I know, I despair.0 -
I agree totally with Dilemma :shock:0
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Double post0
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Le Commentateur wrote:Murdoch has now closed down the paper. Last edition on Sunday.
Ah beat me to it.
"Shut it down! Shut it down now!"0 -
Well despite me suggesting it two days ago I still think...er..wow, that's quite an event really, for a paper to become completely untenable like that. Not saying I'm upset about it mind you.
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That all assumes that everyone involved won't resurface with a new, improved "News of the Universe" in a fortnights time. When all this has blown over and Rupert can get his advertisers back, it will be business as usual.'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0
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Rick Chasey wrote:Le Commentateur wrote:Murdoch has now closed down the paper. Last edition on Sunday.
Ah beat me to it.
"Shut it down! Shut it down now!"
The power of your job has gone to your head."There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world, t'would be a pity to damage yours."0
