Cleaning and lubrication

crescent

I use one of those chain cyclone cleaners and find it excellent. There is a knack to using it in such a way that it doesn't derail your chain everytime. I fill it with white spirit and give it a good 2-3 mins gentle rotation. I then run it through a nice clean rag before applying a 'dry' lubricant. Chain is sparkling every time. I probably do this about once a month. About every three months or so I will pretty much strip the bike to bits and clean, degrease and lube everything as appropriate. Other times I will just dry off and wipe with a rag here and there as necessary. It is definitely worth investing in a couple of specialst tools if you want to maintain your own bike. Cassette and BB removal tools, crank pullers, chain whip etc. I like to think of it as not OCD but just common sense and protecting my investment. There is no feeling like cycing along with just a bit of tyre roar and the gentle tick-tick of a well oiled and adjusted drivetrain knowing that you did it all yourself. It's all part of the enjoyment for me.

Cheers

jgsi

I do miss Bhima saying that a squirt of wd40 in water bottle helps with monstering the hill climbs.... he didnt but .. but he would have.... oh happy days

he is probably a rich man with his spoke import business

rolf_f

BruceG wrote:

You are clearly very very very stupid so I will make it clear for you, all you needed to do was point out to the OP that whilst it was a good cleaning agent it was not a good idea to rely on it as a Lube, therefore once used for cleaning then a propietry brand of Lube afterwards would be a good idea, all your patronising " There Endeth the lesson" crap was totally unnecessary.

You mean like below?

MattC59 wrote:

As for lubing, get a decent biek specific lube. Everyone on here will have a favorite and will berate any and all suggestions of anything other than that which they use. Just find one which you like and use it.

However, DON'T use WD40 as a chain lube. It will displace water well, but will also thin and strip out any existing lube and (in the words of WD40 customer service) does not have the shear force capacity to act as an efficient chain lube.

MattC59

BruceG wrote:

MattC59 wrote:

TuckerUK wrote:

Oh look, a thread where verifiable facts (company says WD40 no good for chains) get buried under lots of willy waving to prevent anyone looking dumb. On Bike Radar Forums? Who'd have thought?

WD40 is not good for anything other than water dismantlement really (Water Displacement 40), however, GT85 is recommended for use on chains (perhaps not as the main lube, but certainly OK to prevent rusting on the other surfaces?).

I though perhaps I'd typed this in a white font, as BG appeared not to have noticed. Thanks for pointing it out again

You are clearly very very very stupid so I will make it clear for you, all you needed to do was point out to the OP that whilst it was a good cleaning agent it was not a good idea to rely on it as a Lube, therefore once used for cleaning then a propietry brand of Lube afterwards would be a good idea, all your patronising " There Endeth the lesson" crap was totally unnecessary.
Incidentally the "scare mongering" about using WD40 on chains, was borne in some part the the motorcycle fraternity, where it isnt a good idea to use it to clean chainswith it either, as motorcycle chains use rubber o rings to seal in the grease packed rollers, and WD40 can have an effect on the O rings and render them useles thus reducing the chain life. This isnt something that will occur on a bicycle chain.

So to the OP ,use it for cleaning if you wish it will do a good job, however its lubricating qualities are limited due to reduced shear strength , however with the torque loadings that an average cyclist will impart this will only give a marginal reduction in chain life if re applied regularly

You appear to be an overly sensitive individual if you thought the 'Here endeth the lesson' comment was totally unnecessary. Why was it unnecessary ? Read it in context and don't take things so seriously :roll: Or join in with the forum more often and you'll realise that comments like that aren't intended in any untoward fashion.
Once again though, as if to confirm what I previously mentioned, you appear to have missed the point that the manufacturer stated that WD40 isn't a suitable lubricant for cycle chains. It's not scaremongering.
Oh, and 'well done' on rewording my post, although you didn't quite get it right. Are you actually going to add anything of worth to this thread, or just have a go at me and re-word information I've imparted ?
That's it, I give up, you win. Your over sensitivity and inability to read the posts has dumbfounded me. Sometimes when dealing with stupidity it's better to give in.

My face is also beginning to ache from laughing at your responses.

MattC59

Paul057 wrote:

I like the baby wipe idea for the chain (especially as i've got boxes full of them for the kids). Not too keen on the "stick the bike in the garage until next time you use it" idea though. I'm a bit OCD and the thought of it just sitting there all dirty chills me.

So in summary;
Only use WD40 to clean - not to lubricate
Use soap and water for the frame
Use specific chain lubricant for the cassette and chain

...and where do i use dry lube?

Also, what are some good brands?

Hi Paul,
Sorry the thread got hijacked, and I hope you didn't take offence to "Here endeth the lesson", as BG did.
The easiest thing is to treat WD40 as a penetrating oil, for losening seized bolts, or as a water displacer, and nothing more (it's good for protecting garden spades after you've cleaned them though !).
soap and water is fine for cleaning, the important thing is to rinse the soap away well.
Yep, use a chain specific lube.

Dry lube is generally a term for the more waxy lubes used in the summer. I use Finish Line Dry, which is very thin as you apply it, but then, as the carrier evaporates, it 'drys' to a waxy consistence. This prevents dirt sticking to it in the same way that it would to a wet lube such as Finish Line Cross Country. However, dry lubes don't tend to last very long in wet weather. Here, a wet lubs, such as the one previously mentioned, which is stickier, will adhere to your chain longer.

The trick is to lube your chain properly and wipe away any excess. Some of the very expensive chain lubes have very specific instructions and work exceptionally well if you follow them, but are useless if you don't.

Again, as mentioned in my first post, everyone has their favorite, some swear by wet lube year round. Try a few and take your pick (just stay away from WD40 ) I've tried loads over the years, and am happy with the Finish Line range.

MattC59

@BruceG

Something's just come to mind, which could explain everything...... are you Speed_King ?

Paul057

MattC59 wrote:

Paul057 wrote:

I like the baby wipe idea for the chain (especially as i've got boxes full of them for the kids). Not too keen on the "stick the bike in the garage until next time you use it" idea though. I'm a bit OCD and the thought of it just sitting there all dirty chills me.

So in summary;
Only use WD40 to clean - not to lubricate
Use soap and water for the frame
Use specific chain lubricant for the cassette and chain

...and where do i use dry lube?

Also, what are some good brands?

Hi Paul,
Sorry the thread got hijacked, and I hope you didn't take offence to "Here endeth the lesson", as BG did.
The easiest thing is to treat WD40 as a penetrating oil, for losening seized bolts, or as a water displacer, and nothing more (it's good for protecting garden spades after you've cleaned them though !).
soap and water is fine for cleaning, the important thing is to rinse the soap away well.
Yep, use a chain specific lube.

Dry lube is generally a term for the more waxy lubes used in the summer. I use Finish Line Dry, which is very thin as you apply it, but then, as the carrier evaporates, it 'drys' to a waxy consistence. This prevents dirt sticking to it in the same way that it would to a wet lube such as Finish Line Cross Country. However, dry lubes don't tend to last very long in wet weather. Here, a wet lubs, such as the one previously mentioned, which is stickier, will adhere to your chain longer.

The trick is to lube your chain properly and wipe away any excess. Some of the very expensive chain lubes have very specific instructions and work exceptionally well if you follow them, but are useless if you don't.

Again, as mentioned in my first post, everyone has their favorite, some swear by wet lube year round. Try a few and take your pick (just stay away from WD40 ) I've tried loads over the years, and am happy with the Finish Line range.

Hi Matt,
I can assure you that i took no offence at all to your "Lesson" quote, and i'd like to say thanks to everyone who's posted some really helpful advice and comments. You all clearly know your stuff.
As i'm new to the forum i thought i'd stay out of the disagreement, but come on guys - where is the love???

Kolraz

Sorry to go slightly off subject but:

Is it completely normal for the chain/cassette to be completely black when cleaning it? People talk on here as if cleaning the cassette and chain is an easy job but i get black oil everywhere when I go anywhere near it. Never tried baby wipes but I imagine it resulting in a terrible mess.
Are there any chain lubricants I could use that don't result in this black gunky mess? Whenever i see pictures of pros bikes their chains and cassettes are always sparkling shiny

Thanks

jgsi

Kolraz wrote:

Sorry to go slightly off subject but:

Is it completely normal for the chain/cassette to be completely black when cleaning it? People talk on here as if cleaning the cassette and chain is an easy job but i get black oil everywhere when I go anywhere near it. Never tried baby wipes but I imagine it resulting in a terrible mess.
Are there any chain lubricants I could use that don't result in this black gunky mess? Whenever i see pictures of pros bikes their chains and cassettes are always sparkling shiny

Thanks

You need to clean more than once a decade.
If you see shiny cassette and chain it is because they get cleaned as well as ridden b4 some smartass jumps in.

Kolraz

JGSI wrote:

Kolraz wrote:

Sorry to go slightly off subject but:

Is it completely normal for the chain/cassette to be completely black when cleaning it? People talk on here as if cleaning the cassette and chain is an easy job but i get black oil everywhere when I go anywhere near it. Never tried baby wipes but I imagine it resulting in a terrible mess.
Are there any chain lubricants I could use that don't result in this black gunky mess? Whenever i see pictures of pros bikes their chains and cassettes are always sparkling shiny

Thanks

You need to clean more than once a decade.
If you see shiny cassette and chain it is because they get cleaned as well as ridden b4 some smartass jumps in.

Thanks for the outstanding help.

MattC59

Paul057 wrote:

Hi Matt,
I can assure you that i took no offence at all to your "Lesson" quote, and i'd like to say thanks to everyone who's posted some really helpful advice and comments. You all clearly know your stuff.
As i'm new to the forum i thought i'd stay out of the disagreement, but come on guys - where is the love???

Cool
Don't worry, there's plenty of love here, and plenty for everyone in 'Cake Stop'. I can only assume that BG has got sand in his ar*e or something, as I can see no other reason to get so worked up about a harmless comment which wasn't directed at him.

There's the occasional Troll here, but generally everyone's pretty helpful.
If you want a laugh, and some explaination to my 'Speed_King' comment, search for the thread "Be Warned" by Speed_King.............. it's somewhat legendary, and will also explain the "Blame Wiggle" comments you may stumble across.

Cheers........... M

jgsi

Kolraz wrote:

JGSI wrote:

Kolraz wrote:

Sorry to go slightly off subject but:

Is it completely normal for the chain/cassette to be completely black when cleaning it? People talk on here as if cleaning the cassette and chain is an easy job but i get black oil everywhere when I go anywhere near it. Never tried baby wipes but I imagine it resulting in a terrible mess.
Are there any chain lubricants I could use that don't result in this black gunky mess? Whenever i see pictures of pros bikes their chains and cassettes are always sparkling shiny

Thanks

You need to clean more than once a decade.
If you see shiny cassette and chain it is because they get cleaned as well as ridden b4 some smartass jumps in.

Thanks for the outstanding help.

I realy wasnt trying to be condescending and apologies if it has come across so, but what were you expecting...? The only way you are going not to get dirty hands and fingernails, is by paying someone else to do the job.

Kolraz

Okay then. I don't know much about cleaning/maintenance and have only had my bike for a few months. Is the lubricant used black to begin with or does it turn black after lots of usage? If its simply through lots of usage its clear I'm not cleaning the chain thoroughly enough, however I had the bike fully serviced at Evans which includes cleaning, and the chain seemed black almost immediately on the next ride.
Sorry if this question seems fairly fundamentail, but I have no experience in cleaning and maintaining bikes.

Thanks

MattC59

Kolraz wrote:

Sorry to go slightly off subject but:

Is it completely normal for the chain/cassette to be completely black when cleaning it? People talk on here as if cleaning the cassette and chain is an easy job but i get black oil everywhere when I go anywhere near it. Never tried baby wipes but I imagine it resulting in a terrible mess.
Are there any chain lubricants I could use that don't result in this black gunky mess? Whenever i see pictures of pros bikes their chains and cassettes are always sparkling shiny

Thanks

Actually, you're pretty much back on subject
I shall try to help, with out being patronising or belittling. I don't intend ot be, but it appears that there are some on here who are easily offended and will pipe up only when this happens

Your chain / cassette is completely black because the lube used attracts dirt and will eventually just turn into the black paste you're familiar with. If you use too much lube, it will speed up this process. It might be worth you buying one of the afore mentioned chain cleaners, they're not expensive and do a great job when your chain is really filthy. If your cassette is in a mess too, it'll be worth taking it of the wheel and cleaing it seperately. Despite what another in this thread implied, degreaser is the best for this, you'll be able to use the same stuff that you use in the chain cheaining tool. Soap and water will do the job, but as you know, you'll get covered in black gunk.

Regarding the baby wipes tip. They're fanastic for keeping your chain clean once it's clean. ie preventative cleaning. After every couple of rides, as the chain starts to pick up a bit of grime, just wipe it down with a baby wipe and relube. That way, you'll prevent the chain and cassette becoming the filthy black mess that you're familiar with. Just remember to wipe off any excess lube after you've applied it.

MattC59

JGSI wrote:

I realy wasnt trying to be condescending and apologies if it has come across so, but what were you expecting...? The only way you are going not to get dirty hands and fingernails, is by paying someone else to do the job.

You're right to apologise, you never know who might be offended, I've certainly learned my lesson

lifeform

I'm rather surprised by some of the stuff you guys are happy to plaster all over the paint work of your bestest toys.

As far as I can work out, bike frames are painted in much the same way, with much the same stuff, as your common or garden car.

On that basis I use car cleaning stuff on mine - not the Halfords junk, but proper car detailing waxes, cleansers, etc. The quality of the stuff is way beyond some of the products mentioned so far. Bonus is you can use it on other stuff too, like your car.

My Trek is waxed with Zymol Carnuba wax (I didn't buy it especially, I already use it on the cars)

If it's mucky, as quick rinse with water is enough to clean it, dry, and detail spray and buff. If it's just dusty then I just use the detail spray.

These guys do some excellent stuff;

www.polishedbliss.co.uk

R222 cleaner will remove any grease you point it at - but is largely organic so won't remove your paint/skin/anyone in a 50 yard radius
Jeff's Werkstatt range is very good value for money - either Carnuba or Acrylic prime.

jgsi

MattC59 wrote:

JGSI wrote:

I realy wasnt trying to be condescending and apologies if it has come across so, but what were you expecting...? The only way you are going not to get dirty hands and fingernails, is by paying someone else to do the job.

You're right to apologise, you never know who might be offended, I've certainly learned my lesson

I know, an internet apology, rarer than ..........

Paul057

After reading about them on here, i'm just about to order a "chain cleaning thingy" and some lube from wiggle. After reading the reviews on there i can't believr i've lived without one for so long.

I was warned that this cycling lark would get expensive, why didn't i listen? It's just that i NEED so much stuff though you see?

MattC59

Paul057 wrote:

After reading about them on here, i'm just about to order a "chain cleaning thingy" and some lube from wiggle. After reading the reviews on there i can't believr i've lived without one for so long.

I was warned that this cycling lark would get expensive, why didn't i listen? It's just that i NEED so much stuff though you see?

You wait 'till you've got everything that you need, they you'll start buying all the stuff that you don't need
(and coming up with absurd ways of justifying it to your wife )

mokl

Not wishing to send this thread off on another ridiculous tangent, but this is a genuine question and not a troll, I promise. I have heard that WD40 and carbon fibre are not the best bed-fellows. Obviously your frame is finished in layers of lacquer etc, but I have heard that WD40 can encourage carbon fibre to de-laminate if used carelessly. Does anyone care to confirm or deny this. Please feel free to mock my stupidity!

mokl

Great chain cleaning tip (if that helps redeem me for my above post!). Get one of those green spongey back washing up scoureres, soak it in Fenwick's or similar and give the chain a good going over. Rinse with water for startling results! nb, do not forget to thoroughly dry and regrease.

ollyridesfirst

Kolraz wrote:

Sorry to go slightly off subject but:

Is it completely normal for the chain/cassette to be completely black when cleaning it? People talk on here as if cleaning the cassette and chain is an easy job but i get black oil everywhere when I go anywhere near it. Never tried baby wipes but I imagine it resulting in a terrible mess.
Are there any chain lubricants I could use that don't result in this black gunky mess? Whenever i see pictures of pros bikes their chains and cassettes are always sparkling shiny

Thanks

Try some TF2 spray.....it will get all that gunk and with the straw that comes with the bottle you can concentrate the pressure to help. It will then just drip off. If it's really that bad, i would consider taking the cassette off and giving each cog a really good clean!

Paul057

MattC59 wrote:

Paul057 wrote:

After reading about them on here, i'm just about to order a "chain cleaning thingy" and some lube from wiggle. After reading the reviews on there i can't believr i've lived without one for so long.

I was warned that this cycling lark would get expensive, why didn't i listen? It's just that i NEED so much stuff though you see?

You wait 'till you've got everything that you need, they you'll start buying all the stuff that you don't need
(and coming up with absurd ways of justifying it to your wife )

Haha. I've had to justify everything already - i think i'm just going to take the same approach that she does with her shoes "This cycling jersey??? No it's not new, you've just not seen it before".

MattC59

mokl wrote:

Not wishing to send this thread off on another ridiculous tangent, but this is a genuine question and not a troll, I promise. I have heard that WD40 and carbon fibre are not the best bed-fellows. Obviously your frame is finished in layers of lacquer etc, but I have heard that WD40 can encourage carbon fibre to de-laminate if used carelessly. Does anyone care to confirm or deny this. Please feel free to mock my stupidity!

Not a daft question, and it doesn't come across as trolling at all
I've never heard of that being a problem, but it does sort of make sense. I suppose it would be possible for the solvents in WD40 to break down the resins / lacquer after prolonged exposure, but I wouldn't have a clue as to how long and how much WD40 would be needed. email your frame manufacturer, they may be able to help ?

geebee2

Kolraz wrote:

Sorry to go slightly off subject but:

Is it completely normal for the chain/cassette to be completely black when cleaning it? People talk on here as if cleaning the cassette and chain is an easy job but i get black oil everywhere when I go anywhere near it. Never tried baby wipes but I imagine it resulting in a terrible mess.
Are there any chain lubricants I could use that don't result in this black gunky mess? Whenever i see pictures of pros bikes their chains and cassettes are always sparkling shiny

Thanks

The objective is to have lubrication where it is needed (on the chain rollers and the internal surfaces ) but not where it is not needed ( on the external side surfaces ).

This means removing excess lubrication, which will only attract dirt.

I don't think there are absolute answers. I have moved to doing a "complete" clean ( i.e. soaking the whole chain in solvent ) quite infrequently - maybe once a month, but doing a quick partial clean with a rag dipped in some solvent ( I just use paraffin ) after most rides.

Against the cost of a new chain, there is also the cost of lubricants, which can mount up if you deep clean too often.

Kolraz

Thanks for the detailed help everyone, I think maybe I've had too much excess lubricant which is why the chain is picking dirt up so quickly. I'll try giving it a proper clean later and re lubricating, and I'll make sure I get all the excess off this time! Will the muc-off degreaser spray be enough for a full chain clean or do I need some of the chain cleaner? I'm not sure on the difference.

And I should of described my problem in more detail before, apologies

MattC59

Kolraz wrote:

Thanks for the detailed help everyone, I think maybe I've had too much excess lubricant which is why the chain is picking dirt up so quickly. I'll try giving it a proper clean later and re lubricating, and I'll make sure I get all the excess off this time! Will the muc-off degreaser spray be enough for a full chain clean or do I need some of the chain cleaner? I'm not sure on the difference.

And I should have described my problem in more detail before, apologies

the Muc Off Degreaser spray will be ideal for cleaning the cassette, as it will ge into all the nooks and crannies. Personally, I'd take it off hte wheel first though, which will allow you to thoroughly clean it without getting the gunky run off everywhere, and without any risk of the degreaser getting into the freehub body or any bearings. If you can't don't worry too much, just be careful as you apply it.

You could clean the chain with the spray degreaser, but it won't be the most efficient use of it, as most will miss the chain. If you can, get one of the chain cleaner thingys mentioned earlier, I've got his one; http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=5783 and it's pretty good, but there are others out there. Don't worry if you can't, , just try Mokl's tip below, but spray some of the Muc Off degreaser onto the sponge.

mokl wrote:

Great chain cleaning tip (if that helps redeem me for my above post!). Get one of those green spongey back washing up scoureres, soak it in Fenwick's or similar and give the chain a good going over. Rinse with water for startling results! nb, do not forget to thoroughly dry and regrease.

Phil_D

Being a newcomer to the art of cleaning bikes, and having just taken mine apart for the first time for a jolly good clean, I thought I would share what I learnt during the process:

Don't buy degreaser from a bike shop. It's a rip off. Fenwicks is something like £45 for 5L and the bottle doesn't even say to dilute it.

I got some Swarfega degreaser from Screwfix. £7 for 5L and you dilute it 50 to 1, so in effect it's 250 litres for less than a tenner. Works a treat as well.

Pipe cleaners are good for between the sprockets on your rear cassette if they can't be separated.

When you wash your hands at the end of the session, use washing up liquid mixed with table salt. Might not be great for the skin but it cleans really effectively.

edb999

MattC59 wrote:

Oh yeah.......... top tip for cleaning your chain.
Baby wipes !!
Yes, really !

Funny, I use baby wipes to clean all my bike except the chain! (my bike is kept in the house- allows me to clean it without the faff of taking out the back to splash water around)
For the chain/cassete/other oilly bits I use wd40 sprayed on a rag. Run the chain through it and then feed it between the gears and 'saw' back and forth, the cassete turns on the freewheel.