Cwmcarn, i don't get it... what's the appeal ?

The Northern Monkey

deadkenny wrote:

The thing I understand about Cwm's DH course is it's designed to be anything from hard core DH to rollable by the more beginner DHiller or regular trail rider. You get out of it what you put into it.

A bit different from a dedicated DH course where you find everyone wears the PJs and armour with full face (though get the uplift at Cwm and most will be kitted out like this). The DH at Cwm is enough to throw off those used to trail centres like Afan if they're not careful, and it's more advisable to beef up protection, if at least just a full face, but you can get away with standard trail protection and roll most of it.

It's not supposed to be a smooth flowing XC though. This is DH stuff. If you're looking for awesome XC climbs & descents, Cwm is not your place.

deadkenny
Are you confusing the DH track with the red route?
Quite a misleading post there.


The red route isn't "DH stuff".
IMO, its a fairly normal red route tbh....

Anonymous

I meant the DH, given I was talking about the DH course.

Sorry, could have been clearer though, yeah the red XC is another matter, but going to Cwm just for that XC is probably not worth it. At least not a long distance trip. It's nice though.

The Northern Monkey

I dunno.. depends on the bike!

On my Meta, the DH was pretty good. reached the limit of the bike, but it was ridable. The red down was fun but easy.

On my Boardman, the DH was crap. Reached the limit of the bike and fell off into a load of pricklies
The red is more fun on the Boardman as less travel and no rear travel makes you think a bit more! Great fun though!

But like I said, different bikes, different...erm.... gravy?

1340jas

I have ridden at Cwmcarn on average once a week for the past 10 years.
I have also ridden at lots of other trail centres but mostly those in South and West Wales. CC I think has a great climb which tests both your skill, strength and stamina. I find the rest of the trail stands up well when compared to other trail centres. In parts it could be seen as too rocky, however I think this adds to it's character and they are not many.
The trail remains rideable all year hich is a very positive point in its favour.
Why don't you have another couple of goes at it. I have taken quite a few mates on their first outings at CC. Some have loved it, some have hated the first ride. However all of them now ride it regularly.
On a positive note, this sunday I had one of my best rides there in the past 10 years.
Then on the final decent was completly blown away by the speed of a guy from Chepstow, up until then I had the mis-held belief I was quite fast on the slopes.
Try it again you'll love it.

J@mesC

I'm with weeksy on this one - I just didn't get the red xc loop at cwmcarn. I've ridden it twice now and don't see the appeal. The climb is a grueller, but I actually liked it as it's quite technical in places and you certainly gain height quickly! But after all that effort I found the down very disappointing. IMHO it's neither flowy nor technical. Yeah, it's a bit rough and rocky but that doesnt mean it's techie. It's over too quickly because it throws away height too quickly. If only it was all as fun as the very short section in welshkev's clip!!

adzsubtract

I have ridden The Wall, White's level, Penhydd, Coed Y Brenin, Nant yr Arian and Cannock Chase, but have found all of them a lot easier than Cwmcarn. Admittedly they all have their technical bits , but I like the way Cwmcarn is relentless. It makes you ride it and am looking forward to the day when I "clean" the ascent. To say that Cwmcarn doesn't flow I don't really understand, Cwmcarn starts at the car park and ends there also. The only "grind" is the final bit of fire track to the top, whereas Afan/Glyncorrwg have an amount of riding to get to the trails and The Wall and Penhydd is broken up by fire tracks. I can understand if you don't like Cwmcarn, but I would definately give it another go, the freeride at the top is great, although it has laid my cycling plans to rest for the time being, but that's a diferrent essay.

clamps81

From a newbie on a hardtail perspective here - Cwm is brutal. It makes you realise just how raw and useless and unfit you are. I rode the Wall at Afan a few weeks after my first go at Cwmcarn and the flowy nature and long downhills made me feel like I actually knew what I was doing, but every time I go back to Cwmcarn thinking I know what I'm doing or that my fitness is improving I am proved heartily wrong. It's hard going and tricky and the better you get the more it rewards you. Were I to vid myself in comparison with some of the vids here then you'd see wheezing and foot planting and swearing, but get get good enough and you fly over it all.

All that said, the downhillls on the red are what hooked me on MTbing, so it's not all bad.

Anonymous

Just to further add, I think what there is "to get" about Cwmcarn is the actual Downhill course.

If all you saw was the red, then yes I can see why you wouldn't get it. That's what I was trying to get across.

Book a downhill day with the uplift, ride something DH capable and get a full face, then you'll see what Cwmcarn is all about . The red is a nice bonus (though the climb sucks).

weeksy59

deadkenny wrote:

Just to further add, I think what there is "to get" about Cwmcarn is the actual Downhill course.

If all you saw was the red, then yes I can see why you wouldn't get it. That's what I was trying to get across.

Book a downhill day with the uplift, ride something DH capable and get a full face, then you'll see what Cwmcarn is all about . The red is a nice bonus (though the climb sucks).

I'm honestly not a DH kind of rider, too old and too inexperienced/lacking in skills. Jumping and dropping is not my forte at all.

welshkev

J@mesC wrote:

I'm with weeksy on this one - I just didn't get the red xc loop at cwmcarn. I've ridden it twice now and don't see the appeal. The climb is a grueller, but I actually liked it as it's quite technical in places and you certainly gain height quickly! But after all that effort I found the down very disappointing. IMHO it's neither flowy nor technical. Yeah, it's a bit rough and rocky but that doesnt mean it's techie. It's over too quickly because it throws away height too quickly. If only it was all as fun as the very short section in welshkev's clip!!

The clip was short but that was the only one with me in it :-) check out the other vids, from the freeride section down it's about 15/20 mins of all downhill, which is both fast and flowy, ok say the wall at afan for example has some longer sections but it's a longer trail. Cwmcarn is what 14km? It crams a lot into that short trail.

It's fine if people don't like CC anyway, it's quieter for me :-)

Thewaylander

Cor this thread is now funny, people saying the rec at cwm is hard, I can't wrap my head round that always just sleapt as i went round lol.

I can understand the climb shocking a few people at first but still nothing on that you just cant pedal over fairly easily unless your tiring.

but the important part is wales is about rocks n roots too me, and the trails where there aren't many like afan have been covered over, you can see it wearing through, and by the unbelievably sandy nature of the ground as the trail builders have used piles to build it over, (grinds the hell out of your gear)


but my one seriouos question is do people here find the last 2 Decents of Whites at afan flowy?

weeksy59

Thewaylander wrote:

but my one seriouos question is do people here find the last 2 Decents of Whites at afan flowy?

The last one isn't terribly flowing i agree. It's about on par with CC though

welshkev

weeksy59 wrote:

Thewaylander wrote:

but my one seriouos question is do people here find the last 2 Decents of Whites at afan flowy?

The last one isn't terribly flowing i agree. It's about on par with CC though

No no no, I can respect your opinion about no liking cwmcarn, but to compare it with whites, you're just wrong :-)

Thewaylander

See did them on sunday,while doing W" by the end because of the way it turns back in and the fact that if you don't pedal hard the entire way you stop very fast i found them highly frustrating and slow.

So what conistutes flowy?

Cwm gives speed and has really minimal hard pedaling in the downs with corners that don't require huge cuts in speed as they have sensible banking.

Whites, alot of pedaling as they don't have much angle, flat to off camber corners, some often cutting at about 100degrees so not fast corners with out bank or so on.

What constitutes flow? smooth unrocky trails or speed and smooth lines?


This isn't me haven't a go or anything but just trying to undertand as i just don't get Whites appeal, and your the first person who'm i've heard say Cwm isn't flowy

Anonymous

Thewaylander wrote:

What constitutes flow?

Simple. Pink Heiffer does, in Coed y Brenin. And the second black descent in Llandegla.

Thewaylander

damn it i know the name and ridden it a load of times, but can never remember section names, describe on which trail lol and will agree/disagree as i feel inappropriate

Anonymous

Pink Heiffer is on the MBR route at CYB. It's a singletrack section that goes across, then descends gradually back down towards the river. Once you're past the first quarter mile or so, you barely have to turn a pedal at all. You can just pump the rollers and dips and pick up speed. Throw in a pedal turn each time you tilt the bike to change direction along the snaking trail and you pick up speed with almost no effort. Then there's the great little rises that almost throw you off the floor, but not quite - meaning you sort of half-drift over them anticipating the next bend, before digging in on the far side and completing the turn.
It's awesome.

The Llandegla one is kind of similar, but feels less natural, and more man-made.

Thewaylander

Argh trying to think, i like the section before the river on Dragons back thats fun, MBR trying to think where you cross the river on MBR.. man i take to much crap my memory is screwed lol

Anonymous

Thewaylander wrote:

Argh trying to think, i like the section before the river on Dragons back thats fun, MBR trying to think where you cross the river on MBR.. man i take to much crap my memory is screwed lol

Same one. They both share that bit.

Thewaylander

I thought MBR turned off just after the rocky path out the trail center and left up the road, while Dragon + beast went straight across?

Might have changed since i did MBR since i just normally do Dragons these days, 30KM seems just the right legnth for a good fun ride.

Anonymous

Ah, No, that bit you were on about is "Dreamtime", and you're right, that is AWESOME!
I meant the part on the return leg, when you approach the river from the other side. Pink Heiffer is definitely on the MBR and Dragon's back (and partially on the Beast).

Anonymous

weeksy59 wrote:

I'm honestly not a DH kind of rider, too old and too inexperienced/lacking in skills. Jumping and dropping is not my forte at all.

The thing about the DH course though as I mentioned is it's designed to be mostly rideable by us non-DH folk just as much as by the hardcore guys.

I'm no DHiller, jumps I don't really do and drops only very small or roll if I can (not counting my recent near death experience stupid "WTF-was-I-thinking" drop!). Though there is one big drop that you have to avoid, and when I did it even the chicken run I had to walk down but apparently it's changed now. The rest of it is great fun.

The red was a bonus but the climb is savage. As I say, I wouldn't go there just for the red given it's 2+ hours down the M4 for me.

miss notax

adzsubtract wrote:

I have ridden The Wall, White's level, Penhydd, Coed Y Brenin, Nant yr Arian and Cannock Chase, but have found all of them a lot easier than Cwmcarn. Admittedly they all have their technical bits , but I like the way Cwmcarn is relentless. It makes you ride it and am looking forward to the day when I "clean" the ascent. To say that Cwmcarn doesn't flow I don't really understand, Cwmcarn starts at the car park and ends there also. The only "grind" is the final bit of fire track to the top, whereas Afan/Glyncorrwg have an amount of riding to get to the trails and The Wall and Penhydd is broken up by fire tracks. I can understand if you don't like Cwmcarn, but I would definitely give it another go, the freeride at the top is great, although it has laid my cycling plans to rest for the time being, but that's a diferrent essay.

Yep, I agree with this. I have ridden CC about once a month for the past few years and each time I clear more and more of the climb / find new lines etc. It's not easy, but if it was I would have got bored with it by now!

Incidentally I hated it when I first rode it, but the things I then hated it for (being relentless, too rocky etc) are now the reasons I love it

wordnumb

I like any place I can ride where there's minimal chance of dogwalkers and battle re-enactment enthusiasts getting in the way. Hope trail centres maintain their individual characters and continue to offer something different to riding off-piste without becoming too sanitised.

Deepunder

deadkenny wrote:

weeksy59 wrote:

I'm honestly not a DH kind of rider, too old and too inexperienced/lacking in skills. Jumping and dropping is not my forte at all.

The thing about the DH course though as I mentioned is it's designed to be mostly rideable by us non-DH folk just as much as by the hardcore guys.

I'm no DHiller, jumps I don't really do and drops only very small or roll if I can (not counting my recent near death experience stupid "WTF-was-I-thinking" drop!). Though there is one big drop that you have to avoid, and when I did it even the chicken run I had to walk down but apparently it's changed now. The rest of it is great fun.

The red was a bonus but the climb is savage. As I say, I wouldn't go there just for the red given it's 2+ hours down the M4 for me.

Ridden CC probably 5 times and always fancied the DH route, always put off by the girt off rigs and full facers you see up there.

I'm sure it can it be ridden on a 100mm stumpy fsr but is it recommended, I'm no way a big jumper/dropper, also would be concerned about being chased down or holding up the uplift guys?

Squarepants

Deepunder wrote:

Ridden CC probably 5 times and always fancied the DH route, always put off by the girt off rigs and full facers you see up there.

I'm sure it can it be ridden on a 100mm stumpy fsr but is it recommended, I'm no way a big jumper/dropper, also would be concerned about being chased down or holding up the uplift guys?

It can be ridden on the stumpy for sure fella, not ideal of course but you can role it all and take it relatively easy. Don't let the dedicated DH guys put you off. There's huge scope for getting to the top under your own steam/get an uplift and tackle the run on your own ie not being bared down on by steve peat. There's a good 20 mins in between runs for you to tootle down with no pressure. It certainly will be an experience for you

Thewaylander

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Ah, No, that bit you were on about is "Dreamtime", and you're right, that is AWESOME!
I meant the part on the return leg, when you approach the river from the other side. Pink Heiffer is definitely on the MBR and Dragon's back (and partially on the Beast).

ah Pink Heiffer think that starts after the little copper mine sign thingy yarp?

miss notax

Deepunder wrote:

Ridden CC probably 5 times and always fancied the DH route, always put off by the girt off rigs and full facers you see up there.

Ditto. I would love to try it but must admit I find it all a bit intimidating :oops:

I'm not slow, but would hate to hold people up by making a complete tw@t of myself (the latter I can cope with, but I just don't want to spoil other people's rides!) :?

Plus the fact I always feel the wrong gender, about 100 and wearing too much lycra compared to everyone else there

Thewaylander

Not the wrong gender, one of the faster DH riders i know is a lady...

The lycra thing maybe lol Lycra is bad.

Anonymous

Thewaylander wrote:

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Ah, No, that bit you were on about is "Dreamtime", and you're right, that is AWESOME!
I meant the part on the return leg, when you approach the river from the other side. Pink Heiffer is definitely on the MBR and Dragon's back (and partially on the Beast).

ah Pink Heiffer think that starts after the little copper mine sign thingy yarp?

Yep. That's the one.