Lanterne Rouge

CyclingBantam
CyclingBantam Posts: 1,299
edited August 2011 in Pro race
Just been reading a little about the Lanterne Rouge on Wikipedia and there were a couple of interesting stories I didn't know.

The first one about the Tour trying to ensure that riders didn't aim for it in 1980 be removing the last rider on GC on each stage between stage 14 and 20 during the 1980 tour.

Secondly, that very same year, Gerhard Schönbacher, who has 'won' the Lanterne Rouge the previous year still managed to 'win' it but was ultimately fired from the team by Patric Lefevre despite revieving a bonus from his sponsors.

Will anyone be aiming for the Lanterne Rouge this year? Should it get the 'prestige' it does? What are people's thoughts.

Ben
«13

Comments

  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,589
    It's a tricky one, no other sport celebrates the person who comes last but in cycling and a GT in particular a lot of suffering is required just to finish and the person who comes last will have often gone through all sorts of injury and health issues just to make it to Paris. I am slightly biased as I 'won' the lantern rouge in the only stage race I ever rode - my one and only prize in an open road race :D
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,738
    CyclingBantam wrote:

    Secondly, that very same year, Gerhard Schönbacher, who has 'won' the Lanterne Rouge the previous year still managed to 'win' it but was ultimately fired from the team by Patric Lefevre despite revieving a bonus from his sponsors.

    Ha, Lefevre's quality.
    _
  • rebs
    rebs Posts: 891
    I like the idea of the Lantern Rouge. But I do dislike the idea that people are targeting it. It should be for those people who are struggling to survive the tour for whatever reason (injury, illness etc)

    That is when it should be celebrated. I've read the stories of people aiming for it coming in 20 minutes behind the pack on flat days just to lose enough time. I don't like that side of it.
  • CyclingBantam
    CyclingBantam Posts: 1,299
    rebs wrote:
    I like the idea of the Lantern Rouge. But I do dislike the idea that people are targeting it. It should be for those people who are struggling to survive the tour for whatever reason (injury, illness etc)

    That is when it should be celebrated. I've read the stories of people aiming for it coming in 20 minutes behind the pack on flat days just to lose enough time. I don't like that side of it.

    I wonder how often that happens to be honest. Whilst I see people would want the publicity of getting it, and there have been a few examples of riders who have actually done that, it must be rare as you would always be the last for the massage, food etc and have far less time for rest all in all.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,158
    CyclingBantam wrote:
    I wonder how often that happens to be honest. Whilst I see people would want the publicity of getting it, and there have been a few examples of riders who have actually done that, it must be rare as you would always be the last for the massage, food etc and have far less time for rest all in all.

    Wim Vansevenant used to do it all the time. But he also used to spend hours on the front of the bunch, so he had an excuse.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • CyclingBantam
    CyclingBantam Posts: 1,299
    He did only 'win' it twice though. I had thought he did it a lot I must admit. I'm sure he was in a bit of a competition for it the other year. I can't remember who he 'beat'.

    If I was his DS I'm not sure I would be too happy he was wasting resting time to be honest.
  • jp1985
    jp1985 Posts: 434
    CyclingBantam wrote:
    He did only 'win' it twice though. I had thought he did it a lot I must admit. I'm sure he was in a bit of a competition for it the other year. I can't remember who he 'beat'.

    If I was his DS I'm not sure I would be too happy he was wasting resting time to be honest.

    It depends on the teams goals and how he fits into them, the publicity it brings probably makes it more than worthwhile for his DS to encourage it.

    You still remember he was LR after a few years... do you remember anyone who finished in the 100 places above him in those races?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,158
    CyclingBantam wrote:
    He did only 'win' it twice though. I had thought he did it a lot I must admit. I'm sure he was in a bit of a competition for it the other year. I can't remember who he 'beat'.

    If I was his DS I'm not sure I would be too happy he was wasting resting time to be honest.

    His job for the team was to ride on the front of the bunch for a couple of hours and then take it easy for the last 10-20k. Most of the time he wasn't doing it deliberately, he was just knackered. (see also Bert Grabsch)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Tusher
    Tusher Posts: 2,762
    It was Silence-Lotto's stated aim in the 2008 aim to 'bookend' the Tour with Wim and Cuddles.

    They could only achieve one half of this goal.

    Kenny van Hummel is perhaps the most deserving rider never to have won the Lanterne, despite his natural physical attributes.
  • Tom BB
    Tom BB Posts: 1,001
    Yeah Grabsch had a fair crack at it last year-his TT let him down though :lol:
  • Tusher
    Tusher Posts: 2,762
    Is Adriano Malori defending his title this year?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,158
    Tusher wrote:
    Is Adriano Malori defending his title this year?

    The indications are that he is back this year. I think Grabsch will have his measure this year though.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Tusher
    Tusher Posts: 2,762
    I agree- Malori was just a neo-pro last year (actually, he still will be this year) whereas Bert G has the tactical nous to beat him, especially if he's hoping for another team to pick him up next year.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,158
    Tusher wrote:
    I agree- Malori was just a neo-pro last year (actually, he still will be this year) whereas Bert G has the tactical nous to beat him, especially if he's hoping for another team to pick him up next year.

    I think Grabsch's claims are enhanced by the new Green Jersey rules, which may make him work even harder for the second Mr Tusher.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    CyclingBantam wrote:
    He did only 'win' it twice though. I had thought he did it a lot I must admit.
    Are you sure, I thought Wim Vansevenant was single record holder with 3 ‘victories’.

    He and Kenny van Hummels (who crashed when in the ‘lead’ in 2009) later ‘outed’ that they were both clean, despite their performances and in Vansevenant’s case, successes. Very re-assuring to know!

    It’s said that after the 1959 Tour, won by Bahamontes, the only rider to get as many invitations to post-Tour criteriums as Bahamontes, 28 invitations apparently, was the Lanterne Rouge, a Louis Bisillat, although the GC that year also included names like Anquetil, Anglade, Roger Riviere, Darrigade, Charly Gaul and Baldini - all top riders that decade.
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    Tusher wrote:
    Kenny van Hummel is perhaps the most deserving rider never to have won the Lanterne, despite his natural physical attributes.
    I don’t remember ever noticing Vansevenant, to decide how comfortably he managed to gain the Lanterne Rouge, but the year van Hummels was in the lead for a while, he really did look in difficulty on the climbs, so, like you say, he would have been a worthy winner.

    I heard when he flew back to the Netherlands that year, he was met by hundreds of fans who had learnt of his performance, and even without actually pulling it off, he received lots of invitations to the post-Tour criteriums.
  • Tusher
    Tusher Posts: 2,762
    Yes, Vanseverant won the Lanterne three years straight, and retired whilst on a high.

    I don't think that the post-Tour crits still pay as highly for the Lanterne Rouge, but I could be wrong.
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    RichN95 wrote:
    Tusher wrote:
    Is Adriano Malori defending his title this year?
    The indications are that he is back this year. I think Grabsch will have his measure this year though.
    Don’t forget Jimmy Casper, back in the Tour after a couple of years absence. He has already won the Lanterne Rouge twice, so one more ‘victory’ would bring him level with Vansevenant, and over a wider time span, so indicative of greater consistency.

    Although I actually think Casper would forgo that title if he could manage another sprint win (he won one in 2006).
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,158
    knedlicky wrote:
    It’s said that after the 1959 Tour, won by Bahamontes, the only rider to get as many invitations to post-Tour criteriums as Bahamontes, 28 invitations apparently, was the Lanterne Rouge, a Louis Bisillat, although the GC that year also included names like Anquetil, Anglade, Roger Riviere, Darrigade, Charly Gaul and Baldini - all top riders that decade.

    I think it became popularised after the 1956 Tour which Roger Walkowiak won having gained time on a break and hanging on (the 50th anniversary of this was marked by Oscar Pereiro). The French fans (who at the time may have called themselves 'French Fighters') declared that he was not a True Champion and just a wheelsucker. And there weren't many good photos of him. So they turned their attention to the man who came last and feted him in the crits.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • CyclingBantam
    CyclingBantam Posts: 1,299
    knedlicky wrote:
    CyclingBantam wrote:
    He did only 'win' it twice though. I had thought he did it a lot I must admit.
    Are you sure, I thought Wim Vansevenant was single record holder with 3 ‘victories’.

    He and Kenny van Hummels (who crashed when in the ‘lead’ in 2009) later ‘outed’ that they were both clean, despite their performances and in Vansevenant’s case, successes. Very re-assuring to know!

    It’s said that after the 1959 Tour, won by Bahamontes, the only rider to get as many invitations to post-Tour criteriums as Bahamontes, 28 invitations apparently, was the Lanterne Rouge, a Louis Bisillat, although the GC that year also included names like Anquetil, Anglade, Roger Riviere, Darrigade, Charly Gaul and Baldini - all top riders that decade.

    My apologies, I was talking rubbish, he did win it three times! Sorry.
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    RichN95 wrote:
    knedlicky wrote:
    It’s said that after the 1959 Tour, won by Bahamontes, the only rider to get as many invitations to post-Tour criteriums as Bahamontes, 28 invitations apparently, was the Lanterne Rouge, a Louis Bisillat, although the GC that year also included names like Anquetil, Anglade, Roger Riviere, Darrigade, Charly Gaul and Baldini - all top riders that decade.
    I think it became popularised after the 1956 Tour which Roger Walkowiak won having gained time on a break and hanging on (the 50th anniversary of this was marked by Oscar Pereiro). The French fans (who at the time may have called themselves 'French Fighters') declared that he was not a True Champion and just a wheelsucker. And there weren't many good photos of him. So they turned their attention to the man who came last and feted him in the crits.
    I saw a short documentary plus interview with Walkowiak about 10 years ago, so 40-odd years after his victory, and in the interview Walkowiak, by then in his 70s, was still clearly unhappy about how poorly his win had been accepted at the time, and how little it was remembered in France.
    Especially since he didn’t actually ‘hang on’ to yellow (as you wrote), but lost it then recaptured it.

    But things seem to have changed, in that firstly a cyclosportive now exists which carries his name (La Roger Walkowiak, takes place near Vichy). And the cyclosportive is one of about 8 in a series which count to an overall prize and bit of fame, so not unimportant to the ambitious amateur.

    And secondly, when other cyclosportives have guest celebrities attend or take part, he nowadays gets invited too, so is then in illustrious company.
    Here he is, aged 84, at the Roue d’Or sportive, which was in May this year at Argeles-Gazost in the Pyrennees.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNpqZf8QnWQ&feature=player_embedded#at=41

    In the video, at the start Indurain is on the right, then the first yellow jersey to his left is Thevenet, and the second yellow is Walkowiak. The guy between the two yellows might be Delgado.
    Merckx and Hinault were supposed to also be there, but I can’t identify them. I don’t think Merckx is yet so plump as the guy in black talking to Thevenet! When invited, Hinault usually attends cyclosportives but not to ride, rather to give the prizes.

    For the record, Thevenet and Walkowiak did the short 55 km/700 m circuit, Thevenet in 2-29, Walkowiak in 3-00 (winner was a little under 2 hours), and Indurain and Delgado did the 115 km/2700 m circuit, coming in together at 4-33 (winner was about 50 mins faster).
  • Tusher
    Tusher Posts: 2,762
    The greatest race on earth is finally underway!

    And the Team from the Vendee, Europcar, although they failed to get Tommy Voeckler in yellow, did at least bring home the Lanterne Rouge with VINCENT JEROME who came in almost 3 minutes after his nearest rival, so he must have been truly trying for the little red light.

    I hope that Jean-Rene Bernaudeau is proud of him. I imagine the Europcar boys will be cracking open a bottle of IrnBru or similar to celebrate this evening.

    Tomorrow is a little more difficult to guess, although Europcar may just manage to hang on in the Team Trial. As Bbox Bouygues, their synchronised crashing routine (in 2009?) merited a 5.8 for artistic impression.
  • Tom BB
    Tom BB Posts: 1,001
    Fine effort by Jerome.....and knowing that Europcar are unlikely to make up 3 minutes on any one team in the TTT.....he's got it for a couple of days minimum.
  • Tom BB
    Tom BB Posts: 1,001
    Another fine effort by Jerome....I'd overlooked the possibility of other riders getting dropped from their TTT trains, but Jerome held his nerve, although has seen his lead reduced to just over a minute.

    Chapeau sir! :D
  • Tusher
    Tusher Posts: 2,762
    A star in the making indeed.
  • VeloPeloton
    VeloPeloton Posts: 72
    knedlicky wrote:

    And secondly, when other cyclosportives have guest celebrities attend or take part, he nowadays gets invited too, so is then in illustrious company.
    Here he is, aged 84, at the Roue d’Or sportive, which was in May this year at Argeles-Gazost in the Pyrennees.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNpqZf8QnWQ&feature=player_embedded#at=41

    In the video, at the start Indurain is on the right, then the first yellow jersey to his left is Thevenet, and the second yellow is Walkowiak. The guy between the two yellows might be Delgado.
    Merckx and Hinault were supposed to also be there, but I can’t identify them. I don’t think Merckx is yet so plump as the guy in black talking to Thevenet! When invited, Hinault usually attends cyclosportives but not to ride, rather to give the prizes.

    For the record, Thevenet and Walkowiak did the short 55 km/700 m circuit, Thevenet in 2-29, Walkowiak in 3-00 (winner was a little under 2 hours), and Indurain and Delgado did the 115 km/2700 m circuit, coming in together at 4-33 (winner was about 50 mins faster).

    It is Mercks in the black and Delgado in the white.
    http://www.velopeloton.com/roue-dor-des-pyrenees/

    http://www.velopeloton.com/roger-walkowiak/

    http://www.velopeloton.com/roue-dor-in-saint-savin/
    Vélo Peloton Pyrénées Café and Bike Rental
    https://pyreneesrental.bike
    https://velopeloton.com/
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,738
    As with the yellow jersey, anyone carrying the latern now is just keeping it warm for the real contenders.

    Either the ones already losing touch will drop out, or they'll be overtaken by some monumentally unfortunate, gauze covered riders who regularly make it in way over the time limit, only to have the Tour organisers take pity on them and force them to turn themselves inside out and grovel for another day.
    _
  • Tom BB
    Tom BB Posts: 1,001
    Fine effort again by Jerome.....rolling in 1 and a half minutes down on the next rider and almost 6 minutes behind Farrar et al.....most of his 3 minute lead in the Lantern Rouge is back.......I'd guess at this rate Rick will be proved correct....cant see him finishing!
  • Tusher
    Tusher Posts: 2,762
    Yes, I gather he's unwell, although ITV didn't say what was wrong. Admirable to hang in there though.
  • Tusher
    Tusher Posts: 2,762
    Stage 4- Vincent Jerome retains his mailot rouge despite coming home in the same time as the Radioshack rider Dmitriy Muravyev.

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