Lactate threshold HR, MHR & zones - a spot of confusion

KnightOfTheLongTights

So I did a 30-min field test and my av. HR for the last 20 mins was 177.

1. Now in some places I have read that you need to adjust this to get your LHR, cos over 60 mins you can't quite sustain the same effort. But there's loads of sites that say you just use that reading with no adjustment as your LHR and to set zones etc...?

2. The Suunto system we use at this spin studio sets five HR zones based on max HR. Is there any way to estimate max HR from my LHR result - i.e., is there a usual ratio of one to the other? Should LHR be the middle of Z4 or the barrier between Z4&5? It seems that my MHR should be set at summat like 198-200, however ...

3. MHR: I keep maxing out at 190 in extreme efforts - I might possibly be able to get it a beat or two over that but that certainly seems to be a barrier where it doesn't like gong much further. Isn't an LHR of 177 quite 'high' for an MHR of 190 ...? Certainly if I use 190 for this Suunto system, it would give me zones that feel way 'too low'.

Sorry for going on and thanks for listening ....

lef

I wouldn't adjust for LTHR as you would a 20min FTP test (threshold power derived by deducting 5% from 20 min test results to get 60 min FTP).
Training hard with heart rate results in lag / creep so isnt entirely reliable anyway which probably swallows up the 5% adjustment.

My LTHR and MHR are similarly spaced to yours. I don't know if this is abnormal but I dont think so.

Joe Friels zones below show LTHR as between 4 & 5.

Zone 1 Less than 81% of LTHR
Zone 2 81% to 89% of LTHR
Zone 3 90% to 93% of LTHR
Zone 4 94% to 99% of LTHR
Zone 5a 100% to 102% of LTHR
Zone 5b 103% to 106% of LTHR
Zone 5c More than 106% of LTHR
See the following for more info
http://www.trainingbible.com/joesblog/2 ... zones.html

KnightOfTheLongTights

thanks lef.

I think what's confusing matters is this Suunto system, which calculates zones by MHR - so I've got to 'make up' an MHR (about 198-200?) that puts the zones in the right place vis-a-vis LHR.

doyler78

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

thanks lef.

I think what's confusing matters is this Suunto system, which calculates zones by MHR - so I've got to 'make up' an MHR (about 198-200?) that puts the zones in the right place vis-a-vis LHR.

No you pick one method and stick to it. That's about the worst thing you can do.

doyler78

lef you need to specify what those zones are meant to represent. Without that info then how cany one structure a program around them

The Friel article doesn't give you that info either but he has a reason for doing that and that's because he wants you to buy the book

Bronzie

doyler78 wrote:

No you pick one method and stick to it. That's about the worst thing you can do.

+1 - find a system that work's for you and stick with it

You can waste a lot of time worrying about getting the right HR zones when in reality it's better to use HR zones with more of a "broad brushstroke" approach. HR is too variable to get hung up on being a "zone drone".

I've tried using Friel's zones in the past and found sticking to Level 3 (Tempo) almost impossible on most rides apart from on the turbo because for me the zone was only 5bpm between L2 and L4.

KnightOfTheLongTights

OK, I'll take that on board.

Is there any way to post up a heart rate report which I have in pdf form on my desktop?

doyler78

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

OK, I'll take that on board.

Is there any way to post up a heart rate report which I have in pdf form on my desktop?

Stick it in Dropbox and link to it.

lef

doyler78 wrote:

lef you need to specify what those zones are meant to represent. Without that info then how cany one structure a program around them

The Friel article doesn't give you that info either but he has a reason for doing that and that's because he wants you to buy the book

The zones were used to explain where LTHR sits but if you're asking then training peaks explains them as this

Zone 1 Less than 81% of LTHR - RECOVERY
Zone 2 81% to 89% of LTHR - AEROBIC (ENDURANCE)
Zone 3 90% to 93% of LTHR - TEMPO
Zone 4 94% to 99% of LTHR - SUB THRESH
Zone 5a 100% to 102% of LTHR - THRESHOLD
Zone 5b 103% to 106% of LTHR - AEROBIC CAPACITY
Zone 5c More than 106% of LTHR - ANAEROBIC CAPACITY (VO2 I believe but check)

I dont pretend to be an expert on heart rate zones / training and Im more familiar with power training but hopefully the info helped. I would say to disregard the MHR zones and use zones relating to MSHR / LTHR though

jgsi

As a matter of interest, what are you training for?
I have tended to ignore HR completely for a few months now but with specific training (on the turbo and on a Spin bike when forced to), my ability to race and to suck it up has improved vastly since last year and early doors this year.
I was almost on the verge of giving in and resigning myself to a life of sportives but somehow, things just clicked into place
And this with going solely on 'feel' and how much the legs hurt in a nutshell

KnightOfTheLongTights

JGSI wrote:

As a matter of interest, what are you training for?
I have tended to ignore HR completely for a few months now but with specific training (on the turbo and on a Spin bike when forced to), my ability to race and to suck it up has improved vastly since last year and early doors this year.
I was almost on the verge of giving in and resigning myself to a life of sportives but somehow, things just clicked into place
And this with going solely on 'feel' and how much the legs hurt in a nutshell

at the moment, cross-training for mountain running with a view to a duathlon or two later in the year and getting more into cycling next year

I'm not getting any long weekend rides in as that's when I do my long run or go racing up north, so my cycling base fitness / leg-strength endurance is not as good as my running base / leg-strength endurance.

Most of my work on the bike or on these spin sessions is top-end, so I know it's a bit imbalanced but it's really improved my aerobic capacity for runs ....