Is Levi Leipheimer slowing down?

SeadooXP

Levi has always been a great climber and to see him get dropped by an older Chris Horner on stage 4 of the Tour of California was just shattering. Chris would go on to win the race, Levi 38 seconds back. I have always seen Levi as more of a super domstique as opposed to true GC condender - maybe because of all the work he did for Lance during the US Postal years. His results, nevertheless are extensive but still a void remains between himself and victory in the Grand Tours: 3rd in the Vuelta in 2001, 3rd in the TDF in 2007, 2nd in in the Vuelta in 2008, 5th in the Giro in 2009. Dont get me wrong, Levi is still one of the best in the sport, but it seems he's lost that narrow margin of victory that he's been able to ride on for most of his career? What do you guys think?

TMR

I think you need to give your head a shake. Chris Horner clearly had *assistance*.

Crankbrother

The Mad Rapper wrote:

I think you need to give your head a shake. Chris Horner clearly had *assistance*.

2 guys ride hard in the only race that actually matters to their sponsor ... Whoa, they must be cheating rather than peaking ...

Only one of them could hold their form for a week ... How many weeks did Gilbert ride like that? Or Fab?

Get a grip buddy ...

TMR

Crankbrother wrote:

2 guys ride hard in the only race that actually matters to their sponsor ... Whoa, they must be cheating rather than peaking ...

Only one of them could hold their form for a week ... How many weeks did Gilbert ride like that? Or Fab?

Get a grip buddy ...

You're a retard if you think they weren't doped. They were the only 2 'in form' riders that day? Really? If you ever see a rider making up so much time on a World class field then you need to start asking questions.

Percy Vera

Crankbrother wrote:

2 guys ride hard in the only race that actually matters to their sponsor ... Whoa, they must be cheating rather than peaking ...

Funniest thing I've read for a long time

The Mad Rapper wrote:

.... If you ever see a rider making up so much time on a World class field then you need to start asking questions.

+1

emadden

Crankbrother wrote:

The Mad Rapper wrote:

I think you need to give your head a shake. Chris Horner clearly had *assistance*.

2 guys ride hard in the only race that actually matters to their sponsor ... Whoa, they must be cheating rather than peaking ...

Only one of them could hold their form for a week ... How many weeks did Gilbert ride like that? Or Fab?

Get a grip buddy ...

Do you also believe Lance was clean?

andyp

SeadooXP wrote:

I have always seen Levi as more of a super domstique as opposed to true GC condender - maybe because of all the work he did for Lance during the US Postal years.

Leipheimer never rode the Tour for US Postal.

Kléber

He has a suspicious past. A client of Ferrari, even the UCI wanted him suspended for suspicious values and his own team manager was worried.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/holczer ... nipulation

RichN95.

The Mad Rapper wrote:

You're a retard if you think they weren't doped. They were the only 2 'in form' riders that day? Really? If you ever see a rider making up so much time on a World class field then you need to start asking questions.

If you think the likes of Rory Sutherland, Steve Moribito and Tom Danielson are 'World Class', then you're the one who needs the drug test.

TMR

RichN95 wrote:

If you think the likes of Rory Sutherland, Steve Moribito and Tom Danielson are 'World Class', then you're the one who needs the drug test.

I was speaking in general terms. Perhaps I should have separated the last sentence so that was more clear </hindsight>

Pross

Hhhmmm bloke in his late 30s getting slower on the bike - hardly a shock and something I am currently discovering for myself. The sooner he becomes so slow he is no longer worthy of a pro contract, the better as far as I am concerned.

zammmmo

The Mad Rapper wrote:

I think you need to give your head a shake. Chris Horner clearly had *assistance*.

Page 90 Procycling magazine refers to Ferrari's website mentioning Horner generated a power output of 6.73 W/kg on one of the climbs (more than Contador's Grossglockner ascent in the Giro). Now then, where have I heard the number 6.7 W/kg banded around before?

This went *some* way to explain why when I asked on another thread why Andy Schleck didn't seem to ride the TOC with the ability you might expect of someone genuinely capable of winning the TDF. That said, Schleck still doesn't seem to win like Contador in other earlier season races either.

disgruntledgoat

Who was he riding for when he got that 3rd in the Tour?

Oh right, all makes sense now.

Postal
Rabo
Gerolsteiner
Disco
Shack

TMR

zammmmo wrote:

Now then, where have I heard the number 6.7 W/kg banded around before?

LA wasn't it?

RichN95.

zammmmo wrote:

Page 90 Procycling magazine refers to Ferrari's website mentioning Horner generated a power output of 6.73 W/kg on one of the climbs (more than Contador's Grossglockner ascent in the Giro). Now then, where have I heard the number 6.7 W/kg banded around before?

But Ferrari uses his own VAM system for estimating power. It's completely lousy from a mathematical point of view, using far too many generalisations.

Any power estimates are going to be pretty inaccurate (at best +/- 10%), but his is worst than most. All of these figures should be taken with a pinch of salt.

zammmmo

RichN95 wrote:

But Ferrari uses his own VAM system for estimating power. It's completely lousy from a mathematical point of view, using far too many generalisations.

Any power estimates are going to be pretty inaccurate (at best +/- 10%), but his is worst than most. All of these figures should be taken with a pinch of salt.

OK. On this subject I have seen a 'fudge-factor' introduced for VAM calculations according to gradient. Believe it or not I think it was in Cycling Weekly (not overly known for it's scientific rigour in it's articles normally).

jonginge

Repost of an analysis of Horner's ToC climbing:
http://djconnel.blogspot.com/2011/05/ch ... speed.html

Gazzetta67

You do start to worry when Horner comes out with such statements at this year Tour of California saying that the only person who could drop him just now would be Alberto Contador mmmmm yes his climbing is getting better and FASTER as he gets older at the age of 39 no wonder a lot of us cyclists are cynical :shock:

RichN95.

Gazzetta67 wrote:

his climbing is getting better and FASTER as he gets older at the age of 39

But is he getting faster? Or are the others getting slower?

celbianchi

zammmmo wrote:

The Mad Rapper wrote:

I think you need to give your head a shake. Chris Horner clearly had *assistance*.

Page 90 Procycling magazine refers to Ferrari's website mentioning Horner generated a power output of 6.73 W/kg on one of the climbs (more than Contador's Grossglockner ascent in the Giro). Now then, where have I heard the number 6.7 W/kg banded around before?

This went *some* way to explain why when I asked on another thread why Andy Schleck didn't seem to ride the TOC with the ability you might expect of someone genuinely capable of winning the TDF. That said, Schleck still doesn't seem to win like Contador in other earlier season races either.

Schleck doesn't need to get his 'preparation' correct until July. Look at how he's getting a kicking at the Tour de Suisse. I'll eat my hat if he doesn't rip it up with front group in the TDF mountain stages. Of course a cynic like me will have an idea why this might be, someone else may want to believe that it's down to simply peaking in form. :roll:

As for anyone thinking Leipheimer and Horner's performances were credible - their heads must be so far in the sand they can almost see the earths core.

RichN95.

celbianchi wrote:

As for anyone thinking Leipheimer and Horner's performances were credible - their heads must be so far in the sand they can almost see the earths core.

Perhaps some of us don't consider beating Rory Sutherland by 15 seconds quite as an amzaing achievement as you clearly do.

zammmmo

Gazzetta67 wrote:

You do start to worry when Horner comes out with such statements at this year Tour of California saying that the only person who could drop him just now would be Alberto Contador mmmmm yes his climbing is getting better and FASTER as he gets older at the age of 39 no wonder a lot of us cyclists are cynical :shock:

I think that's maybe more to do with Horner building up his marketability seeing as though a) he's 39 and in the last chance saloon and b) The Shack as a team is IIRC on it's way out. I've noticed Boonen do this alot in the past even though (because of?) he was arguably not as good as he was.

zammmmo

JonGinge wrote:

Repost of an analysis of Horner's ToC climbing:
http://djconnel.blogspot.com/2011/05/ch ... speed.html

Thanks. This is where the internet scores - detail. This is the kind of thoroughness I'd like to see in Procycling mag.

blazing_saddles

RichN95 wrote:

Gazzetta67 wrote:

his climbing is getting better and FASTER as he gets older at the age of 39

But is he getting faster? Or are the others getting slower?

This would also explain why Leipheimer appears to be slowing down. :P

RichN95.

Blazing Saddles wrote:

This would also explain why Leipheimer appears to be slowing down. :P

True. Although to be fair to him, he can only go as fast as the wheel he's following.

squired

I think I read an interview with Horner talking about how he's taken a different approach to his diet and lost some of his "excess" weight as a result. Apparently he has a tendancy to eat fast food, so has trouble staying light. He also said that he found it easier to maintain this new weight in America and that maintaining it back in Europe in the lead up to the Tour would be a challenge.

From what I remember, Horner said that he has a habit of snacking while preparing food, so he found that eating in a restaurant allowed him to manage his consumption better.

Let us not forget that Horner got a pretty decent placing in the Tour last year (10th?), despite having to wait for and pace Lance. Had he been riding for himself he could have probably been a lot higher.

Pross

Ha ha, easier to maintain his weight in the health conscious US where fast food places are so rare

shinyhelmut

Horner talking about how he's taken a different approach to his diet and lost some of his "excess" weight

Rider loses weight and becomes Tour contendor. Now where have I heard that before? :?

prawny

RichN95 wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

This would also explain why Leipheimer appears to be slowing down. :P

True. Although to be fair to him, he can only go as fast as the wheel he's following.

Quality

BikingBernie

ShinyHelmut wrote:

Horner talking about how he's taken a different approach to his diet and lost some of his "excess" weight

Rider loses weight and becomes Tour contendor. Now where have I heard that before? :?

Wiggins?

Supergoose

Lance debriefs Levi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVsp4X7Y8VI