Broken frame :(

dhope

Sketchley wrote:

dhope wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/help/warranty

"Planet-X branded products carry a 2 year warranty for the original owner"

As a C2W bike you are not the original owner. You would have no claim even if under 2 years old.

Curious, I had a rear brake replaced under warranty... it's a Halfords C2W bike

Warranty is different to the Sale of Goods Act.

Yep, though I'd not be the owner. Guess I'd reasonably be acting on behalf of the owner... (for Warranty purposes that is, not SoG)

fossyant

There are PLENTY of premium carbon frame manufacturers that offer just 2 year warranties as well - many if the Italian companies to start.

3.5 years is rubbish.

rolf_f

dhope wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

dhope wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/help/warranty

"Planet-X branded products carry a 2 year warranty for the original owner"

As a C2W bike you are not the original owner. You would have no claim even if under 2 years old.

Curious, I had a rear brake replaced under warranty... it's a Halfords C2W bike

Warranty is different to the Sale of Goods Act.

Yep, though I'd not be the owner. Guess I'd reasonably be acting on behalf of the owner... (for Warranty purposes that is, not SoG)

The warranty on my Look applies to the original purchaser - which might be me rather than my employer (does purchaser necessarily = owner?). In any case, I paid for the frame out of my own money. The C2W bit is the wheels and part of the groupset........

As for my Ribble - there is no mention of warranties on the Ribble site at all.

Seriously though, any company that wriggles out of a warranty claim citing C2W technicalities needs to be named and shamed. Whether or not is is legitimate in law (and I'd want a tech expert lawyer to answer that one) it certainly isn't in spirit.

sketchley

dhope wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

dhope wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/help/warranty

"Planet-X branded products carry a 2 year warranty for the original owner"

As a C2W bike you are not the original owner. You would have no claim even if under 2 years old.

Curious, I had a rear brake replaced under warranty... it's a Halfords C2W bike

Warranty is different to the Sale of Goods Act.

Yep, though I'd not be the owner. Guess I'd reasonably be acting on behalf of the owner... (for Warranty purposes that is, not SoG)

Indeed, also at that point the bike was not yours, so you would be acting on behalf of owner (your firm) as the original owner the warranty applies. However once transfered to you for FMV at end of period warranty no longer valid as you are not original owner. Although it doesn't say the original owner still has to own the bike to claim. So after year one your firm could claim even though you owned the bike, there would then be tax problems regarding a benefit recieved though.... I think I'm drifting OT now....

gtvlusso

EKE_38BPM wrote:

gtvlusso wrote:

...3.5 years is a fair old while...

You think 3.5 years is a long time for a bike frame to last?!? (And for the first time ever) :shock: (I don't use emoticons)

I know Colin Chapman said:
[paraphrasing]"The perfect race car would cross the finish line in first place and then fall to bits."[/paraphrasing],
but I really don't think that 42 months is a reasonable lifespan for a bike frame that is sold to the public, no matter what material it is made from.

If it was a frame for a pro rider doing pro races, fair enough, but that just seems way too short in my opinion. Five years is the minimum I would expect it to last and even then I would be highly miffed if it died on its fifth birthday.

Spassy, how long is the Planet X warranty?

We are talking about a "cheap" carbon frame - PX being one of the cheapest on the market. I don't know the OP's routine, but it could be used everyday, whatever the weather for a huge weekly mileage on rubbish roads - hence, I would not be surprised it failed.

So - I guess it depends on the OPS mileage, weight, road type and distances travelled weekly. Totally subjective.

Hence I only have steel frames from 1982 (531 SL), 1991 (853) and a Surly MTB (4130). Last a very long time and can be repaired with ease.

**My 531Sl frame is weight limited to 90kg. I am spot on 90kg!**

spasypaddy

gtvlusso wrote:

We are talking about a "cheap" carbon frame - PX being one of the cheapest on the market. I don't know the OP's routine, but it could be used everyday, whatever the weather for a huge weekly mileage on rubbish roads - hence, I would not be surprised it failed.

So - I guess it depends on the OPS mileage, weight, road type and distances travelled weekly. Totally subjective.

Hence I only have steel frames from 1982 (531 SL), 1991 (853) and a Surly MTB (4130). Last a very long time and can be repaired with ease.

**My 531Sl frame is weight limited to 90kg. I am spot on 90kg!**

For the first 2 years the bike never saw the wet. It never got commuted on heavily as i have a steel fixie that when i did commute every day was used for the purpose and was actually bought soley to save the PX. Last winter the PX was used sparingly for training sessions (so maybe 25-30miles twice a week). Honestly the bike has had a charmed life and been looked after and well maintained.

there is no way the bike should have cracked like that.

spasypaddy

oh and thanks sketchley, i have fired an email off to halfords yesterday evening. I have also spoken to consumer direct who say that i have a claim through 3rd party rights and the sales of goods act.

i can only sit and wait, see what happens now.

dhope

spasypaddy wrote:

oh and thanks sketchley, i have fired an email off to halfords yesterday evening. I have also spoken to consumer direct who say that i have a claim through 3rd party rights and the sales of goods act.

i can only sit and wait, see what happens now.

Interesting, do let us know how it turns out.

sketchley

dhope wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

oh and thanks sketchley, i have fired an email off to halfords yesterday evening. I have also spoken to consumer direct who say that i have a claim through 3rd party rights and the sales of goods act.

i can only sit and wait, see what happens now.

Interesting, do let us know how it turns out.

Yes please do.

Keith1983

I wish you all the best with this mate, but I can't help but think that you're pee'ing into the wind.

spasypaddy

Keith1983 wrote:

I wish you all the best with this mate, but I can't help but think that you're pee'ing into the wind.

i agree but having just ordered my new best bike and ribble not getting their winter trainer in for another 6-8weeks (in my size) i havent got anything to lose.

and carbonology aren't exactly forthcoming in wanting my business.


and any responses i get i'll post in this thread

gtvlusso

spasypaddy wrote:

gtvlusso wrote:

We are talking about a "cheap" carbon frame - PX being one of the cheapest on the market. I don't know the OP's routine, but it could be used everyday, whatever the weather for a huge weekly mileage on rubbish roads - hence, I would not be surprised it failed.

So - I guess it depends on the OPS mileage, weight, road type and distances travelled weekly. Totally subjective.

Hence I only have steel frames from 1982 (531 SL), 1991 (853) and a Surly MTB (4130). Last a very long time and can be repaired with ease.

**My 531Sl frame is weight limited to 90kg. I am spot on 90kg!**

For the first 2 years the bike never saw the wet. It never got commuted on heavily as i have a steel fixie that when i did commute every day was used for the purpose and was actually bought soley to save the PX. Last winter the PX was used sparingly for training sessions (so maybe 25-30miles twice a week). Honestly the bike has had a charmed life and been looked after and well maintained.

there is no way the bike should have cracked like that.

In that case - yes 3.5 years is a short time frame. But you have to wonder why PX give a 2 year warranty. Perhaps they are aware of the cheaper nature of their frames? Certainly don't mean to belittle is a the SL is a great bike and well respected. But it kinda makes you think about manufacture and frame price - is a bargain, really a bargain?

MonkeyMonster

gtvlusso wrote:

is a bargain, really a bargain?

ahh, the age old - having your cake and eating it point with added bonus, get what you pay for etc.

Sometimes you can be lucky and enjoy the whole thing, sometimes just a nibble, often just get to look at it and occasionaly you get it back in your face but sporadically someone has put bits of glass and rabid animals in it to, just to really fuck you.

iPete

I'm afraid these things happen, no matter how well looked after you can't really blame PX.

As a DSLR user the mirrors in those things have an expected number of actuation's but can break anywhere between 1 and a millions photos.

The same goes for any component, my BB lasted 8,000 miles, my mates 500. Not much lasts several years these days, especially not when your shopping for bargain lightweight components.

But as you've got nothing to use, go for it.

spasypaddy

if the frame had snapped completely whilst i was riding it and id ended up doing some damage to myself then i would have been sought legal advice and probably embarked on a law suit. i dont think asking for a frame replacement is too much. especially when they are selling them a £299.99 on their website and still making profit on them.

Cleat Eastwood

spasypaddy wrote:

Keith1983 wrote:

I wish you all the best with this mate, but I can't help but think that you're pee'ing into the wind.

i agree but having just ordered my new best bike and ribble not getting their winter trainer in for another 6-8weeks (in my size) i havent got anything to lose.

and carbonology aren't exactly forthcoming in wanting my business.


and any responses i get i'll post in this thread

You need to send a pic. I emailed them a few months back, still no reply to the original email. Sent a email with pic and got a response within minutes.

rolf_f

Worn bottom brackets are one thing but are frames really now a consumable? It's a bit pathetic to say 'well it's cheap so it doesn't matter if it breaks'. Stuff is too cheap but it is the manufacturers that have allowed this to happen. It isn't an excuse for them to flog poorly engineered cack and expect the customer to accept it. Pile it high, sell it cheap should, and normally does accept that failures occur and that it is the responsibility of the supplier to take the hit when they do happen. Much of the time I think consumer laws are far to biased towards the consumer but not in this case.

I'm starting to be glad that my Ribble Gran Fondo is a bit on the chunky side for a carbon frame.

spasypaddy

sent an email with a pic monday afternoon. rang yesterday and asked if they were going to look at it and i got told yes we will contact you later this afternoon (yesterday), still not heard anything.

dhope

iPete wrote:

I'm afraid these things happen, no matter how well looked after you can't really blame PX.

Can't blame PX, no. They'll price the frames taking into account the probability of a frame failing early. Everyone else is paying for his bad luck, and with every non failed part on his bike he's paying a little bit for someone else's bad luck. S'how it should work

Nicholls2k

Show us a pic!

notsoblue

Does anyone know which manufacturers tend to give a lifetime warranty on their frames?

spasypaddy

trek and specialized do lifetime warranties, however ive seen them both refuse it.

gtvlusso

spasypaddy wrote:

if the frame had snapped completely whilst i was riding it and id ended up doing some damage to myself then i would have been sought legal advice and probably embarked on a law suit. i dont think asking for a frame replacement is too much. especially when they are selling them a £299.99 on their website and still making profit on them.

That would have been awful and I am very glad that you have not had this happen. However, they only offer 2 years for a warranty - so, I guess they know the frame lifespan from manufacture as such. I am no legal eagle, but I am pretty sure that the frame age and warranty lapse would have to be taken into account if you had sued - due to injury/frame failure.

As it is, I am very glad that you have not had a faceplant because of frame failure.

I think PX could help you out a bit more in this case, maybe split the difference or offer at cost. But, I guess that rules is rules and if they do this for one person. Then they do it on the entire range of products for everyone.

gtvlusso

spasypaddy wrote:

trek and specialized do lifetime warranties, however ive seen them both refuse it.

Is that the chain stay or the seat stay? Difficult to tell. Looks like where the frame bonds to the dropout material?

Can you enlighten?

dhope

gtvlusso wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

if the frame had snapped completely whilst i was riding it and id ended up doing some damage to myself then i would have been sought legal advice and probably embarked on a law suit. i dont think asking for a frame replacement is too much. especially when they are selling them a £299.99 on their website and still making profit on them.

That would have been awful and I am very glad that you have not had this happen. However, they only offer 2 years for a warranty - so, I guess they know the frame lifespan from manufacture as such. I am no legal eagle, but I am pretty sure that the frame age and warranty lapse would have to be taken into account if you had sued - due to injury/frame failure.

As it is, I am very glad that you have not had a faceplant because of frame failure.

I think PX could help you out a bit more in this case, maybe split the difference or offer at cost. But, I guess that rules is rules and if they do this for one person. Then they do it on the entire range of products for everyone.

You're reading too much into a warranty. Warranty is above and beyond reasonable wear and tear. Sale of Goods Act supersedes an insufficient warranty.
If a seller plasters "No returns" all over the shop. Tough sh*t, it can't trump statutory rights.
1 year TV warranty? Nah, doesn't work that way either, the goods must be fit for purpose.

spasypaddy

gtvlusso - its the seat stay, had to turn the bike upside down to take a photo as the crack is on the underside. (if you look to the right you can see the underside of the saddle)

planet x havent even asked to see the photo/damage.

rolf_f

gtvlusso wrote:

That would have been awful and I am very glad that you have not had this happen. However, they only offer 2 years for a warranty - so, I guess they know the frame lifespan from manufacture as such.

A warranty is meant to cover you for the time it takes for a manufacturing defect to show itself - not an expected lifespan of a product. This is why, if you ever have to return a product under warranty, you shouldn't take any crap from the supplier trying to say that the replacement item warranty is only for the period remaining of the original warranty. A replacement item should be covered for the same period of time as the original.

Here the potential defect has taken longer to surface. The right thing for PX to do would be to examine the frame and objectively determine if the failure is due to a manufacturing defect (which it certainly looks like it is from the photo). Just because it is out of their warranty period doesn't mean they can absolve themselves of responsibility.

The Rookie

Why has no-one blamed Wiggle yet.....

That failure looks like a manufacturing defect, no way if the material was layed up properly would it fail across the fibres in a neat line like that, I'm also pretty disgusted that PX have only offered you a frame at current retail price with NO discount at all, that is shoddy customer service, they could at least have said "well it's design life is 5 years, you've had 3.5 years so we'll knock a third off and call it £199. Noting that 1/3 is probably their mark up anyway!

You could always post your bike in their readers rides....... http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/readers ... =date-desc

Simon

spasypaddy

Rolf F wrote:

Here the potential defect has taken longer to surface. The right thing for PX to do would be to examine the frame and objectively determine if the failure is due to a manufacturing defect (which it certainly looks like it is from the photo). Just because it is out of their warranty period doesn't mean they can absolve themselves of responsibility.

they havent even asked for photo proof or for me to send the frame back, as you can see from the photo its on the underside of the tubing. not exactly a place that something can be dropped on, and not on the side so no side impact.

amaferanga

Ever had a pannier rack or mudguards fitted with p-clips? I guess not or you'd obviously have said, but that was my first thought when I saw the picture.

Think this is the first failure I've heard of for P-X frames so maybe they are very rare.

Hope you get it sorted out anyway.