Are the Dragon Ride organisers listening?

Mingsta

red ed wrote:

Most people in cycling understand that the UK Sportive scene as currently arranged is a bubble.

Hi Red Ed - I'm curious to know the thinking behind this. Could you elaborate?

bendertherobot

red ed wrote:

And sorry, but if you're getting spooked by a rider coming past you then the problem is with you. The overtaking rider may shout a warning but you should know what is happening on the road around you and you should be following a straight predictable line.

If the rider behind could see the potholes that you're about to avoid on the blind bend then he would know what you're going to do. Fact is being behind you assume you have the right to assume that the guy in front should give way to you. Remember that, just like cars following bikes, you need to have consideration for what's going on in front of you.

bs147

I've raced cars all over Europe for the past 18 years - the etiquette in motor racing is for the faster drivers/cars to find a way past the slower drivers/cars in front of them. The person in front is not supposed to move off the line they are on - to get out of the way or to let someone past - unless it is safe to do so. So, it's an awareness thing really - for both parties. Our events are quite long, so the odd second here or there really can't spoil someones day but an avoidable accident clearly can. Common sense approach required really.

In the XC racing I've done, I agree, instructions from behind are to be very specific - most organisers make this clear. Politeness is often lacking - a please and thank you go a long way to effective co-operation.

Having done several Etapes I've found riding standards to be generally worse as people take liberties they wouldn't take if they were sharing with cars.

bendertherobot

bs147 wrote:

I've raced cars all over Europe for the past 18 years - the etiquette in motor racing is for the faster drivers/cars to find a way past the slower drivers/cars in front of them. The person in front is not supposed to move off the line they are on - to get out of the way or to let someone past - unless it is safe to do so. So, it's an awareness thing really - for both parties. Our events are quite long, so the odd second here or there really can't spoil someones day but an avoidable accident clearly can. Common sense approach required really.

In the XC racing I've done, I agree, instructions from behind are to be very specific - most organisers make this clear. Politeness is often lacking - a please and thank you go a long way to effective co-operation.

Having done several Etapes I've found riding standards to be generally worse as people take liberties they wouldn't take if they were sharing with cars.

True, though, on a circuit, one would expect a reasonable surface. Imagine haring down the Bwlch, you round the bend, massive pothole. Ed would have you look over your shoulder here and check it's safe to move out, by which time you're dead.

benno68

I thought the standard of cycling was decent on the whole, although there were a number pootling around the course in the middle of the road and the odd pair cycling side by side with a 2 metre gap between them.

I didn't see any dangerous riding on the event.

I could have done with that sheep giving me some warning though, that was a near miss in Ogmore!

Anonymous

A Sportive is a mass timed event.

A race is a race.

Expecting everyone to have a race standard of riding in a sportive is very optimistic, you don't get 4th cat races with people holding a "line"

Just to clarify.

Krys

Thanks guys. That was exactly my point.

I do look behind me. But I'm very keen on looking where I'm going too! If, when I look behind me, I see you coming I will get out of the way (potholes notwithstanding...). However riders who might be doing 40mph downhill can arrive behind you very quickly - I can't be permanently looking behind me and if I wanted a rear view mirror I'd be on a touring bike . Again with the looking where I'm going...the road ahead is more likely to hold hazards. In an open road situation the right hand lane may give an opportunity to overtake, but there is always the risk that there is a car coming that you are unaware of. If the road is closed and you're so skilled as to be able to descend at such speeds, then surely you have more road on which to get 'round me?

Anyway...I know what the racing line is, but as it's not a race, taking an extra couple of seconds to get past me safely is not the end of the world. And presumably I'm as entitled as any other rider to be on that racing line, even if I'm not going as fast as you are?

I do the best I can, and the most important thing to me is getting to the end of my ride in one piece. Shouldn't we be encouraging other cyclist to join and share our sport, rather than dismissing them (and me?) for not being trained racing cyclists?

benno68

dmclite wrote:

A Sportive is a mass timed event.

Just to clarify.

But not the Dragonride Sportive

Anonymous

Benno68 wrote:

dmclite wrote:

A Sportive is a mass timed event.

Just to clarify.

But not the Dragonride Sportive

Touche'

speshsteve

check out the review in road cycling uk....do these guys own the press, both written and digital?

http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/event-news ... /6789.html

Davey C

Re: Awareness and holding lines. You are in a mass start event with riders all around you and potentially overtaking. No experienced bunch rider would ever make a sudden move without a quick check over their shoulder, just as you wouldn't do it in a car without a quick glance in a mirror.

If you genuinely believe that you can wander all over the road because the guys behind you should be anticipating every erratic move you make then stick to your sportives. You're not welcome in any road races or road rides I do.

Krys

Did anyone say they would be erratically wandering all over the road? I just said I'm just as l likely to be taking the racing line as you are and the fact that you're going faster doesn't give you an exclusive right to it. I always look over my shoulder before I pull out or manoeuvre, what I don't do is constantly check behind me in case there's someone coming who feels I should get out of his/her way. Why can't we be equally considerate of each other?

bendertherobot

Davey C wrote:

Re: Awareness and holding lines. You are in a mass start event with riders all around you and potentially overtaking. No experienced bunch rider would ever make a sudden move without a quick check over their shoulder, just as you wouldn't do it in a car without a quick glance in a mirror.

If you genuinely believe that you can wander all over the road because the guys behind you should be anticipating every erratic move you make then stick to your sportives. You're not welcome in any road races or road rides I do.

I'm quite happy not to have to ride with you.

deal

speshsteve wrote:

check out the review in road cycling uk....do these guys own the press, both written and digital?

http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/event-news ... /6789.html

I would be more worried about this piece here - http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... tatus.html

However, organizers of the world's largest sportive - the Cape Argus sportive -, have worked with Dragon Ride and believe it may be able to achieve numbers upwards of forty thousand if closed road status were achieved.

Organizers hope to increase the numbers another ten percent for next year.

I think they should concentrate on delivering a managing existing numbers a bit better before they even think about increasing numbers. Article was published before the event so maybe they might abandone the increase...

oldwelshman

Krys wrote:

Did anyone say they would be erratically wandering all over the road? I just said I'm just as l likely to be taking the racing line as you are and the fact that you're going faster doesn't give you an exclusive right to it. I always look over my shoulder before I pull out or manoeuvre, what I don't do is constantly check behind me in case there's someone coming who feels I should get out of his/her way. Why can't we be equally considerate of each other?

I think common senseis the best approach!
You cannot compare a sportice to a race for descending, and cannot compare cars and bikes.
The difference with a race is that "MOST" riders will be of similar ability and experienceand know the lines to take so it is up to the overtaking rider to pass off the racing line when possible.
This is entirely differnt so some one descending fast on a sportive and passing some one doing 25mph, braking in bend and drifitng out of the bends.
I saw this a few times in dragon and obviously gave warning shout to stay left as I try to pass on outside.
Never mind the descnts I even had to cross the centre of the road to pass riders riding two abreast but some how taking up entire left lane whilst riding left to right and drifting but you just have to give warning and pass to th right when possible.

oldwelshman

deal wrote:

speshsteve wrote:

check out the review in road cycling uk....do these guys own the press, both written and digital?

http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/event-news ... /6789.html

I would be more worried about this piece here - http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... tatus.html

However, organizers of the world's largest sportive - the Cape Argus sportive -, have worked with Dragon Ride and believe it may be able to achieve numbers upwards of forty thousand if closed road status were achieved.

Organizers hope to increase the numbers another ten percent for next year.

I think they should concentrate on delivering a managing existing numbers a bit better before they even think about increasing numbers. Article was published before the event so maybe they might abandone the increase...

Nothing wrong with being ambitious
I actually think it would be possible to get that many riders if it were closed road and it would be more manageable thoughthey woud have to improve the feedstations and start finish areas.
With the current set up I think it is too many riders to manage.

jgsi

Davey C wrote:

Re: Awareness and holding lines. You are in a mass start event with riders all around you and potentially overtaking. No experienced bunch rider would ever make a sudden move without a quick check over their shoulder, just as you wouldn't do it in a car without a quick glance in a mirror.

If you genuinely believe that you can wander all over the road because the guys behind you should be anticipating every erratic move you make then stick to your sportives. You're not welcome in any road races or road rides I do.

I'd save your breath ... if any of these wanderers ever took part in a road race/crit, they'd be perhaps spat out the back soon enough, but people should be encouraged to hone up their handling skills ..
I think you need to choose one's sportives in the Uk very wisely... I cant afford to go sur le continent, but have lined up the Stoke tour ride at end of season and of course hoping for a drier Rourkie C&F run this year in October (please , my shoes took a month to dry out last time)

bendertherobot

JGSI wrote:

Davey C wrote:

I'd save your breath ... if any of these wanderers ever took part in a road race/crit, they'd be perhaps spat out the back soon enough, but people should be encouraged to hone up their handling skills ..
)

They're not, they're in a mass participation event for fun. Cycling along roads they probably don't know with tossers behind them who believe that the front rider must sacrifice themselves on that sudden danger rather than cause trouble for them.

jgsi

bendertherobot wrote:

JGSI wrote:

Davey C wrote:

I'd save your breath ... if any of these wanderers ever took part in a road race/crit, they'd be perhaps spat out the back soon enough, but people should be encouraged to hone up their handling skills ..
)

They're not, they're in a mass participation event for fun. Cycling along roads they probably don't know with tossers behind them who believe that the front rider must sacrifice themselves on that sudden danger rather than cause trouble for them.

I thought the Dragon was a fairly 'serious' undertaking.... hence the keen interest in times taken????

Krys

Most people who do a marathon are not racing. They want to know their times though - to know what they achieved, maybe how they compare to others, and maybe to beat their own PB. Sportives are cycling marathons, no?

nickwill

I do half a dozen or so UK sportives a year, mainly in the north of England, and rode the Dragon in 2009 and 2010. The riding standard on the Dragon is by far the worst I've come across both in terms of group riding and descending skills. I think this is down to the number of riders attracted and also that it attracts large numbers from areas of the country where there are few hills to hone descending skills. In a way this is no-one's fault , and people need to learn somewhere, but it is something to be borne in mind for one's own safety.
I'm amazed at the numbers attracted to the Dragon Ride because the route is pretty good but not in the same league as many events like 'Le Terrier' which attract a fraction of the number of participants. For the organisers to claim that it is the UK's number 1 sportive is ludicrous when there are events like the Fred Whitton and the Etape du Dales which have much greater tradition, difficulty and kudos than the Dragon Ride will ever attain.
If you want to do a proper sportive without all the hassles which stopped me entering the Dragon ride this year, you need to head further north.

Vega 165

When you enter any sportive you should realize that anyone can enter regardless of experience so complaining that inexperienced cyclists are getting in the way is nonsense IMHO.

If cars passed as close as some of the club groups pass slower cyclists we would be shaking fists at them.

jgsi

Vega 165 wrote:

When you enter any sportive you should realize that anyone can enter regardless of experience so complaining that inexperienced cyclists are getting in the way is nonsense IMHO.

If cars passed as close as some of the club groups pass slower cyclists we would be shaking fists at them.

from the Dragon T&Cs
"You are requested to ride in single file where appropriate and no more than 2 abreast at any time. Please be aware of your fellow cyclists and other traffic. Please indicate your intention to stop or change direction. "
Thats all is asked really.. not much to ask tho' is it? experienced or otherwise and no one should feel excluded either.
The organisers could have couched it in terms of ' if you cross a busy junction and are aware of riders following in the safe gap behind you. DON't stop to admire your reflection in a shop window by slamming your anchors on, to get a better view'

bendertherobot

JGSI wrote:

from the Dragon T&Cs
"You are requested to ride in single file where appropriate and no more than 2 abreast at any time. Please be aware of your fellow cyclists and other traffic. Please indicate your intention to stop or change direction. "
Thats all is asked really.. not much to ask tho' is it? experienced or otherwise and no one should feel excluded either.
The organisers could have couched it in terms of ' if you cross a busy junction and are aware of riders following in the safe gap behind you. DON't stop to admire your reflection in a shop window by slamming your anchors on, to get a better view'

A few points. It doesn't put the onus on the "front rider" in the T&C's but on all riders. Including the one overtaking to ensure that it is safe to do so. When I overtake I always check behind me but I also look through what the cyclist in front is facing so that I know he won't have to change his line either. It would be nice, when commuting, if cars could do this as well. As for changing direction, I tend to always go forward

lycrabrain

Vega 165 wrote:

When you enter any sportive you should realize that anyone can enter regardless of experience so complaining that inexperienced cyclists are getting in the way is nonsense IMHO.

If cars passed as close as some of the club groups pass slower cyclists we would be shaking fists at them.

Spot on! I'm 58 and one of the slower riders but I have cycled all over Europe for over 30 years. I do these events as a fitness goal usually alone or with my two sons as company. I get pissed off being hemmed in to a potholed gutter by groups of 10 - 20 club types, slavishly draughting each other for a good finish time. I now move out about a metre to give myself room to avoid damaging a wheel when these cheats try to bully me over. On descents I always give myself room like the pros so overtakers can take their chances to gain vital seconds.

itisaboutthebike

I think that they probably want everyone to send in the times from their computers, which obviously is open to all manner of 'untruths', but the only option.

I'll stick with 4h 26m they have me listed for the 122 miles. My fastest ever ever ever ride - ever ! Did I say ever ?

And do you knopw what ? I might even do it again next year - perhaps I mite even do it quicker (if the chips don't work again ! - well i can but hope !)

itisaboutthebike

Sportives are cycling marathons, no?

Yes !

benno68

itisaboutthebike wrote:

I think that they probably want everyone to send in the times from their computers, which obviously is open to all manner of 'untruths', but the only option.

I'll stick with 4h 26m they have me listed for the 122 miles. My fastest ever ever ever ride - ever ! Did I say ever ?

And do you knopw what ? I might even do it again next year - perhaps I mite even do it quicker (if the chips don't work again ! - well i can but hope !)

I must have been so quick they couldn't register me.

itisaboutthebike

must have been so quick they couldn't register me.

Yeah you and quite a few other people. No time = no fee. I'd complain to Trading Standards............................I mite be doing so shortly.

itisaboutthebike

And the title of this thread is...............

Are the Dragon Ride organisers listening?

Obviously some of the posters aren't !

If you want to comment of shyte riding start a 'shyte Dargon Ride riding' topic !