Problem with bad back and using my hardtail....help

Darra8

Hi Guys,

I have a Rock Lobster Tig Team HT that I built myself with an all up weight of 23.5 LBS. I weigh just under 12 stone and just enjoy getting out on the bike. I don't ride fast or hard, this is partly because I'm a pussy and partly because of my bad back. It's usually OK, but last Friday I was enjoying the new blue trail at CYB a little too much. I ended up riding the new sections 4 times, as it was so much fun. It has 3 very small drop offs which can't be anything more than around 6 inches, but that's seemingly enough to ruin my back for the next week or so.

It's currently fitted with 2.1 tyres, and I'm wondering if fitting the biggest I can fit, 2.3/2.4, would make things any better?

Any other advice, apart from buy a full sus, would be very much appreciated.

Cheers,

Steve

D-Cyph3r

High volume tyres at low(er) pressure will add a good bit of float and conformity to the terrain, Bontrager are about the biggest i've found, the 2.35" XR4's I have here are massive compared to the 2.35" Nobby Nics I had before.

Get a Stan's tubeless conversion kit and some sealant and try it out, might take out just enough to keep you going.

BennyB

That sounds like sound advice to me

Anonymous

Just checking, but you ARE standing up out of the seat right?

Darra8

Yes, I spend as much time as I can out of the seat with my knees bent

Anonymous

Just checking!
Maybe the frame is too long, or too short for you, causing your back to be held in an awkward position.

Darra8

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Just checking!
Maybe the frame is too long, or too short for you, causing your back to be held in an awkward position.

My back is fooked anyway, and has been for years, so whatever I ride will have the same effect. I just want to make things as smooth as possible so I can still ride.

Steve_F

Most of the time bad backs come down to lack of core strength. May not be applicable in your case but might be worth doing more core strength exercises?

warpcow

Steve_F wrote:

Most of the time bad backs come down to lack of core strength. May not be applicable in your case but might be worth doing more core strength exercises?

This could be somewhat applicable. Is it the drop-offs themselves, or the simple fact that you were out for a long time riding, that have caused the pain? I get back-pain (even on my FS) from long periods in the saddle, but it's rarely worsened much by the actual roughness of the terrain.

nozzac

I'm a long-time back sufferer myself having had operations etc. My HT gives my back serious gyp but it's nothing to do with it being too stiff, it's just the riding position. It's an old school XC bike which really throws you forward and I've shortened the stem and put riser bars on it. But it appears I've not quite got the geometry right and whilst it's more fun to ride now, it really hurts my back after an hour or two. I believe it's quite specific to me and will be altering it until it suits.

I bought a cheap FS recently and it's transformed my riding pleasure. The more upright position and ability to stay in the saddle over bumpy/rooty trails is absolute bliss and I can ride all day with no problems.

I agree about core stability. Check out the writings/books of Prof. S. McGill - the world authority on spinal mechancs.

Darra8

warpcow wrote:

Steve_F wrote:

Most of the time bad backs come down to lack of core strength. May not be applicable in your case but might be worth doing more core strength exercises?

This could be somewhat applicable. Is it the drop-offs themselves, or the simple fact that you were out for a long time riding, that have caused the pain? I get back-pain (even on my FS) from long periods in the saddle, but it's rarely worsened much by the actual roughness of the terrain.

It's just the drop off's that jar my lower back and result in a week of pain. Normal riding is OK and doesn't seem to effect me too much.

Anonymous

I hate to be a spoilsport, but if those little drops on the blue are causing you grief, then maybe you should give the riding a rest until you've seen a physio, or a spinal specialist. We checked out the blue last weekend, as a potential place to take new riders, and they're not even the size of kerb stones, they're about 3 inches, tops.
Something is definitely not right.

Darra8

yeehaamcgee wrote:

I hate to be a spoilsport, but if those little drops on the blue are causing you grief, then maybe you should give the riding a rest until you've seen a physio, or a spinal specialist. We checked out the blue last weekend, as a potential place to take new riders, and they're not even the size of kerb stones, they're about 3 inches, tops.
Something is definitely not right.

No, your not being a spoilsport, as I said, my backed is knackered Years of poor manual handling and premature drying/ageing of the discs in my spine are the cause. I already have a specialist and have had one disc removed already from my neck :shock. This is purely a case of trying to make the best of a bad job. Hence the original question....

Been looking around the net this morning and there are some good deals to be had on racing ralphs and rocket rons, which are the best all rounder?

Thewaylander

Also try and invest in a simple back support, House mate picked up a neoprane one which straps round under his top, hardly noticible but helps with longer rides, just adding a bit of support.

ste_t

Darra8 wrote:

Been looking around the net this morning and there are some good deals to be had on racing ralphs and rocket rons, which are the best all rounder?

Definitely not a good idea. As the side walls are notoriously delicate, you won't be able to run at a low enough pressure to be comfortable without constant pinch flats (IMO anyway...) unless you go tubeless.

I did have a racing ralph on the rear for a couple of rides and although the improvement in speed was phenominal, the 11 puntures in those 2 rides wasn't.

Steve_F

If you're seeing a specialist do they not have something to say or recommend about this situation? I know if they're not into biking they can't help with the set up but could they not recommend what would cause problems or speak to colleagues who do bike?

Darra8

Steve_F wrote:

If you're seeing a specialist do they not have something to say or recommend about this situation? I know if they're not into biking they can't help with the set up but could they not recommend what would cause problems or speak to colleagues who do bike?

Without major surgery there is nothing that can be done. It is really just a case of trying to manage it as best I can. But, the older I get, the worse it will be

camy151

You should maybe look into a suspension seatpost, might help take the edge off some of the bumps. My mate also has a bad back and does stretching exercises that now allow him to mountain bike and play fives.

Thewaylander

Personally I'd just look into full bouce to protect yoru back as best you can mate.

even hardcore hardtail fan will admit in these kinda circumstances they make a good case for themselves.

Anonymous

camy151 wrote:

You should maybe look into a suspension seatpost, might help take the edge off some of the bumps. My mate also has a bad back and does stretching exercises that now allow him to mountain bike and play fives.

Except if he's going off drops, standing up, the suspended seatpost will do nothing at all to help.

nozzac

If your back isn't improvable then I say check out some FS. As I said previously, that's one reason I got one and it's made riding a real pleasure again.

tony620

i suffer from bad back to mate i am only 25 result of a bad car crash and over abused when at work lifting everyday for 6 years...

I do core training every week plenty of sit ups etc and still does nothing to improve it. i run a 2.35 ignitor on the back of my bike and can say it does not help as much as a full sus. i went to cyb on a 140mm full suspension and finished the day as fresh as anything completed 3 days riding without a problem. This time i used my HT with big tyres and my back was aching like anything. I am currently looking at a short travel full suspension to take the sting out because i cannot see any other cure...

Anonymous

Isn't your 140mm fully a cure, by the sounds of it?

Darra8

Just got some racing ralph 2.4's as a potential cheap fix, but I think I could be on the look out for a 4" full sus frame to swap the parts from my HT.

Getting old is sh!t

nozzac

tony620 wrote:

I do core training every week plenty of sit ups etc and still does nothing to improve it.

You shouldn't be doing sit-ups at all if you have a bad back. The current theory is all about static stability - the ability to support the spine in a fixed, strong position even when the res to of the body is moving. Plus the repeated flexion can damage the joint facets and the disks.

Do yourself a favour and google Prof Stuart McGill's exercises. Here is a link to get you started: http://fixyourownback.com/blog/?p=86. His books are good but heavy going as designed for doctors and physios. He's a scientist but also a practising clinician who works with sports people with bad back problems.

Anonymous

Is the specialist a doctor / consultant type? Have you seen a physio also?

I'm sure you probably have already. It's just that they can sometimes assist in giving you the right exercises that can help and advise on posture, whereas a consultant will be more interested in what can be done medically (surgery etc).

One thing I hear a lot, and have found works a bit myself is that a key thing they look to do is essentially stretch the spine, especially if you have dodgy discs.

Busting up mine, the back can ache in all kinds of ways on and off, but one thing that actually works for it is riding the bike. The physio has me doing curved back stretching exercises and the riding position kind of does the same. However it can ache a bit after the ride, but the more often I get out and ride the better it is.

*But* my case is with an injury that's healing, which is somewhat different to your situation I suspect.

But I definitely should add that I'm not a doctor or physio and don't accept anything I say as medical advice!, talk to a professional

Other possibility perhaps is to sort out the riding technique so that those drops are smooth and the impact on the back is minimal. How, I don't know as I'm not skilled in that myself. A skills course perhaps?

And yeah, full sus. HT at CYB seems like literally hard work and back breaking

Darra8

deadkenny wrote:

Is the specialist a doctor / consultant type? Have you seen a physio also?

I'm sure you probably have already. It's just that they can sometimes assist in giving you the right exercises that can help and advise on posture, whereas a consultant will be more interested in what can be done medically (surgery etc).

One thing I hear a lot, and have found works a bit myself is that a key thing they look to do is essentially stretch the spine, especially if you have dodgy discs.

Busting up mine, the back can ache in all kinds of ways on and off, but one thing that actually works for it is riding the bike. The physio has me doing curved back stretching exercises and the riding position kind of does the same. However it can ache a bit after the ride, but the more often I get out and ride the better it is.

*But* my case is with an injury that's healing, which is somewhat different to your situation I suspect.

But I definitely should add that I'm not a doctor or physio and don't accept anything I say as medical advice!, talk to a professional

Other possibility perhaps is to sort out the riding technique so that those drops are smooth and the impact on the back is minimal. How, I don't know as I'm not skilled in that myself. A skills course perhaps?

And yeah, full sus. HT at CYB seems like literally hard work and back breaking

I am lucky in that I work in a private hospital, so have access to a good physio and I have been operated on by a consultant who also practices at the hospital, so can see him if I need to. I have also had several MRI scans that confirm the premature ageing/drying of the disks

My back problem was one of the main reasons I took up cycling in the first place, as my physio said it would improve the core muscles and possibly ease the problem. This has worked to an extent, with riding around my local trails, but it's when I ride the harder surfaces of trail centres that the problems start. Thankfully I'm too much of a pussy and not fit enough to do the harder routes, as if I were to try the harder stuff, my back really would be ruined To be honest, I try not to think about it too much, as it would just p!ss me off and get me down. I love the atmosphere at CYB though, so find it hard to keep away

Anonymous

Maybe your physio didn't mean mountain biking. Cycling is not the same thing.
I'm concerned that the stuff on minotaur are causing you grief since they really are very very small obstacles indeed. If something that small is enough to cause severe pain, then something seriously ain't right.

Darra8

Hi Yee, I agree, she probably didn't mean mountain biking! But the sort of riding I do compared with you sort of riding you do will be very different

It's not severe pain, more discomfort, and at the moment I can put up with it. I think ultimately I will just have to stick to blue routes and where ever possible roll the rest. I did the cyflym coch route back in February, and although I was knackered at the end of it, my back was OK that particular time, so I guess I will just have to be careful...

nozzac

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Maybe your physio didn't mean mountain biking. Cycling is not the same thing.
I'm concerned that the stuff on minotaur are causing you grief since they really are very very small obstacles indeed. If something that small is enough to cause severe pain, then something seriously ain't right.

That something might be the prematurely aged disks he has.

Your disks are a major part of the shock absorbing system for the spine and if they are damaged then impacts travelling up the spine are likely to cause pain where in a normal back they wouldn't.

Maybe few inches of suspension between the rear wheel and spine would help take up some of that lost function.

Funnily enough I have an MRI this morning to look my disk health. I don't think it's gonna be good news.

Darra8

NozzaC wrote:

Funnily enough I have an MRI this morning to look my disk health. I don't think it's gonna be good news.

Good luck with that