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F1 - Monaco

DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
edited May 2011 in Commuting chat
Qualifying:

In the middle of the qualifying session I was originally going to post that of all the tracks watching Monaco was the one that scares me the most. Unfortunately...

Terrible crash. I hope he is alright, a little eerie in that I was just reading the Senna thread yesterday.

Two things:

1.
Given the tyres degrade and dirty the track with marbles, not saying that was the course - it's too early to say, safety concerns around the tyres at that speed was always on my mind. I have, for a while, been wondering if the tyres and the Monaco track (seperately from each other) was too much a sacrifice of safety for excitement.

2. On a lighter note.
Michael Schumacher is far too slow, its becoming embarrassing.
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  • meanredspidermeanredspider Posts: 12,337
    seems he ok - frightening though
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  • greg66_tri_v2.0greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    edited May 2011
    Schumey would be better off doing Dad's Cabs runs on Saturday night.

    The tyres shed marbles, but the marbles generally stay off the racing line (think of all the censored that accumulates in bike lanes, while the road is relatively clean). The track, as with all tracks, get a lot of use over the race weekend - far more than is televised. The use lifts dust and puts down rubber, so more use makes the track cleaner and stickier.

    The issue exiting the tunnel looks (to me) to be more to do with the way the road has been laid. The cars are bouncing around a lot as they exit the tunnel, and all the time they are bouncing up, they lose grip.

    EDIT: Brundle's comment during the original commentary was right: Perez was miles off the racing line. He was way over to the left of the track when he came over what looks like a slight ridge. THe racign line is on the right. So he may have been on a dirty piece of track. The problem he faced was having to get himself over the left in tie for the chicane - he overcooked that move around the ridge, lost the back end and slammed the armco. From then on, it's all luck as to whether he goes left, right or into the padding.

    Perez seems to be OK though.

    Reckon someone else will crack into the armco exiting the tunnel during the race.
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  • suzybsuzyb Posts: 3,449
    And now they are putting the barrier back together with a truck :shock: Just shows F1 is still a dangerous sport.
  • EKE_38BPMEKE_38BPM Posts: 5,821
    suzyb wrote:
    And now they are putting the barrier back together with a truck :shock: Just shows F1 is still a dangerous sport.

    And it says so on the ticket.
    The speeds they do with the barriers so close mean that any accident is almost certainly going to be a big on.

    As Nikki Lauda said "Driving a Formula One car around Monaco is like riding a bike around your living room, you can do it, but its bloody hard work"
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  • nationnation Posts: 609
    suzyb wrote:
    And now they are putting the barrier back together with a truck :shock: Just shows F1 is still a dangerous sport.

    Well, the barrier there is just giant blocks of rubbery foam. Like the commentators said, it's probably just that shifting them with the truck is easier than lifting them and quicker than getting a forklift.
  • Paul EPaul E Posts: 2,052
    That spot as always been a hot spot for people losing the back end of the car over the bumps there. The tyres yes are shedding marbles a lot this year but that's how it used to be years ago before bridgestone started making tyres that lasted the whole race and some say made it boring as a result.

    If it was completely safe a lot of the drivers would not drive, it's that bit of adanger that gives them the thrill to drive, I am not saying make it like it was in the 60's 70's 80's and half of the 90's with driver surounded by the fuel tanks, drivers feet in front of the front axle, no wheel tethers to stop them flying into the crowd and all the other things that people wince at now. But they still need that little bit of danger to get the adrenaline going.

    The fact they are moving them back into place means that they have absorbed a lot of energy by moving back, exactly what they are supposed to do, rather than the old tyre barriers which just shot the car back onto the track like a bumper on a pinball machine.
  • redveeredvee Posts: 11,921
    Perez has been given the OK by the medics but not allowed to race tomorrow much to his disappointment. Hamilton is now styarting 9th after cutting the chicane on his hot lap.
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  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 49,387
    Lucky boy, that was quite a heavy prang.

    I've driven on race tracks (purely for fun) in my petrol head days and generally the marbles and censored get shoved off the racing line. So as long as you keep on the 'clean' bit, it's generally OK. But if you do put your wheel on the censored , the loss of grip is noticeable - as I found out to my cost once :oops:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • welkmanwelkman Posts: 396
    I cant help thinking that the cars should be designed to deal with slightly 'lumpy' tracks. Every race seems to bring calls from the drivers to retarmac or re route parts of the race track. Maybe it would be better if the cars more able to deal with a rough surface?
  • optimisticbikeroptimisticbiker Posts: 1,657
    welkman wrote:
    I cant help thinking that the cars should be designed to deal with slightly 'lumpy' tracks. Every race seems to bring calls from the drivers to retarmac or re route parts of the race track. Maybe it would be better if the cars more able to deal with a rough surface?
    It wasnt just the rough surface that caught him and Rosberg (earlier) out, it was the brow of the ridge just past the exit to the tunnel... if the ride height is set too low and the car (barge board) bottoms at that point the load is taken off the rears wheels and loss of grip results.. at that speed there is little the driver can do until the downforce reconnects wheels and road...by which time you're already on a path to nowhere.. both Rosberg and Perez were very lucky... Rosberg more so because his would have been a front on impact...
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  • optimisticbikeroptimisticbiker Posts: 1,657
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Lucky boy, that was quite a heavy prang.

    I've driven on race tracks (purely for fun) in my petrol head days and generally the marbles and censored get shoved off the racing line. So as long as you keep on the 'clean' bit, it's generally OK. But if you do put your wheel on the censored , the loss of grip is noticeable - as I found out to my cost once :oops:
    Yes, a few years ago, on a track day, I nearly had a close encounter with the armco at Castle Coomb when on the crappy side of the track due a completely wrong line and then lost it on the brow of the hill going into Quarry, got it all sideways and was lucky I wasnt going flat out so managed to catch it and stopped an inch from the wall.. A few weeks before a mate didnt get so lucky and did over £10k worth of damage to his car (and had to pay £1500 for the armco too)
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  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 49,387
    edited May 2011
    ]Yes, a few years ago, on a track day, I nearly had a close encounter with the armco at Castle Coomb when on the crappy side of the track due a completely wrong line and then lost it on the brow of the hill going into Quarry, got it all sideways and was lucky I wasnt going flat out so managed to catch it and stopped an inch from the wall.. A few weeks before a mate didnt get so lucky and did over £10k worth of damage to his car (and had to pay £1500 for the armco too)
    That's a fast part of the circuit and a bit hairy as the car 'unweights' a bit over that brow - IIRC you'd be doing well over a ton in a decently fast car there so you had a lucky escape :shock:

    Did my damage exiting Clarke Curve at Brands so not as fast. Went round the outside of a dithering Elise, got 2 wheels on the marbles and then headed over the kitty litter into the barriers. Think the tyre wall stopped me getting an armco bill as the car hit it fairly hard. The car was a Cat D write off - but luckily I had track day insurance so got a full pay out. 4 point harnesses helped cushion the blow a bit !
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • optimisticbikeroptimisticbiker Posts: 1,657
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    That's a fast part of the circuit and a bit hairy as the car 'unweights' a bit over that brow - IIRC you'd be doing well over a ton in a decently fast car there so you had a lucky escape :shock:
    Exactly so (was about 110mph IIRC, I have it on video somewhere)... its that long gap between no grip, the 'oh sh*t feeling' and waiting for some control to come back to you while hoping you don't hit anything in the meantime - so I have some inkling of how those guys were feeling....
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    The car was a Cat D write off - but luckily I had track day insurance so go a full pay out. 4 point harnesses helped cushion the blow a bit !
    Ouch :shock: Never bothered with track-day insurance, it always seemed very expensive (though after the £150 entry fee, the £1000 for a new set of tyres/brakes afterwards and the £300 worth of petrol burnt I suppose it was all relative!).

    Right, its time to get a cuppa and settle down in front of the big screen for todays action :)
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  • redveeredvee Posts: 11,921
    EJ has been arrested by the fashion police for his choice of shirt according to Twitter :lol:
    I've added a signature to prove it is still possible.
  • EKE_38BPMEKE_38BPM Posts: 5,821
    Seems like the BBC F1 presenters love their supertight trousers/jeans.

    I wonder if the same applies to Lee McKenzie. Lets hope so, and if so, where are the pictures?
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  • suzybsuzyb Posts: 3,449
    awww I was looking forward to some chaotic overtake attempts in the final laps as Vettel's tyres disintegrated and then the red flag :(
  • EKE_38BPMEKE_38BPM Posts: 5,821
    Yeah, that was a real pity. No real point to the restart. Even Webber said so and he made up a place!
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  • DaltonDalton Posts: 265
    Really gutted!

    Have to say - Vettel is a lucky boy. Incidents mean't he got pole and a victory that I am not sure he would have if both Quali and the Race had been incident free towards the end.

    Was relishing the last few laps with Button on fresh tyres and Alonso and Vettel on old. How the hell did Vettel's tyres last that long anyway? What happened to tyre degradation?

    :(
  • nichnich Posts: 888
    EKE_38BPM wrote:
    Seems like the BBC F1 presenters love their supertight trousers/jeans.

    I wonder if the same applies to Lee McKenzie. Lets hope so, and if so, where are the pictures?

    Did you watch the red-button after? You got to see DC being thrown into RedBull's pool, while wearing his tight white jeans :D

    Oh, then there's Hamilton's rant

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula ... 588664.stm
  • nichnich Posts: 888
    EKE_38BPM wrote:
    Seems like the BBC F1 presenters love their supertight trousers/jeans.

    I wonder if the same applies to Lee McKenzie. Lets hope so, and if so, where are the pictures?

    Did you watch the red-button after? You got to see DC being thrown into RedBull's pool, while wearing his tight white jeans :D

    Oh, then there's Hamilton's rant

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula ... 588664.stm
  • suzybsuzyb Posts: 3,449
    nich wrote:
    EKE_38BPM wrote:
    Seems like the BBC F1 presenters love their supertight trousers/jeans.

    I wonder if the same applies to Lee McKenzie. Lets hope so, and if so, where are the pictures?

    Did you watch the red-button after? You got to see DC being thrown into RedBull's pool, while wearing his tight white jeans :D

    Oh, then there's Hamilton's rant

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula ... 588664.stm
    Yeah after EJ got thrown in and lost his glasses :lol:
  • DufferDuffer Posts: 379
    Lewis Hamilton was frustrated from the start, and made some pretty dangerous moves. First he crashed into Massa, then two corners later forced him into an accident through the tunnel. Then after the restart, he forced Maldanardo (sp?) into the barrier at turn one. I felt really sorry for Maldanardo afterwards... Williams could really have done with those points.

    On another note, excellent race for Kobiashi in the Sauber. It's a shame his team-mate couldn't make the start, but hopefully he'll be alright to race in Canada.

    Vetel won, but on sheer luck alone. His team made the wrong tactical decisions, and made a hash of the pit stops, yet he still managed to nurse it home... That boy is something special.
  • greg66_tri_v2.0greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    I dunno - I reckon Vettel would have held on even without the late safety car. Short of running his Tyres down to the canvass, he could and would have made his car a very wide roadblock for the remaining laps. It's a very narrow track, and even on degraded Tyres he had good traction out of the corners ...

    As for Hamilton, he certainly had his angry eyes in. I think his move on Massa at the hairpin was rash, but I don't see how it could have been his fault that Massa stacked it exiting the tunnel. Hamilton was behind going into the right hander before the tunnel, but on the racing line in the tunnel. He must have undercut Massa on the entrance to the tunnel. Massa then had to decide whether to hold position on the marbles through the tunnel or tuck in behind. I think he chose ... poorly.
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  • atticaattica Posts: 2,362
    Got to agree with G66, Massa must've made a real hash of getting out of the corner before the tunnel and should have backed off once he realised his position although I have to say it'd be nice if marbles weren't an issue off the racing line.

    Going slightly OT. Anybody remember a race where Schumacher went offline for three or four laps in order to clean the track ready for a pass on someone who was slowing him up? Genius, but you never see that sort of lateral thinking these days.
    "Impressive break"

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  • greg66_tri_v2.0greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    Attica wrote:
    Got to agree with G66, Massa must've made a real hash of getting out of the corner before the tunnel and should have backed off once he realised his position although I have to say it'd be nice if marbles weren't an issue off the racing line.

    Going slightly OT. Anybody remember a race where Schumacher went offline for three or four laps in order to clean the track ready for a pass on someone who was slowing him up? Genius, but you never see that sort of lateral thinking these days.

    Yes. Either Portugal or Spain, overtaking Hill, 95, I'd guess. Back when he had Ross Brawn calling the shots (though IIRC Brawn credited that move to Schuey 100%).

    Now Suzuka 1994. *That* was a race.
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  • atticaattica Posts: 2,362
    Spain 94 is one that sticks in my mind, the emotional first win post Senna for Williams and Schumacher driving a fixed gear Benneton for most of the race.

    Talking of memorable races, did anyone else get annoyed by Brundle's faulty memory of the 92 Monaco GP, swapping Senna and Mansell in his memory a couple of times despite Coulthard correcting him. Is he another Muddy Talker in the making?
    "Impressive break"

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  • greg66_tri_v2.0greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    Yes, Spain was when MS was stuck in fifth. Of all the tracks to get stuck in fifth, that was a good one. I would have liked to have seen what he could do stuck in fifth at Monaco. Still, I am very happy to watch him tarnish his rep with every race.

    I'll forgive Brundle-fly a lot for having rid us of the appalling Jonathan Legard. Bundle could start commentating on synchronised swimming for all I care...
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  • DufferDuffer Posts: 379
    Greg66 wrote:
    I'll forgive Brundle-fly a lot for having rid us of the appalling Jonathan Legard. Bundle could start commentating on synchronised swimming for all I care...

    I think Martin Brundle is quite a good commentator, really. Obviously, there'll never be another Murray Walker, but he makes a decent job of it - although he does sometimes get his facts backwards. He must have told us about a dozen times that Jenson pitted in response to the safty car, even though he was in the pits before the incident...

    David Coulthard brings a lot of experience to the commentary box, but i don't think he's cut out for the mic. Perhaps he should be in the background, as an advisor.
  • DaltonDalton Posts: 265
    Duffer wrote:
    Greg66 wrote:
    I'll forgive Brundle-fly a lot for having rid us of the appalling Jonathan Legard. Bundle could start commentating on synchronised swimming for all I care...

    I think Martin Brundle is quite a good commentator, really. Obviously, there'll never be another Murray Walker, but he makes a decent job of it - although he does sometimes get his facts backwards. He must have told us about a dozen times that Jenson pitted in response to the safty car, even though he was in the pits before the incident...

    David Coulthard brings a lot of experience to the commentary box, but i don't think he's cut out for the mic. Perhaps he should be in the background, as an advisor.

    I disagree - I think DC is a vast improvement on the pratt that used to sit alongside Martin. (His name escapes me).

    I think with the exception of the intolerable Eddie Jordan - BBC have a great team fronting Formula 1.

    I really enjoy the hour before the race, Jake and DC are very watchable and I particularly like all the technical stuff they expose. For example the Red Bull simulator was awesome this week. Also got to love Martin's grid walks. He gives as good as he gets - should anyone try and get in his way.
    :D
  • EKE_38BPMEKE_38BPM Posts: 5,821
    Brundle and Coulthard commentating really work well for me.
    Jake and Coulthard presenting before the race is generally good.
    Brundle's grid walk is brilliant. Love his pointy elbows.

    Ted and Lee in the pits do a good job. Lee's leading questions to Lewis were brilliant at milking Lewis' anger: "Is it coz I is black?"

    Eddie is a waste of air time.
    Dear Auntie Beeb, please get rid of Eddie, no-one likes him.
    Jonathon Legard had the presenting job for too long, send Eddie to the same retirement community that Jonathon Legard and Muddy Talker have been banished to.

    Jake is a lucky boy. From CBBC to F1 and all of the other stuff he does for the BBC in less than seven years. I don't think he is an outstanding presenter yet, just a competent professional, but he's still young and I see him going on to having a long and distinguished career with the BBC.

    Has anyone else noticed the BBC - Red Bull love in? Red Bull must love all of the coverage they get from the BBC and the BBC must love the access they have been given. I guess with having an ex-Red Bull driver in the commentating team, this is to be expected.
    Can't really complain, the BBC were the same with Mclaren a few years ago.


    Getting all nostalgic, I really want to see Williams back on the podium and Mclaren challenging for the Constructors title. I am a self confessed Mclaren fanboy. Did you know they make everything from hi-fi components to armoured vehicle seats?.
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