10 mile time trial average heart rates?

ozzy1000

hi all,
I've just done my first 10mile TT in about 14 years! whoopie!, I really enjoyed it and managed 28.13 on a hilly and windy course... I've only been back on a bike for about 5 weeks and training like a mad thing for a century at the end of june. I'm 34 and the highest heart rate i've ever seen on my monitor is 193bpm, yet for the time trial my heart rate averaged 182bpm (for 30 odd minutes!!) including me standing still for a minute at the begining and forgetting to turn my garmin off at the end for a couple of minutes...

that seems pretty high... i really couldn't have tried any harder... but does that seem high to anyone else? how does that compare to other peoples average heart rates for these kinds of efforts?? maybe i just have a high pain threashold..? garmin below;

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/88016171

Eyon

If you go by the general consensus, you're knocking on your max heart rate for the majority of that ride and 193 is way above, technically unless you are super mega pro fit I cant see it happening.

I've hit my quoted max HR and even for a short time it killed me through and through, total lung agony! I wouldnt say its possibly to do that for any length of time far less for a total TT

I do find that HRMs are massively inaccurate until you get a bit of a sweat on, which if like me that takes a good 5-6 miles it can throw an average way out, especially only over a 30 min ride

doyler78

I'd say your heart rate monitor was functioning properly as the upward sloping nature of graph is consistent with a properly paced time trial effort (perhaps a bit steeper would be expected at least would be for me).

As Eyon says I doubt very much that your max 193bpm as the chances of you hitting it during a 10 mile time trial would be unlikely.

Why do you want to know your max? If it is for zone setting then I wouldn't bother as you have all the info that you need in order to set zones already ie a good estimate of your Lactate Threshold Heart Rate which is about .95 of your average 10 mile tt effort.

Have a read of this for setting your zones based of LT

http://www.electricblues.com/html/JoeFr ... kGuide.pdf

I'd ignore zones 5a, b & c as it is not possible to effectively pace such efforts with heart rate and you will have to go off feel. Zones 1 to 4 will be fine using heart rate however you should be aware of the limitations of heart rate training not so that you can abandon it but so that you can be informed about how to use it appropriately.

ozzy1000

Eyon wrote:

If you go by the general consensus, you're knocking on your max heart rate for the majority of that ride and 193 is way above, technically unless you are super mega pro fit I cant see it happening.

I've hit my quoted max HR and even for a short time it killed me through and through, total lung agony! I wouldnt say its possibly to do that for any length of time far less for a total TT

I do find that HRMs are massively inaccurate until you get a bit of a sweat on, which if like me that takes a good 5-6 miles it can throw an average way out, especially only over a 30 min ride

I rode 15miles to get to the TT so i was warmed up and there was sweat on the monitor... so when you say its not possible are you saying that my max heart rate is much higher than i think?? or that i'm a big fat fibber?? i often see heart rates around 180-188, and on a few aoocassions 192-193.. but no more than that..

ut_och_cykla

My understaning of things is that you have a max at or above 193 and you rode at about 94% of this for 30 mins. I've done similar percentages in good TTs and I guess if your max is nearer 200 (also possible - the 220 -age calculation is not very reliable) those figures sound about right to me.
But its all very personal and can change from ride to ride. next time you might have a lower average pulse and or a better time.

StanwaySteve62

Check this out, felt fine but is very high
Ps I'm 48 and 17stone and always feel pretty good, rode over 2500 miles over the last twelve months so not new to cycling hard
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/87225600

amaferanga

Given that your HR was ~190 bpm for the best part of 15 minutes, I'd say there's not a chance in hell that your max HR is only 193.

amaferanga

StanwaySteve62 wrote:

Check this out, felt fine but is very high
Ps I'm 48 and 17stone and always feel pretty good, rode over 2500 miles over the last twelve months so not new to cycling hard
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/87225600

That looks odd - are you sure you're not getting artefacts due to static? Usually worse when its windy.

I'm surprised that your HR apparently increases from around 110 bpm to 190 bpm in less than a minute.

SBezza

Looks fine to me, HR is so individual I wouldn't worry about it. All you can say is that your HRMax is 193bpm or higher.

ozzy1000_0

amaferanga wrote:

Given that your HR was ~190 bpm for the best part of 15 minutes, I'd say there's not a chance in hell that your max HR is only 193.

I'm not averse to a bit "GRRRR" or pain... I've done about 700km since buying my heart rate monitor all of it training quite hard and never seen anyhting over 193bpm... its wierd; if i do zone 5 intervals on a turbo trainer I struggle to sustain anything around 180bpm for more than about three minutes, but on the road it feels alot more managable I guess the cooling effect of wind and also the idea that I don't want anyone else to overtake me I've noticed that I start swearing to myself/the wind/ the hills/ my bike etc when my heart rate is 180+bpm for 30seconds+... its quite wierd the percieved effort thing, as soon as i go "urrggghh f**k" i can guarrentee if i look down my heart rate is over 180bpm...

markos1963

Eyon wrote:

If you go by the general consensus, you're knocking on your max heart rate for the majority of that ride and 193 is way above, technically unless you are super mega pro fit I cant see it happening.

From what my coach has told me a high max HR isn't necessarly a measure of fitness. As you get fitter your heart gets more effecient at pumping and the max HR should come down. He has advised me to do a max HR test about 3 times a season to see where I am.

hopper1

markos1963 wrote:

Eyon wrote:

If you go by the general consensus, you're knocking on your max heart rate for the majority of that ride and 193 is way above, technically unless you are super mega pro fit I cant see it happening.

From what my coach has told me a high max HR isn't necessarly a measure of fitness. As you get fitter your heart gets more effecient at pumping and the max HR should come down. He has advised me to do a max HR test about 3 times a season to see where I am.

Feck that!... Too painful

doyler78

It's not just too painful it's just plain silly as a meaningful way of determining rider fitness. Woah. I'd be asking him/her some serious questions if that's the sort of thing they see as useful. Astounded.

markos1963

doyler78 wrote:

It's not just too painful it's just plain silly as a meaningful way of determining rider fitness. Woah. I'd be asking him/her some serious questions if that's the sort of thing they see as useful. Astounded.

Why? If you are training and need to stay within strict HR zones surely it would make sense to keep a tab on where you are.
Incidently he said I could do it three times a season but it wasn't essential.

doyler78

Simply because Heart Rate Zones are not as fixed as you believe they are. They are guidelines to help you train specific parts of your physiology. Then you have to realise that when you train in a particular zone (even if done with a precision tool like a power meter) the physiological changes that you are trying to drive will also incorporate changes more associated with other training zones and that's because there is a degree of overlap between zones and across mulitiple zones.

So whilst sticking to your zone is helpful from a point of view consistency and helps to put you the right ballpark to drives the changes desired it does not follow that if you varied your zone by a few beats that training in the new zones would yield markedly different results.

You are applying to much prescription to something which is very much more elastic.

What do you believe is the degree to which your maxHR might be changeable through exercise and how many beats do you think that breaks down when you apply them to zones? Do you believe that everyone who trains very hard will see changes in their maxHR? I haven't seen evidence of that. I have seen references to some people seeing lower maxHR through exercise however it seems far from the norm and for that reason alone as a means of assessing a riders fitness I think it is hugely flawed. That's why I was astounded. If it was even useful as a workout then I could just about see past it but it's not that great. Too short to be useful for much and too hard to not affect subsequent training. I just find it very odd.

Surely your results are the best affirmation that your training is working!

Anonymous

I can't see much use in a max HR test :?

Lactate or threshold, yes.

andyrr

With training your max HR doesn't really change, your power at a given HR, or your HR at a given power will be lower.
the 220-age max HR is a very rough guide and mine is off a bit, I've seen over 190 and I'm now over 40 years old, latest 10 TT I did saw HR hovering around 170bpm. In road races in the past I've seen it hitting 20bpm over that on occasions.

DaveL

andyrr wrote:

With training your max HR doesn't really change, your power at a given HR, or your HR at a given power will be lower.

I agree with the above, and from what I have read, your MHR does not change, as it is basically the maximum your heart can pump. I believe resting HR can be a measure of fitness over time (getting lower), and can see the logic behind it. Why would getting fitter bring your max HR down?

I have done a MHR test once, on a big hill, I have no wish to EVER do it again, never mind 3 times a year.

Dave

jibberjim

It depends what you mean by MaxHR - functional max HR's which are the maximum HR you can actually obtain doing a particular activity can change with changes in fitness. And given that's all you can actually measure and see, then max HR does change.

Getting fitter often brings your max HR down - because as you become more aerobically fit, other limiters on performance come in before you can obtain max HR.

DaveL

jibberjim wrote:

Getting fitter often brings your max HR down - because as you become more aerobically fit.

If you took the word 'max' out of the above statement, I would completely agree.

Sorry but MHR means one thing and one thing only, and that is that maximum your heart can beat. Getting fitter will have no effect on this.

jibberjim

DaveL wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

Getting fitter often brings your max HR down - because as you become more aerobically fit.

If you took the word 'max' out of the above statement, I would completely agree.

Sorry but MHR means one thing and one thing only, and that is that maximum your heart can beat. Getting fitter will have no effect on this.

By your definition you can never know your Max HR, there's simply no way to find out what it is, so it's completely pointless thing. Because of that no-one ever uses your definition.

DaveL

It isn't my definition, but I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Dave

doyler78

DaveL wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

Getting fitter often brings your max HR down - because as you become more aerobically fit.

If you took the word 'max' out of the above statement, I would completely agree.

Sorry but MHR means one thing and one thing only, and that is that maximum your heart can beat. Getting fitter will have no effect on this.

For the purposes of cycling, or any other sport, the maximum that your heart can beat is irrelevant as performance within a particular sport is limited by what you can achieve in that sport and if you can't achieve some max that you have found somewhere else then it's pretty useless for training purposes that's why maxHR is said to be sport specific. Don't forget we are talking in this thread about using maxHR to set training zones or track changes in fitness so within that context then what max you can achieve in that sport is simply that your max. If the purposes of training zones is to guide your training then the final zone would be pretty silly looking if it contained a value with a upper limit above what you can achieve and I have never yet seen any zones setup like this and for very good reasons.

Alex_Simmons/RST

jibberjim wrote:

DaveL wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

Getting fitter often brings your max HR down - because as you become more aerobically fit.

If you took the word 'max' out of the above statement, I would completely agree.

Sorry but MHR means one thing and one thing only, and that is that maximum your heart can beat. Getting fitter will have no effect on this.

By your definition you can never know your Max HR, there's simply no way to find out what it is, so it's completely pointless thing. Because of that no-one ever uses your definition.

Why not?

Ride hard enough (like sprint the final 100m of a hill climb ridden hard for 5+ minutes after a good warm up) and you'll find the maximum rate your heart beats. Pretty simple if you ask me.

If you find other circumstances where HR is shown to be repeatably higher (e.g. in racing/finishing a long sprint) then simply reset the number.

Being out by a couple of beats isn't going to massively change training levels in any case (since they should be ranges) and there's a fair variation in daily HR response anyway.

jibberjim

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Ride hard enough (like sprint the final 100m of a hill climb ridden hard for 5+ minutes after a good warm up) and you'll find the maximum rate your heart beats. Pretty simple if you ask me.

No you won't - you'll find your maximum rate your heart will beat in cycling - it's quite likely that in another situation (such as a max effort in a different sport) it will beat faster. Your test there will only ever find the maximum HR cycling can elicit.

Alex_Simmons/RST

jibberjim wrote:

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Ride hard enough (like sprint the final 100m of a hill climb ridden hard for 5+ minutes after a good warm up) and you'll find the maximum rate your heart beats. Pretty simple if you ask me.

No you won't - you'll find your maximum rate your heart will beat in cycling - it's quite likely that in another situation (such as a max effort in a different sport) it will beat faster. Your test there will only ever find the maximum HR cycling can elicit.

We are on a cycling training forum, so max HR when cycling is applicable.

Honestly though, HR response is so variable day to day and depending on circumstances anyway, (e.g. racing vs training) it's really a moot point.

Garz

DaveL wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

Getting fitter often brings your max HR down - because as you become more aerobically fit.

If you took the word 'max' out of the above statement, I would completely agree.

Sorry but MHR means one thing and one thing only, and that is that maximum your heart can beat. Getting fitter will have no effect on this.

Yes Dave, but also to add to this - Finding accurately your real maximum means you can set the zones properly. The OP has seen his highest at being 193 so if that was accurately measured and not a freak spike reading his real max would be just above this.

Garz

jibberjim wrote:

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Ride hard enough (like sprint the final 100m of a hill climb ridden hard for 5+ minutes after a good warm up) and you'll find the maximum rate your heart beats. Pretty simple if you ask me.

No you won't - you'll find your maximum rate your heart will beat in cycling - it's quite likely that in another situation (such as a max effort in a different sport) it will beat faster. Your test there will only ever find the maximum HR cycling can elicit.

As Alex has pointed out.. we on on a cycling forum and discussing a cycling based post jim. You are right about other sports stressing the body differently but lets not throw in curve balls just to trip people up. :roll:

jibberjim

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

We are on a cycling training forum, so max HR when cycling is applicable.

Then the max HR you can get from cycling will change with fitness changes, as you yourself noted to. It is not fixed.

ut_och_cykla

My understanding of MAX HR is that it gets lower with age - about 1 beat per year, though people training hard may not experience this. Training does not affect max HR but does affect how close you can exercise to it and for how long.

Anonymous

I thought max HR was not best ever for setting training zones anyhoo?