Pulled over by the police for obstructing traffic this AM

EKE_38BPM

al2098 wrote:

"How ridiculous"
And? anything constructive to add?
Bails87 are you saying you disagree?
Do you really think the police are going to take such a complaint in any way serious?
"How ridiculous..? Add something remotely intelligent to your comment.

B87's comments were way more intelligent than AL2098's, thats for sure!

dcurzon

I think he realised he was not on the firmest argument because his 4x4 had at least two people in it but we had our conversation behind the truck out of their sight and earshot.

out of his colleagues sight and earshot?

Shoulda smashed him in

bails87

al2098 wrote:

"How ridiculous"
And? anything constructive to add?
Bails87 are you saying you disagree?
Do you really think the police are going to take such a complaint in any way serious?
"How ridiculous..? Add something remotely intelligent to your comment.

Something intelligent like

al2098 wrote:

a bunch of police hating lefties

;
or

al2098 wrote:

Your DEAD.

I have never really had any dealings with the police, but know a number of officers and they all seem like decent people, and I'm generally glad they're there, doing what they do. But in this instance the officer gave incorrect advice, and when the OP asked for help with something else, the officer refused to do anything. If, as the OP says, traffic was still going round him, then the officer had no reason to pull him over.

I wouldn't necessarily complain, (despite the fact an officer is probably lying to the public, refusing to help with a report of careless driving and giving 'orders' that are putting the OP in more danger) but I would certainly ignore him.

In summary, 'al', you are a pleb.

OP, I hope you told your colleagues something more interesting, that you might be the beer baron...for example

northstar

It sounds like that officer likes being able to tell people when he thinks he is right but shirks his responsibility as a actual officer of the law - I'd ride where i feel is safest - if that was to stop dangerous overtakes then so be it).

EKE_38BPM

northstar wrote:

It sounds like that officer likes being able to tell people when he thinks he is right but shirks his responsibility as a actual officer of the law - I'd ride where i feel is safest - if that was to stop dangerous overtakes then so be it).

+1

CyclingBantam

Nothing much to add to earlier other than Al has outed himself as a fool.

I have no doubt he will disagree and be unable to see anything foolish in his comments but there lies the issue.

To try and add to how others have tried to help you out Al, If you ride in the gutter to be 'safe' and keep out of they way of cars, that will encourage cars not to pull out to pass us. Then, when you get a close pass, you have nowhere to go because you are already in the ditch being 'safe'.

Depressing this has had to be explained to you but hopefully it may give you something to think about, although, I guess you know it all already.

t4tomo

I might be wrong but ......

I reckon "al2098" is a copper, and not a particularly bright one at that, which is why he's gone off the deep end on reading a thread criticising the police.

Pince point are tricky because if you wait until close to the pinch point to "take the lane" you find you sometimes can't due to a stream of faster moving vehicles overtaking you, none of whom ar prepared to yield to let you rightfully pas through the pinch.

just before I trun into my road on my comute home we have traffic calming that alternates through 3 pinch points, but has cycle lane either side by-passing to the left of the pinches. The last one is priority my way, but I have to turn right straight after it. Sometime its real tough getting to the crown of the road as vehicle will ignore you signalling right and steam on past you. Occasionally have to wait in cycle lane (potential to obstruct other bikes) before I can get across.

Again a badly thought out bit of traffic calming.

meanredspider

My complete support for the police rarely survives contact with them. The last time I spoke to a police inspector he said, if I felt threatened on my bike, I should stop riding.

I have no left-leanings. al2098 is talking nonsense

El Gordo

CyclingBantam wrote:

To try and add to how others have tried to help you out Al, If you ride in the gutter to be 'safe' and keep out of they way of cars, that will encourage cars not to pull out to pass us. Then, when you get a close pass, you have nowhere to go because you are already in the ditch being 'safe'.

I wouldn't sugest anone rides 'in the gutter' but in the OP's case I don't think it would be so unreasonable to cross the white line to let the cars past.

If you were a farmer in a tractor the decent thing to do when the traffic is stacked up behind is to pull over and let them past. It's the same if you're on a horse. We've all got our right to be on the road but that doesn't prevent a bit of courtesy.

I have a feeling that the majority of drivers held up behind a cyclist in this sort of situation don't eventually drive away thinking "oh yes, I must give them more room in the future". More likely they drive off thinking "arrogant pri#k, shouldn't be allowed on the road".

Origamist

El Gordo wrote:

CyclingBantam wrote:

To try and add to how others have tried to help you out Al, If you ride in the gutter to be 'safe' and keep out of they way of cars, that will encourage cars not to pull out to pass us. Then, when you get a close pass, you have nowhere to go because you are already in the ditch being 'safe'.

I wouldn't sugest anone rides 'in the gutter' but in the OP's case I don't think it would be so unreasonable to cross the white line to let the cars past.

If you were a farmer in a tractor the decent thing to do when the traffic is stacked up behind is to pull over and let them past. It's the same if you're on a horse. We've all got our right to be on the road but that doesn't prevent a bit of courtesy.
.

That's what the OP said he did! He defers to motorists when the road widens. When it narrows he takes a more prominent position to try to prevent close overtakes. Seems reasonable to me.

bails87

El Gordo wrote:

CyclingBantam wrote:

To try and add to how others have tried to help you out Al, If you ride in the gutter to be 'safe' and keep out of they way of cars, that will encourage cars not to pull out to pass us. Then, when you get a close pass, you have nowhere to go because you are already in the ditch being 'safe'.

I wouldn't sugest anone rides 'in the gutter' but in the OP's case I don't think it would be so unreasonable to cross the white line to let the cars past.

If you were a farmer in a tractor the decent thing to do when the traffic is stacked up behind is to pull over and let them past. It's the same if you're on a horse. We've all got our right to be on the road but that doesn't prevent a bit of courtesy.

I have a feeling that the majority of drivers held up behind a cyclist in this sort of situation don't eventually drive away thinking "oh yes, I must give them more room in the future". More likely they drive off thinking "arrogant pri#k, shouldn't be allowed on the road".

paulintheforest wrote:

The frustrating thing is that the traffic was flowing past me and carrying on up the road, so it wasn't as if I was blocking the road,

alfablue

El Gordo wrote:

CyclingBantam wrote:

To try and add to how others have tried to help you out Al, If you ride in the gutter to be 'safe' and keep out of they way of cars, that will encourage cars not to pull out to pass us. Then, when you get a close pass, you have nowhere to go because you are already in the ditch being 'safe'.

I wouldn't sugest anone rides 'in the gutter' but in the OP's case I don't think it would be so unreasonable to cross the white line to let the cars past.

If you were a farmer in a tractor the decent thing to do when the traffic is stacked up behind is to pull over and let them past. It's the same if you're on a horse. We've all got our right to be on the road but that doesn't prevent a bit of courtesy.

I have a feeling that the majority of drivers held up behind a cyclist in this sort of situation don't eventually drive away thinking "oh yes, I must give them more room in the future". More likely they drive off thinking "arrogant pri#k, shouldn't be allowed on the road".

The white lines look like they indicate something at the roadside encroaching in to the road, the cyclist should therefore not cross the line, a solid white line does suggest one should not cross it.

Origamist

alfablue wrote:

El Gordo wrote:

CyclingBantam wrote:

To try and add to how others have tried to help you out Al, If you ride in the gutter to be 'safe' and keep out of they way of cars, that will encourage cars not to pull out to pass us. Then, when you get a close pass, you have nowhere to go because you are already in the ditch being 'safe'.

I wouldn't sugest anone rides 'in the gutter' but in the OP's case I don't think it would be so unreasonable to cross the white line to let the cars past.

If you were a farmer in a tractor the decent thing to do when the traffic is stacked up behind is to pull over and let them past. It's the same if you're on a horse. We've all got our right to be on the road but that doesn't prevent a bit of courtesy.

I have a feeling that the majority of drivers held up behind a cyclist in this sort of situation don't eventually drive away thinking "oh yes, I must give them more room in the future". More likely they drive off thinking "arrogant pri#k, shouldn't be allowed on the road".

The white lines look like they indicate something at the roadside encroaching in to the road, the cyclist should therefore not cross the line, a solid white line does suggest one should not cross it.

Drivers and cyclists can legally cross solid edge lines. They are often deployed to slow drivers down and deter overtaking - I'd hazard that this is why they are being used along the road in question. However, this disadvantages cyclists who are then caught between a rock and a hard place as the road widens and narrows.

CyclingBantam

Origamist wrote:

El Gordo wrote:

CyclingBantam wrote:

To try and add to how others have tried to help you out Al, If you ride in the gutter to be 'safe' and keep out of they way of cars, that will encourage cars not to pull out to pass us. Then, when you get a close pass, you have nowhere to go because you are already in the ditch being 'safe'.

I wouldn't sugest anone rides 'in the gutter' but in the OP's case I don't think it would be so unreasonable to cross the white line to let the cars past.

If you were a farmer in a tractor the decent thing to do when the traffic is stacked up behind is to pull over and let them past. It's the same if you're on a horse. We've all got our right to be on the road but that doesn't prevent a bit of courtesy.
.

That's what the OP said he did! He defers to motorists when the road widens. When it narrows he takes a more prominent position to try to prevent close overtakes. Seems reasonable to me.

+1

At no point did I mean to imply he shouldn't allow cars past when reasonable which is what he did. My point is it doesn't help anyone, drivers included when a cyclist tries to let people past when there isn't really space to do it safely.

I am very considerate to drivers and anyone faster than me however in certain circumstances, like described by the OP, it is safer to delay someone be mere seconds than help create a situation where there is a greater risk of an accident for anyone.

It's for the greater good.

As for drivers getting annoyed, 95% are good and can use their brains, the other 5% will hate you if you are out of the way or not. I have never had any issues from drivers when I have taken a lane.

jimmypippa

CyclingBantam wrote:

I agree with most posters on here.

Firstly, if the officer is telling you what he did, I have very little doubt that he does not cycle him self. His claimed speeds alone are ridiculous.

Secondly, you do not have to ride actively trying to get out of peoples way, just in the same way you shouldn't be actively trying to obstruct people.

I find that common sense normally provides what is the correct answer.

The white line signals the edge of the road, therefore, you shouldn't be riding to the left of it. You are allowed to ride oin the road.

Where the lane narrows, if you find cars are squeezing past where it is not safe to either you or them, you should do what is reasonable to make you/them safe and that is to take the lane.

You shouldn't obstruct cars where there is no need. You didn't do that so you have done nothing wrong.

Him telling you that you should get out of their way because they are in a rush is laughable. You should have got him to follow you up to the next junction and complained at the traffic being in your way. Is he going to tell them all to move.

If you can be inclined I would feel free to email/write a letter of complaint. Police shouldn't be advising people absolute rubbish. It helps nobody. What view of cyclists will those drivers have now? They will think 'we shouldn't be on their roads', look, even the police agree with us!!!

To me the white line looks like a traffic calming measure to effectively "narrow" the road to one car width - maybe to discourage rat-runs.

It looks too narrow to pass safely, and there has been a case where a cyclist won on appeal about cycling along a road with double white lines where cars weren't allowed to pass him. He was pulled over for obstruction and argued it wasn't.

thelawnet

paulintheforest wrote:

The officer claimed to be tactical cycling certified, advanced driving and rides 22 hours per week at 24 - 25 mph so knows what he is talking about.

What's tactical cycling then?

22 hours per week at 25mph is 30,000 miles per year, and doesn't seem consistent with a police officer's workload

dilemna

AndyManc wrote:

alfablue wrote:

King Jeffers wrote:

El Gordo wrote:

There's no point in annoying people in the name of asserting your right to be on the road.

Agree - I would have attempted to pull over a bit. Especially at that time of the day, although you would think the police had more important things to deal with :roll:

This is the problem, because Joe/Jane Bloggs the car driver left for work too late to get there on time without dangerous encroachment and overtakes on cyclists (and most likely speeding), the default view is therefore that the cyclist should get in the gutter.

If the incident was in the narrow section of the road that is for 2 way traffic then there is only space for one road user between the white lines, whether that vehicle be a bike or a car. If you hug the gutter you encourage the dangerous overtake.

100% , there are a number of cyclists that continue to have an inferiority complex and don't believe that they have as much right to on the road as other vehicles .

They are their own worst enemy and their attitudes are a detriment to the whole cycling community .

As far as the lying bull*hiting cop is concerned I would have taken his details and made a formal complaint.


.

+1.

To the OP I'd go further and say he was an ignorant arrogant c**t. He also doesn't know the law or the HC. There is no requirement to cycle in the gutter and drivers whether cops or not should take MORE care when they encounter cyclists. If you were riding at 4 mph he might have a point but if at 15-20mph he is on a loser. He was on a power trip to bully you. The fact that he took you out of sight of the other occupants in his car speaks volumes as he wanted to intimidate you. If indeed he was just six inches from you I would have accused him of dangerous driving which sounds like he was. A helmet cam front and REAR would have been very useful. In the time he spent harassing and bullying you he could have taken about 30 seconds driving behind at a safe distance allowing you to pass through the pinch point or bad road design you write of in effect giving you an escort, then given you plenty of room as he passed which would have been a textbook lesson and really good example to motons following and approaching how to drive safely around cyclists. But no instead he decided to take the bullying 4rse get the f**k out of my way approach. Yet another good ambassador for the police, what an idiot!

You should make an offical complaint to the Chief Constable/IPCC or Roadsafe - laugh! I know there are coppers that post on here and hopefully they would have been as shocked as you and we are at this bully's behaviour. Hopefully they will be dismayed yet another copper being an arse. If they are not pulling disabled people out of wheel chairs and batoning them or violently pushing people over killing them then they are not happy. There are too many cops who are just thugs in uniform. Would have been good if you had been a copper cycling to work (obviously not as you are far too erudite and restrained) and could have shown him your badge/warrant card then told him to F**k Off! Even better if you were a senior grade/rank and told him he would face a disciplinary for being a bully, bringing the force into disrepute etc. The only thing he would be driving would be a swivel chair. This copper shouldn't be allowed on the roads as he's obviously got anger management issues. I would make a complaint as he has tried to bully and humiliate you, the fact that your colleagues saw you being pulled over and question you would be acute embarrassment. He needs to reprimanded at least and re-trained on the HC and driving around vulnerable road users. What a tit.

HebdenBiker

No point in making a complaint against the copper. It's your word against his and he would just lie.

Police officers in general are not very bright. Some of them enjoy the power they think their uniform gives them. One thing that coppers hate is a "smartarse", or in other words, anyone who argues with them, right or wrong. You can't win. When stopped by the police, best to say as little as possible, nod, and hopefully, they'll f*ck off soon enough.

MrChuck

AndyManc wrote:

alfablue wrote:

King Jeffers wrote:

El Gordo wrote:

There's no point in annoying people in the name of asserting your right to be on the road.

Agree - I would have attempted to pull over a bit. Especially at that time of the day, although you would think the police had more important things to deal with :roll:

This is the problem, because Joe/Jane Bloggs the car driver left for work too late to get there on time without dangerous encroachment and overtakes on cyclists (and most likely speeding), the default view is therefore that the cyclist should get in the gutter.

If the incident was in the narrow section of the road that is for 2 way traffic then there is only space for one road user between the white lines, whether that vehicle be a bike or a car. If you hug the gutter you encourage the dangerous overtake.

100% , there are a number of cyclists that continue to have an inferiority complex and don't believe that they have as much right to on the road as other vehicles .

They are their own worst enemy and their attitudes are a detriment to the whole cycling community .

.

I don't think that's true. As in most things, being too militant about asserting your right to the road doesn't really help anyone out. Showing a bit of consideration for others (even if they're drivers ) rather than just doing what you're entitled to and stuff everybody else isn't the same as letting drivers walk all over you.

There's a new 3-laned roundabout near my house that has a fairly steep uphill approach to it. I want the inside lane, but to take it safely I'd have to move into it quite a long way before, and on my SS commuter that means I'd be winching up it pretty slowly with a big queue of cars behind me.

Obviously I'd be perfectly within my rights to do that, and drivers would just have to wait. But I don't, I nip through the park instead because I don't think anybody wins- I don't want the queue behind me, and I don't think it'll help to mke cyclists any more popular amongst drivers. Again you could argue that drivers don't have to like it, but back in the real world I think you'd have to be daft to think that it doesn't matter if drivers are hostile to cyclists.

downfader

Havent had time to read all the replies so apologies if this has been covered...

...the white lines appear to be "shoulder lines". It defines the edge of the road in the Highway Code and the RTr act. All road users should treat that as the road's edge. Reasons for the painting may be to protect drains, reduce traffic flow from breaking into two lanes (as some drivers try to create on some roads), and sometimes to aid visibility for road users emerging from properties and side roads.

I would make a formal complaint to the Police about this, and if you're a member of the CTC or British Cycling inform them of what happened. They can offer advice on how to complain effectively and can raise awareness of the issues. I would also log on to the CTC's stopSMIDSY website and log this in as an incident of bad driving along with the conversation that followed. The campaign is collecting evidence (even now) of bad driving and police response, and it appears both those fall under the same umbrella here. :?

EDIT: actually,. another point to note is how road surface behind shoulder lines can be vastly inferior to the actual center section. The ones I've found myself riding in have risked punctures (glass and debris), loose road surface from breakup and sometimes just plain bumpy!

al2098

Bails87

In summary, 'al', you are a pleb.

Another intelligent comment from this person who finds it comforting to call people names in the safety and security of an anon forum.

downfader

al2098 wrote:

Bails87

In summary, 'al', you are a pleb.

Another intelligent comment from this person who finds it comforting to call people names in the safety and security of an anon forum.

Reading some of your previous you havent exactly been constructive here. I'd stop trolling for reactions imo. :?

al2098

downfader wrote:

al2098 wrote:

Bails87

In summary, 'al', you are a pleb.

Another intelligent comment from this person who finds it comforting to call people names in the safety and security of an anon forum.

Reading some of your previous you havent exactly been constructive here. I'd stop trolling for reactions imo. :?

OK then..;>)

Mccrear

as an insurance consultant i can advise that cyclists are "vulnerable road users" and as such, if they can justify it, your are entitled to use the road as a car would if you feel unsafe being too close to the side. The officer although (in his view) was trying to do the right thing he was pretty misguided and plain wrong. If the police have this attitude what chance do we have with other road users??