Just got £30 fine for jumping a red...!

nomadicbry

i always jump red lights when safe…no different than crossing a road as a pedestrian without finding a pedestrian crossing or waiting for the green man… as long as you check it's safe…Technically a lot of evidence proves you're safer jumping the red light.

However to those of you like me the police are now regularly staking out the junction of Kingsland road and Old street in Shoreditch usually in the morning rush hour so just take a look first at that junction

noticed they didn't stop the drivers who were stopped on the bike section at the front nor the pedestrians who crossed the road without waiting for the green man…technically both breaking the law I believe

Jay dubbleU

Jumping a red is llegal - if you don't like the fine don't do it. It's never safer to RLJ - just lazier or more convenient perhaps

prj45

nomadicbry wrote:

pedestrians who crossed the road without waiting for the green man…technically breaking the law I believe

No, absolutely not. About the only things a pedestrian can do in the UK that are illegal is walk along a motorway without good cause or loiter on a pedestrian crossing. We don't have jay walking laws in the UK and any hint of them should be smacked on the head very quickly.


As for motor vehicles in ASL boxes, the law surrounding that is quite subtle, a motor vehicle for instance must stop at the second line if the light goes red, so they can end up in an ASL box, indeed not to would involve breaking the law.



And stop jumping red lights, you make us all look like c****ts.

veronese68

So where a cycle path crosses a main road next to a pelican crossing, both of which are controlled by the same set of lights, is it illegal to cycle across on red? This is the crossing outside Kingston station, http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Kingston+Upon+Thames+KT2+6LN&aq=0&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=20.541525,39.506836&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Kingston+Upon+Thames+KT2+6LN,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.412457,-0.301266&spn=0.010546,0.01929&z=16&layer=c&cbll=51.412233,-0.300827&panoid=WgieKxQgjBtIaZ_F2RGmLg&cbp=12,304.15,,0,14.59
The chap on the right in a beige sweatshirt is stood in the cycle path, another common irritation.

thelawnet

Veronese68 wrote:

So where a cycle path crosses a main road next to a pelican crossing, both of which are controlled by the same set of lights, is it illegal to cycle across on red?

So you're cycling in the cycle track, and there's a cycle-specific light there, separate to the pelican crossing? According to the Highway Code, you MUST stop when the cycle-specific light is red.

Paul E

My, heart, bleeds.

gaz545

prj45 wrote:

As for motor vehicles in ASL boxes, the law surrounding that is quite subtle, a motor vehicle for instance must stop at the second line if the light goes red, so they can end up in an ASL box, indeed not to would involve breaking the law.

That isn't right.
The law is

Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red

Applespider

But if the light was green and they were in the ASL while waiting for a box junction to clear, but then the lights changed, they could be legally in the ASL. So if you automatically penalised all drivers who were in one, I suspect that would be their main line of defence. I suppose if you captured an image just before the lights changed to amber and then on red, you'd get the majority right though.

dhope

Applespider wrote:

But if the light was green and they were in the ASL while waiting for a box junction to clear, but then the lights changed, they could be legally in the ASL. So if you automatically penalised all drivers who were in one, I suspect that would be their main line of defence. I suppose if you captured an image just before the lights changed to amber and then on red, you'd get the majority right though.

Rubbish
You rarely see cars sitting right across the middle of ped crossings because people realise that they shouldn't park there in heavy traffic incase the lights change and they're stuck sitting on top of a set of lights. Same logic applies to box junctions and ASLs, if you've not got the time to get through then don't park there, park behind and only move through them when you're okay to do so.

sketchley

Unfortunatley Applespider is correct. Being in the ASL is not proof you crossed the first line on Amber or Red. A change in the law so that ASL as treated the same as box junctions (e.g. you cannot enter them unless exit is clear) would resolve this along with a change to allow fines to be issued using CCTV for this offence.

gaz545

Applespider wrote:

But if the light was green and they were in the ASL while waiting for a box junction to clear, but then the lights changed, they could be legally in the ASL. So if you automatically penalised all drivers who were in one, I suspect that would be their main line of defence. I suppose if you captured an image just before the lights changed to amber and then on red, you'd get the majority right though.

I recall reading somewhere that ASL's should be treated similarly to pedestrian crossings, zebra crossings and yellow boxes. Vehicle drivers shouldn't stop in them at all.

The police how ever, will only give someone an FPN if they witness them drive into it whilst the light is red. And even then, they will only give them an FPN if they witness them do it several times

I have heard on the grapevine that the police in London may start looking at motorcyclists filtering to the ASL. However i can't reveal my source.

sketchley

Highway Code

178 Advanced stop lines.

Some signal-controlled junctions have advanced stop lines to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic. Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times, e.g. if the junction ahead is blocked. If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red, you MUST stop at the second white line, even if your vehicle is in the marked area. Allow cyclists time and space to move off when the green signal shows.

rick_chasey

navt wrote:

. I live for red lights.

I wouldn't admit to that.


Ever.

prj45

gaz545 wrote:

I recall reading somewhere that ASL's should be treated similarly to pedestrian crossings, zebra crossings and yellow boxes. Vehicle drivers shouldn't stop in them at all.

No, if they pass the first white line and the light goes red before they hit the second they MUST stop in the ASL, i.e. not pass the second white line.

Mark Elvin

Good, you deserved it.

toontra

alfablue wrote:

and sometimes you hit / annoy / frighten pedestrians

That's the big one for me. We cyclists are always complaining (justifiably) about being bullied by motorists. It's therefore a bit rich to start intimidating the only more vulnerable road-user, pedestrians, by zipping past them at lights.

Whether you pose a direct threat to them or not is irrelevant - the fact you make them feel less safe crossing roads is itself a bad thing. Life is stressful enough without having to worry about some prat bombing past you when crossing on a green-man just because he/she can't be arsed to stop.

£30 on-the-spot fine seems about right to me.

alfablue

toontra wrote:

alfablue wrote:

and sometimes you hit / annoy / frighten pedestrians

That's the big one for me. We cyclists are always complaining (justifiably) about being bullied by motorists. It's therefore a bit rich to start intimidating the only more vulnerable road-user, pedestrians, by zipping past them at lights.

Whether you pose a direct threat to them or not is irrelevant - the fact you make them feel less safe crossing roads is itself a bad thing. Life is stressful enough without having to worry about some prat bombing past you when crossing on a green-man just because he/she can't be arsed to stop.

I couldn't agree more Toontra!

It's a bit like the van driver that drove past me on my bike leaving about 5cm from my arm. At the lights I politely asked him not to pass so close. He said (in a threatening tone), "If I wanted to ****** hit you, I would have ****** hit you". That made me feel SO much better!

So he terrorised me with his van, but its okay because HE knows (thinks) he is a highly skilled driver immune from error. Likewise the pedestrian you RLJ'ers buzz on your bike at the crossing will know its okay because you have superhero cycling skills and infallability! :roll:

The arrogance of the "me first" generation.

il_principe

Wow. A 4 page response to some trolling. Top work.

jonny_trousers

A £30 fine's too good for 'em. Cut their hands off I say!

cee

The Beginner wrote:

Still a criminal offence though!

ah...not quite.......

not a criminal offence....its a civil offence......you wouldn't get a criminal record for jumping a red light.....

crumpetman

dhope wrote:

Rubbish
You rarely see cars sitting right across the middle of ped crossings because people realise that they shouldn't park there in heavy traffic incase the lights change and they're stuck sitting on top of a set of lights. Same logic applies to box junctions and ASLs, if you've not got the time to get through then don't park there, park behind and only move through them when you're okay to do so.

I'm not sure if you meant that seriously or not but I see plenty of vehicles sitting on pedastrian crossings even though there is fair chance they will still be there when the light changes from green to red.

Some times they are bumper to bumper so that when the green man is showing for peds to cross there is virtually no room to get past them. Many times I have been tempted to open the back door of a car and slide across the back seat to make my way across the road.

dhope

crumpetman wrote:

dhope wrote:

Rubbish
You rarely see cars sitting right across the middle of ped crossings because people realise that they shouldn't park there in heavy traffic incase the lights change and they're stuck sitting on top of a set of lights. Same logic applies to box junctions and ASLs, if you've not got the time to get through then don't park there, park behind and only move through them when you're okay to do so.

I'm not sure if you meant that seriously or not but I see plenty of vehicles sitting on pedastrian crossings even though there is fair chance they will still be there when the light changes from green to red.

Some times they are bumper to bumper so that when the green man is showing for peds to cross there is virtually no room to get past them. Many times I have been tempted to open the back door of a car and slide across the back seat to make my way across the road.

It happens of course, but I see comparitively few cars sitting across ped crossings once the lights have changed. Bike lanes or ASLs seem far more open to abuse.

prj45

cee wrote:

The Beginner wrote:

Still a criminal offence though!

ah...not quite.......

not a criminal offence....its a civil offence......you wouldn't get a criminal record for jumping a red light.....

It's a criminal offence, as is speeding. If it was civil the police wouldn't get involved.

Civil law is (in general) litigation between people, companies, organisations or parties and normally concerns money.

Criminal law is the state regulating conduct by way of a criminal code and transgression results ina fine or imprisonment imposed by the State.

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/in ... 438AAkcCzu

The Rookie

Seconded, any offence prosecuted by the police is a criminal offemce, it may be non-recordable (therefor you don't get a criminal record) which most motoring offences are, but that makes it no less criminal.

Cee - purely out of interest, what made you say so adamntly something that was total bollox, I'm trying to understand the psyche behind such posts and not be offensive by the way.

Simon