Fuel costs

unixnerd

Just out of curiosity, is it locals who work on the A9 roadworks south of Newtonmore? That's a fairly big job building up the carriageway. I drove past it a few times ( yes, at 30 mph unlike most others) and saw a lot of what looked like temporary sleeping accommodation for workers.

Not sure about that bit. But quite a lot of my relatives work tarring roads. They're based in Inverness and get moved around everywhere from Skye to Aberdeen!

PXR5

[/quote]

Ok in the power and fuel industry so here you go.

OIl is traded in barrels in USD in the last few years we have gone from a remarkably strong position against the dollar to a prety crap one. therefore prices have been driven up due to the exchange rates.

So go buy a clue[/quote]


We hear this arguement all the time, but i just don't buy it....The Euro is stronger than its ever been against the rapidly falling dollar, so we get more dollars for our cash, yet the price is still going up ?

I can only think that there is a nasty case of price fixing going on to maintain oil company profits and bonuses, but no gouvernment is going to have the balls to take on a multinational oil company...

Buckled_Rims

PXR5 wrote:

We hear this arguement all the time, but i just don't buy it....The Euro is stronger than its ever been against the rapidly falling dollar, so we get more dollars for our cash, yet the price is still going up ?

I can only think that there is a nasty case of price fixing going on to maintain oil company profits and bonuses, but no gouvernment is going to have the balls to take on a multinational oil company...

Mmm, you still fail to realise that the the petrol, Oil companies sell in the UK, only cost 50p per Litre, yet the government places 85p tax on top of that. The Government doesn't trade in US Dollars or Euros on our tax so how can they justify 85p per litre tax?

If the price of petrol goes up, then the government gets more money in tax revenue, so why should they have the balls to stand up to them. If they do, then they'll also lose revenue from the North Sea oil and gas.

The oil companies like shell/BO/total all pay by US Dollars anyhow, so any fluctuation is a bit of a red herring. One of the surprises I found out years ago was how many large companies and Governments buy/sell US Dollars well in advance of major price fluctuations, leading to me thinking the foreign exchanges are all fixed and know the future - er, apart from Gordon Brown who sold 50% of our gold reserve at 1/6th the price it is now.

The simple fact is, someone is advising the government on how much they can squeeze from the people buying petrol/diesel without an overall protest.

rhext

Buckled_Rims wrote:

PXR5 wrote:

We hear this arguement all the time, but i just don't buy it....The Euro is stronger than its ever been against the rapidly falling dollar, so we get more dollars for our cash, yet the price is still going up ?

I can only think that there is a nasty case of price fixing going on to maintain oil company profits and bonuses, but no gouvernment is going to have the balls to take on a multinational oil company...

Mmm, you still fail to realise that the the petrol, Oil companies sell in the UK, only cost 50p per Litre, yet the government places 85p tax on top of that. The Government doesn't trade in US Dollars or Euros on our tax so how can they justify 85p per litre tax?

If the price of petrol goes up, then the government gets more money in tax revenue, so why should they have the balls to stand up to them. If they do, then they'll also lose revenue from the North Sea oil and gas.

The oil companies like shell/BO/total all pay by US Dollars anyhow, so any fluctuation is a bit of a red herring. One of the surprises I found out years ago was how many large companies and Governments buy/sell US Dollars well in advance of major price fluctuations, leading to me thinking the foreign exchanges are all fixed and know the future - er, apart from Gordon Brown who sold 50% of our gold reserve at 1/6th the price it is now.

The simple fact is, someone is advising the government on how much they can squeeze from the people buying petrol/diesel without an overall protest.

And you would replace the tax take how?

Or are you another of these individuals who seem to think that there are two 'the guvverments': one which squats like an obese toad jealously shovelling our hard-earned cash into already overstuffed 'coffers' (whatever they are); and another which has an infinite supply of resources which should be immediately available to banish any of society's many woes but which won't dish them out because they're too mean.

bails87

Buckled_Rims wrote:

the government places 85p tax on top of that..... how can they justify 85p per litre tax?

Because the social costs* of petrol/diesel use are greater than 85p per litre. When the costs match or exceed the externalities then you'd have a point.

*Costs to health due to fumes, run off into water supplies, noise pollution, crashes, lack of exercise, financial costs such as road building, NHS/police/fire service time spent peeling people off the roads and putting them back together, time off work due to RTAs and due to ill health caused by cars or by sedentary lifestyles encouraged by cars.

Buckled_Rims

rhext wrote:

And you would replace the tax take how?

Or are you another of these individuals who seem to think that there are two 'the guvverments': one which squats like an obese toad jealously shovelling our hard-earned cash into already overstuffed 'coffers' (whatever they are); and another which has an infinite supply of resources which should be immediately available to banish any of society's many woes but which won't dish them out because they're too mean.

I'm certainly the first, if that's any help. There is not an activity that isn't taxed in this country in some form or other.

Secondly, if I had my way, any new car would have to do a minimum of 100 mpg. If the fuel tax was being used genuinely to build alternative energy sources I certainly wouldn't complain - but it's not.

Footnote: I wrote this on the same day that the Government easily finds the money to replace the Trident nuclear submarines which will probably going to cost £20billion in total. Er, how much is spent on wave power research?

Anonymous

Buckled_Rims wrote:

Secondly, if I had my way, any new car would have to do a minimum of 100 mpg.

Oh I see, you're a crackpot.

supersonic

Doesn't that Peel P50 do about that?

cooldad

I believe that a single beardy sandal wearing vegetarian hippy produces enough methane daily to run a car. So if they really wanted to save the planet they'd volunteer to live in my boot plugged into an LPG conversion. Large V8's will probably need a couple though.

angry_bird

I never realise how much petrol costs when I'm at uni, last time I was back home and went to fill the car up I actually did a double take when I saw the cost.

The Northern Monkey

I would like one of those vw Polo bluemotions.

Actually quite nice cars, 60+mpg and no tax!

Anonymous

My old man's golf gets 50+mpg, and has no road tax, and its a damn sight nicer than the bluemotion polos.

The Northern Monkey

I didn't know there were any other golfs other than the bluemotion that didn't have to be taxed?

Or is your dad a dodgy welshman?

Anonymous

Nah, it (was) a brand spanking Golf TDI 1.6. 115BHP (slightly more than mine dammit!). Emissions so low there is zero road tax.
He likes to keep reminding me of that...
"When did you say the tax was due on your golf again? You know, mine doesn't need it"

ThePriory1978

My shit-box of a Clio easily pulls 65mpg+. Much better than a Prius or Blue Motion or much anything else that supposedly green. It gets near as dammit 700 miles from a tank. Its a 1.5 diesel, £30 road tax, £100 to service, £35 a tyre

Got fed up of the mighty high fuel bills so traded in a nice Audi and bought the most economic thing i could.

Even tho its got all the mod-cons its crap, but i'm very happy with it, if that makes sense.

I really wanted to trade it in for a new CR-Z hybrid not so long ago but couldn't justify it as the hybrid only pulled 50mpg and all the running costs were sky high even tho it had free road-tax

surreyxc

fuel, ha I thought we were talking about food, but then that has shot up to.

lucky enough to not need a car at present, but when and if I buy a cheap car I think I will be fitting a pre heat then you car is running at the best mpg it can from the moment you go.

bails87

My 106 did 50mpg no matter what I did. It dropped a bit if I pushed it on the motorway, but on my drive to work (country roads) and in town traffic it was dirt cheap to run. Tyres for £30 a go, no fancy stuff on it, so nothing to go wrong.

lvquestpaddler

Just out of curiosity, is it locals who work on the A9 roadworks south of Newtonmore?

The Main contractor is a John Paul Contracts- NI based and i've never seen any of the road jobs being advertised, occasional admin post but looks like they've imported the workforce from somewhere. Doesn't surprise me the days of an unskilled navvy appearing and getting work on spec are gone- All that fancy new CSCS+ road qualifications mean only big companies can keep up with H+S so their workforce will go with them. That's why so many small construction firms are closing down, bogged down by Euro legislation and the huge costs of keeping "certified".
I'm baffled why my old 8 valve industrial tractor VX Combo 1.7d, ten years old was £200 a year tax. My 1 Year old 1.3cdti, which meets Euro 4 emissions standards(?) and is the same engine as in a Corsa is....£200. Hmmmmm.....
Oh- and peak oil is a myth, though all the numpties who believe CO2 is damaging the planet would lynch me for suggesting something like that(385ppm? Greenhouses are kept at 1100ppm and they seem to work well at producing things. Water vapour is the only significant "greenhouse" element...) Each year the prices are set at the Bilderberg shadow government meeting...

allen.coulson

Angry Bird wrote:

I never realise how much petrol costs when I'm at uni, last time I was back home and went to fill the car up I actually did a double take when I saw the cost.

What, you pay them £9000 a year and they don't even teach you the price of petrol???

Can't be a very good uni.

andrewyzfr6

MarcBC wrote:

Neil Fat man on a bike wrote:

£1.62 per litre od diesel ............is this the most expensive fuel in the UK?
Location Durness, Highlands.
:?:

That is disgusting. One place where a car is an absolute essential and prices are allowed to go wild. I just paid 139.9o for a litre of diesel.

My 77 yr old mother in law lives in the highlands and has an 80 mile round trip just to buy food. Before anyone jumps in, for various reasons, no she cannot move.

There is another point to observe here. The fuel in Durness is sold in very small quantities. But the operator of the fuel station must be payed the same as the guy operating 6 pumps in a city.So in theory each pump has 6 times the operating costs per hour(day, week etc) and that is if its selling a capacity(which it isnt) You still need a petrolium licence(same cost for one or 50 pumps), insurance(although possibly cheaper, I'll bet its more expencive per litre sold) and for the supplier to get the fuel to them I bet it costs a fortune due to the distance to each site to drop the fuel.

Another point is when you buy fuel in a big multinational station it is most likely being supplied to you by the producer directly(bp, shell etc) In durness the retailer buys it from a wholesaler(scottish fuels?) who in turn buy it from a producer, so 3 people are having to make a living from it.That is before you get into scale of volumes, which in Durness is tiny, so ppl= expensive.
I'd be surprised if the retailer is getting mouch more than 5ppl.
Ofcoarse the government is getting about 27ppl in VAT alone!!!!!
So who is doing the ripping off???!!

andrewyzfr6

lvquestpaddler wrote:

Just out of curiosity, is it locals who work on the A9 roadworks south of Newtonmore?

The Main contractor is a John Paul Contracts- NI based and i've never seen any of the road jobs being advertised, occasional admin post but looks like they've imported the workforce from somewhere. Doesn't surprise me the days of an unskilled navvy appearing and getting work on spec are gone- All that fancy new CSCS+ road qualifications mean only big companies can keep up with H+S so their workforce will go with them. That's why so many small construction firms are closing down, bogged down by Euro legislation and the huge costs of keeping "certified".
I'm baffled why my old 8 valve industrial tractor VX Combo 1.7d, ten years old was £200 a year tax. My 1 Year old 1.3cdti, which meets Euro 4 emissions standards(?) and is the same engine as in a Corsa is....£200. Hmmmmm.....
Oh- and peak oil is a myth, though all the numpties who believe CO2 is damaging the planet would lynch me for suggesting something like that(385ppm? Greenhouses are kept at 1100ppm and they seem to work well at producing things. Water vapour is the only significant "greenhouse" element...) Each year the prices are set at the Bilderberg shadow government meeting...

Because the combo is a commercial vehicle it is £210 per year to tax, but the car version is £30, that has nothing to do with co2 emmissions, it has everything to do with the government making money.
While on this subject do you know how to half the co2 emmissions (bearing in mind this is what your taxed on)on a modern petrol car? Which would effectivly put most "normal" cars into the free tax banding? REMOVE THE CATALYST!!!!! But legislation says it has to be there! So much for being commited to the enviroment.

bwfc4eva868

Bike cost £24.50 to fill up the other day. Just been serviced so hoping to see more than 280 miles to a tank or roughly 77 mpg. Thinking of trading the 125 in for its 250 brother tho, as I'd still get good MPG but with a little more go.

Not used the 600 this month as the weather has been shite and 100 miles to £15 does not go down well for commuting.

evillittlegoat

andrewyzfr6 wrote:

lvquestpaddler wrote:

Just out of curiosity, is it locals who work on the A9 roadworks south of Newtonmore?

The Main contractor is a John Paul Contracts- NI based and i've never seen any of the road jobs being advertised, occasional admin post but looks like they've imported the workforce from somewhere. Doesn't surprise me the days of an unskilled navvy appearing and getting work on spec are gone- All that fancy new CSCS+ road qualifications mean only big companies can keep up with H+S so their workforce will go with them. That's why so many small construction firms are closing down, bogged down by Euro legislation and the huge costs of keeping "certified".
I'm baffled why my old 8 valve industrial tractor VX Combo 1.7d, ten years old was £200 a year tax. My 1 Year old 1.3cdti, which meets Euro 4 emissions standards(?) and is the same engine as in a Corsa is....£200. Hmmmmm.....
Oh- and peak oil is a myth, though all the numpties who believe CO2 is damaging the planet would lynch me for suggesting something like that(385ppm? Greenhouses are kept at 1100ppm and they seem to work well at producing things. Water vapour is the only significant "greenhouse" element...) Each year the prices are set at the Bilderberg shadow government meeting...

Because the combo is a commercial vehicle it is £210 per year to tax, but the car version is £30, that has nothing to do with co2 emmissions, it has everything to do with the government making money.
While on this subject do you know how to half the co2 emmissions (bearing in mind this is what your taxed on)on a modern petrol car? Which would effectivly put most "normal" cars into the free tax banding? REMOVE THE CATALYST!!!!! But legislation says it has to be there! So much for being commited to the enviroment.

Just to make you both feel better, annual road tax on my old merc here in Ireland is €1,566.

bails87

lvquestpaddler wrote:

[
Oh- and peak oil is a myth, though all the numpties who believe CO2 is damaging the planet would lynch me for suggesting something like that(385ppm? Greenhouses are kept at 1100ppm and they seem to work well at producing things. Water vapour is the only significant "greenhouse" element...) Each year the prices are set at the Bilderberg shadow government meeting...

Surely the fact that putting lots of CO2 in greenhouses makes them warmer which makes stuff grow, kind of suggests that putting more CO2 into the atmosphere might also make it warmer? I don't see how "things grow well in greenhouses with lots of CO2, therefore CO2 has no effect" is logical?

andrewyzfr6 wrote:

While on this subject do you know how to half the co2 emmissions (bearing in mind this is what your taxed on)on a modern petrol car? Which would effectivly put most "normal" cars into the free tax banding? REMOVE THE CATALYST!!!!! But legislation says it has to be there! So much for being commited to the enviroment.

Isn't the catalytic convertor there to turn harmful stuff into slightly less harmful stuff? So take it out and you emit less CO2 but more hydrocarbons and nitrous oxides?

Rich9

yes, carbon monoxide I think. We I guess is much more harmful than Co2??

We've just chopped in the wifes car to get something more efficient. 1.5 petrol Swift was costing around £60 a week for commuting and a bit of running around. She's now got a 1.4 diesel fiesta which 'should' be much better on fuel

Ridiculous position to find yourself in though. Spending money on a new car to save £20 a week :roll:

Anonymous

Hmm,the 1.4 diesel might not save much, the engine will be being worked quite hard. 1.6 Seems to be a great sweet spot at the moment... Powerful enough to not struggle, so it runs easily, but far cheaper than a 1.9 or 2.0 to run.
I might be wrong, of course, and it depends a lot on where you're driving.

bails87

Like you say, it depends on what the journeys are like. I've got a 1.8 Focus TDCi and get over 50mpg from it, but that's on motorways (I stick to sensible speeds, but if you properly anticipate stuff ahead of you to minimise braking/accelerating and drive at 60ish then the fuel economy really improves, when I've got the patience to do that I've done motorway trips at >70mpg) and on fairly open country roads, driving at city speeds a smaller engine would probably be better.

Thewaylander

Also it depends on the type of trips,

I drive a deisel and its not very ecenomical for my commute to work as it's only 7 miles, the engine doesn't really warm up and deisels take alot longer thatn petrol to warm up.

Also i have found even the eco style deisels return terrible mileage if you drive them to stay with traffic as there so long geared one i wanted to over take a lorry ont he motorway, and had to drop to 4th and proper welly it to get it to 70 which was annoying. there just hard work.

I think your right yee 1.6tdi seems about there point where it has enough power to cope with the longer ratios they use to get the lower emmissions.

bails87

Thewaylander wrote:

my commute to work ....only 7 miles

And why aren't you on your bike every day? Tsk tsk

alfablue

Rich9 wrote:

Ridiculous position to find yourself in though. Spending money on a new car to save £20 a week :roll:

It's probably not worth it, the losses you make on the car swap (especially if depreciation is a factor) may take years to recoup especially as diesel is more expensive. It feels better to pay out less per week, but it is a case of looking at the bigger picture to see if there are any savings at all - your "economy" measures may cost you more.