Schleck Bros - Will they win a GT?
Comments
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Anyone want to go on betfair and take a bet with me on Basso beating Schleck?
I could make a killing here.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Anyone want to go on betfair and take a bet with me on Basso beating Schleck?
I could make a killing here.
You seem to be quite the Schleck fanboi. He's not Dutch you know
Is it true that whenever he walks into a room everyone wonders who just left?Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Anyone want to go on betfair and take a bet with me on Basso beating Schleck?
I could make a killing here.
You seem to be quite the Schleck fanboi. He's not Dutch you know
Is it true that whenever he walks into a room everyone wonders who just left?
Haha.
I genuinely think he has more talent than Basso and I'm surprised to see so many people backing someone who bottled it hard in the Tour.
I don't think you can deduce much from the Giro 2010. Just look at the top 10 GC:
Ivan Basso (Italy) Liquigas-Doimo 87h 44' 01"
2 David Arroyo (Spain) Caisse d'Epargne + 1' 51"
3 Vincenzo Nibali (Italy) Liquigas-Doimo + 2' 37"
4 Michele Scarponi (Italy) Androni Giocattoli + 2' 50"
5 Cadel Evans (Australia) BMC Racing Team + 3' 27"
6 Alexander Vinokourov (Kazakhstan) Astana + 7' 06"
7 Richie Porte (Australia) Team Saxo Bank + 7' 22"
8 Carlos Sastre (Spain) Cervélo TestTeam + 9' 39"
9 Marco Pinotti (Italy) Team HTC-Columbia + 14' 20"
10 Robert Kiserlovski (Croatia) Liquigas-Doimo + 14' 51"
Schleck came 2nd in the Tour with consumate ease, and was only bettered by Contador. Between them they were playing with the other GC contenders on the climbs - of which Basso wasn't even included.0 -
Basso is a climber.Contador is the Greatest0
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Rick Chasey wrote:I genuinely think he has more talent than Basso and I'm surprised to see so many people backing someone who bottled it hard in the Tour.
You mean got very ill?
If it wasn't for Don Cancellera, Andy wouldn't have finished in the top 30 last year.
I suspect people favour Basso because he knows how to win a grand tour, has a good team and is not doing the Giro so should have better legs.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:I genuinely think he has more talent than Basso and I'm surprised to see so many people backing someone who bottled it hard in the Tour.
You mean got very ill?
If it wasn't for Don Cancellera, Andy wouldn't have finished in the top 30 last year.
I suspect people favour Basso because he knows how to win a grand tour, has a good team and is not doing the Giro so should have better legs.
Ill shmill - I tried that excuse with my girlfriend when Boonen was rubbish in the '09 tour.
She didn't buy it.
Thus, neither will I.
"I can turn up to the Tour and be rubbish" was her exact quote, and she's plenty smarter than me.
Anyway, the Cancellara factor, if it even is one ( I guess it is in a TTT) has to be considered when chatting about Andy.0 -
Leopard have shown they are rubbish at handling a race and providing support when needed.
Liquigas are the best stage racing team in the world. Watching them at work last year was a joy.Contador is the Greatest0 -
I couldn't have said it better.RichN95 wrote:iainf72 wrote:Is it true that whenever he walks into a room everyone wonders who just left?
No. But it is true that the only reason everyone's still in the room is because Cancellara made them wait for Andy.
Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
frenchfighter wrote:Leopard have shown they are rubbish at handling a race and providing support when needed.
Liquigas are the best stage racing team in the world. Watching them at work last year was a joy.
Which GT was it in that Leopard showed us this, did I miss it? You might be right, but give them a chance first.0 -
They haven't won for one reason: they're not willing to risk it all for first. Andy's afraid of ending up in 6th place, so he'd rather have 2nd place than a chance at first with a risk at 6th (from blowing up).0
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It's a long season, I know.dougzz wrote:frenchfighter wrote:Leopard have shown they are rubbish at handling a race and providing support when needed.
Liquigas are the best stage racing team in the world. Watching them at work last year was a joy.
Which GT was it in that Leopard showed us this, did I miss it? You might be right, but give them a chance first.
I think what is meant, All the preseason Leopard Hype has fallen short so far.
Headless chicken perhaps. Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
Rubbish. Andy didn't win Liege because he was afraid, nor did he give it all in a speculative attack in Amstel Gold. Andy realistically is the only one talented enough, and he, rightly, puts all his GT eggs into the tour basket. Last yeah he got beaten because he couldn't drop contador. He tried, many times, but his most keenly felt attack got nullified because he dropped his chain.donrhummy wrote:They haven't won for one reason: they're not willing to risk it all for first. Andy's afraid of ending up in 6th place, so he'd rather have 2nd place than a chance at first with a risk at 6th (from blowing up).
In short, I think you're wrong. :P0 -
donrhummy wrote:They haven't won for one reason: they're not willing to risk it all for first. Andy's afraid of ending up in 6th place, so he'd rather have 2nd place than a chance at first with a risk at 6th (from blowing up).
1st young rider in last two years TDF and 2 stage wins and holding the yellow for multiple stages shows someone who's prepared to have a go.0 -
Referring to this years Liege to point out that Andy is afraid is just flat out wrong. Gilbert dropped him for a while, so he obviously had nothing left to mount any kind of attack that wouldn't have been an absolute joke. He managed to get back to the group but from there he just had to hang on and hope he could help Frank.
The fact of the matter is it is good to attack if you have something left, but if you know you are going to blow yourself up just to lose anyway there is no point. If we found out Andy had something left but just didn't care to give it a go that would be a different story, but for a while it looked like he was going to be completely dropped by Gilbert. That isn't a rider who has anything left to give for a real attack.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:
Rubbish. Andy didn't win Liege because he was afraid, nor did he give it all in a speculative attack in Amstel Gold. Andy realistically is the only one talented enough, and he, rightly, puts all his GT eggs into the tour basket. Last yeah he got beaten because he couldn't drop contador. He tried, many times, but his most keenly felt attack got nullified because he dropped his chain.donrhummy wrote:They haven't won for one reason: they're not willing to risk it all for first. Andy's afraid of ending up in 6th place, so he'd rather have 2nd place than a chance at first with a risk at 6th (from blowing up).
In short, I think you're wrong. :P
Um, Liege and Amstel are not GT's.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:
In short, I think you're wrong. :P
I thought you didn't understand races that take more than 1 day to complete....Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:
In short, I think you're wrong. :P
I thought you didn't understand races that take more than 1 day to complete....
Can't you tell?
I do think Andy attacks plenty enough and is happy to give it a good go. I think that there just have been occasions when people have had his number and he can't shake them.
He was happy to play silly buggers with Contador by doing track-stands and all sorts in the tour, and he was the one who forced the final selection on the Tourmalet, leaving just him and Contador left, who had his number.
Odd that he gets slanted for not willing to attack wheras Evans gets an easy ride, even if he never attacks in GTs!0 -
Andy is probably the most attacking GC rider when in a GT, maybe more so even than Contador.Contador is the Greatest0
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Rick Chasey wrote:iainf72 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:
In short, I think you're wrong. :P
I thought you didn't understand races that take more than 1 day to complete....
Can't you tell?
I do think Andy attacks plenty enough and is happy to give it a good go. I think that there just have been occasions when people have had his number and he can't shake them.
He was happy to play silly buggers with Contador by doing track-stands and all sorts in the tour, and he was the one who forced the final selection on the Tourmalet, leaving just him and Contador left, who had his number.
Odd that he gets slanted for not willing to attack wheras Evans gets an easy ride, even if he never attacks in GTs!
Really? The amount of criticism Evans used to get for his style was amazing... then people seemed to realise that most of the time, he just wasn't in a position to be able to mount an attack, and since then it has died down.You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
Quite - so why Schleck is getting criticised for not attacking is waay beyond me.Jez mon wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:iainf72 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:
In short, I think you're wrong. :P
I thought you didn't understand races that take more than 1 day to complete....
Can't you tell?
I do think Andy attacks plenty enough and is happy to give it a good go. I think that there just have been occasions when people have had his number and he can't shake them.
He was happy to play silly buggers with Contador by doing track-stands and all sorts in the tour, and he was the one who forced the final selection on the Tourmalet, leaving just him and Contador left, who had his number.
Odd that he gets slanted for not willing to attack wheras Evans gets an easy ride, even if he never attacks in GTs!
Really? The amount of criticism Evans used to get for his style was amazing... then people seemed to realise that most of the time, he just wasn't in a position to be able to mount an attack, and since then it has died down.0 -
Interesting discussion. For me, neither of the Schlecks inspire confidence when I watch them race and i also think that neither are that tactically astute. However, saying that, Andy undoubtedly has the ability to win the Tour and will do so within the next few years, maybe even this..
Frank needs to completely accept the roll of domestique and Andy needs to accept that he has to leave his brother behind at some point in the race. I'd like to see Basso win it, however i'm not sure he'll be able to stick with constant accelerations of a Schleck or a Bertie.
Would've bee interesting to see Andy take on the Giro parcours this year...0 -
Moomaloid wrote:Interesting discussion. For me, neither of the Schlecks inspire confidence when I watch them race and i also think that neither are that tactically astute. However, saying that, Andy undoubtedly has the ability to win the Tour and will do so within the next few years, maybe even this..
Frank needs to completely accept the roll of domestique and Andy needs to accept that he has to leave his brother behind at some point in the race. I'd like to see Basso win it, however i'm not sure he'll be able to stick with constant accelerations of a Schleck or a Bertie.
Would've bee interesting to see Andy take on the Giro parcours this year...
I think the Schleck Bros, as the threads topic states will not win a GT, just one of them. That would be Andy. I definitely agree that they need to see Frank for what he is, which is a good domestique. Instead of acting like he has an actual chance of winning they need to completely use Frank up in order to help Andy, and then Andy needs to do the rest alone. He proved last year that he doesn't need Frank there to do well, but it could be a benefit to have Frank there if Andy is willing to put some time over him as well and get as much time on everyone else when he can, even if it means leaving Frank behind.0 -
I think Frank could, in theory win a GT. If he rode smart, and got lucky on the calibre of his opponents. Three 5th places in GTs is not to be sniffed at...You live and learn. At any rate, you live0
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I don't think Frank can win. Andy? Well you know my opinion of them from the LBL thread. I think he needs to leave Frank and be in a different team to do it. I love my sister but I wouldn't want to work with her! 'Google can bring back a hundred thousand answers. A librarian can bring you back the right one.'
Neil Gaiman0 -
Ms Tree wrote:I don't think Frank can win. Andy? Well you know my opinion of them from the LBL thread. I think he needs to leave Frank and be in a different team to do it. I love my sister but I wouldn't want to work with her!
Why? Is she better at the job but patronises you by hanging back 0 -
dougzz wrote:Ms Tree wrote:I don't think Frank can win. Andy? Well you know my opinion of them from the LBL thread. I think he needs to leave Frank and be in a different team to do it. I love my sister but I wouldn't want to work with her!
Why? Is she better at the job but patronises you by hanging back
Probably!
Anyway she's a better cook but I'm brainier (an more modest).'Google can bring back a hundred thousand answers. A librarian can bring you back the right one.'
Neil Gaiman0 -
Just took a look at the odds for a TdF win without Contador.
Tour De France 2011 - General Classification (without Alberto Contador) Book Closes 02 Jul 11:00
Each-way 1/4 1-2-3
Andy Schleck 5/8
Ivan Basso 11/1
Frank Schleck 11/1
Cadel Evans 11/1
Robert Gesink 14/1
Samuel Sanchez 18/1
Alexandre Vinokourov 33/1
Bradley Wiggins 40/1
Tony Martin 50/1
Vincenzo Nibali 50/1
Jurgen Van Den Broeck 50/1
Janez Brajkovic50/1
Andreas Kloden 50/1
Andy's waaay out ahead...
So nerr..0
