Schleck Bros - Will they win a GT?

mr_goo

I am not as knowledgeable as many of you out there commenting on the pro race scene. But have watched the brothers Andy and Frank over the last couple of years in GTs and most recently in the last stages of LBL on Sunday. I know they have very good palmeras which most pros would be proud of.
Watching the LBL closing stages why didn't one of them think 'sod it bro' I'm off and gonna give this a go? Instead of just leading out Phillipe Gilbert to his easiest win of the week. Would they be more successful if they rode for different teams? I think so.

tailwindhome

[troll] Andy won the 2010 TDF [/troll]

RichN95.

TailWindHome wrote:

[troll] Andy won the 2010 TDF [/troll]

But that was only because Frank crashed out on the cobbles, so Andy couldn't wait for him when they got to the mountains.

He couldn't even wait for him on the cobbled stage because of the tow row attaching him to Cancellara's bike.

mr_goo

TailWindHome wrote:

[troll] Andy won the 2010 TDF [/troll]

Excluding retrospective victories.

afx237vi

I'm going to say no, because I've never seen either of them take a race by the scruff of the neck and go out and win it. You can win a GT by following wheels, but only if you have a TT good enough to get you an advantage you can defend. They don't.

iainf72

Hmmm. I think while both of them are in the same race there could be problems, regardless of team.

They're mentally weak though. Come up against someone like Contador and they will lose the head battle.

I don't blame them for LBL. There was nothing they could do

peddlefever

I say that they will win the tour this year, as long as Contador is in fact not there. If Contador is there they will have to be more aggressive and throw together some punchier attacks. If Contador isn't there then I don't think anyone will keep up with Andy in the mountains because he will be able to gradually put time between himself and everyone else without relying on any huge attacks.

Andy couldn't really afford to be too aggressive against Contador last year because if his attacks didn't stick Contador can attack with big enough of a punch to drop them. That is something both Schleck brothers seem to lack, but I think they will grind down the field enough to not have to worry about the TT stages in the tour this year.

mr_goo

iainf72 wrote:

Hmmm. I think while both of them are in the same race there could be problems, regardless of team.

They're mentally weak though. Come up against someone like Contador and they will lose the head battle.

I don't blame them for LBL. There was nothing they could do

Agreed. Bertie is far more ruthless. And has the advantage of turbocharged quarter pounders from the team chef.

iainf72

Mr Goo wrote:

Agreed. Bertie is far more ruthless. And has the advantage of turbocharged quarter pounders from the team chef.

Indeed. But bert isn't the only one! Basso or Evans would be better head wise if their physical condition was good. And if Andy was castin the role of main fave, feel it would be worse

Knocking the beers and tabs etc would also be a good idea

frenchfighter

If Basso doesn't have poor form or illness I think he will take the Schlecks to the cleaners overall. I really hope he wins the Tour, I will be rooting for King of the Race Face if Contador isn't riding and then wouldn't mind if he won.

Andy is actually aggressive on the climbs and has the legs to hold it.

mr_goo

iainf72 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Agreed. Bertie is far more ruthless. And has the advantage of turbocharged quarter pounders from the team chef.

Indeed. But bert isn't the only one! Basso or Evans would be better head wise if their physical condition was good. And if Andy was castin the role of main fave, feel it would be worse

Knocking the beers and tabs etc would also be a good idea

Basso is def a good bet for TdF, plus has good supporting cast in the Liquigas squad. Evans possibly a podium place, if he doesn't fall of his bike!
Will Bertie be there?

frenchfighter

frenchfighter

Profiles of mountain stages for this year's TdF:








Comparing them to the Giro's sufferfest of summit finishes is laughable but that is the subject of another thread...

TT wise there is a 23km TTT and a 41km TT coming right before the end which favours Andy giving the recovery element.

andyrac

Whether they have the ability is one thing - however they haven't, or don't seem to have the winning mentality - they don't seem to have any 'ticker/ mongrel', as the Aussies would say. Too many times they've stuck together unwilling to make a move.
However, if Andy manages to win one, I think he'll win a few - it's getting the first one - how many seconds/thirds has he had now??

RichN95.

frenchfighter wrote:

TT wise there is a 23km TTT and a 41km TT coming right before the end which favours Andy giving the recovery element.

I'm not so sure about that (re Andy v Basso). Liquigas are one of the best TTT teams around. Old Saxo were good, but Leopard aren't old Saxo, even if they have mostly the same riders.

If he peaks correctly, I'd make Gesink a big factor too.

finchy

Schleck has finished 2nd in the Giro to Danilo di Luca and 2nd in the TdF to Alberto Contador. Assuming Contador's ban comes through, that's 3 GTs in which he's only been beaten by convicted dopers. And he's only 25, not quite yet at his peak, whereas AC is 28 now.

He's already got a monument and 2 TdF stage wins, he might even have won the Tour last year were it not for the incident with the chain - all this talk about not having a winner's mentality is more than a bit inaccurate.

So yes, he can win a GT.

dougzz

I think Andy can and will win this years TdF. But to qualify that I think he does lack a something in the 'bottle' dept. To win he's going to need things to go right for him, and some luck. I don't think he has Bertie's killer instinct. The way Bertie resisted the whole Lance/JB power play in 09 was real mental strength and determination, I can't see Andy having that yet, but this is his year to step up and quiet the doubters.

rick_chasey

Yeah Andy will.

He's 25.

He's got at least 7 or 8 attempts at it.

peddlefever

I think Andy has a winner's mentality, but it is just a bit different. He just seems to be less intense and a more relaxed person in general than a guy like Contador, but I don't doubt that he will go for the win if he has a chance. It just isn't as apparent that he is pushing as hard as riders like Contador or Gilbert because while he attacks they are generally more gradual and not as instantly brutal.

At Liege this year he had nothing left in the tank, so it really made no sense for him to make an attack Gilbert would just laugh off. I don't think he didn't have a winner's mentality, but was just realistic about the form he was in and the form Gilbert was in.

Jez mon

I think Andy could win the giro one year, but the Tour is a different beast and fundamentally (in recent years at least) seems to favour GT riders who are very strong TTers and strong climbers, rather than very strong climbers and OK TTers.

Having said that, he is definitely good enough to win the tour, and if luck goes his way and not Clenbutador's then I can see him in yellow come paris!

RichN95.

Jez mon wrote:

I think Andy could win the giro one year, but the Tour is a different beast and fundamentally (in recent years at least) seems to favour GT riders who are very strong TTers and strong climbers, rather than very strong climbers and OK TTers.

He's really not that bad at TTs though. He's better than a lot of GC candidates and comfortably better than Frank. He might lose a minute or so to someone like Menchov or Wiggins, but nothing he can't get back elsewhere.

P_Tucker

I hope you didn't imply that Wiggins is a GC contender...

I reckon Andy will win the Tour this year, whether Contador is there or not. There I said it.

domhopson

frenchfighter wrote:

If Basso doesn't have poor form or illness I think he will take the Schlecks to the cleaners overall. I really hope he wins the Tour, I will be rooting for King of the Race Face if Contador isn't riding and then wouldn't mind if he won.

Andy is actually aggressive on the climbs and has the legs to hold it.

Agreed. If Contador isn't riding Basso will win. The Schlecks only have their 1 - 2 tactic and nothing else.

Lightning

I think Andy will win eventually (this year maybe). He's getting better at TTs and he's a really strong climber at his peak. Andy vs Basso should be interesting.

cogidubnus

I think Andy was released in the Tour last year by Frank crashing out. I think it will be same old same old this year if Andy and Frank both make it to the mountains.

Basso is my tip if Bertie is found guilty by CAS

rick_chasey

domhopson wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

If Basso doesn't have poor form or illness I think he will take the Schlecks to the cleaners overall. I really hope he wins the Tour, I will be rooting for King of the Race Face if Contador isn't riding and then wouldn't mind if he won.

Andy is actually aggressive on the climbs and has the legs to hold it.

Agreed. If Contador isn't riding Basso will win. The Schlecks only have their 1 - 2 tactic and nothing else.

Massively disagree.

Andy Schleck is the fastest over 3 weeks after Contador, and Andy is only 25. Basso is what, 33?

Andy's easily got 8 seasons to give the Tour a good go, and after Contador, he's as talented as anyone.

Tactics are overrated when it comes to GC anyway. The only race I can think of which was genuinely affected by tactics was '08 with Sastre, and that was only because there clearly wasn't someone with enough talent to grab the race by the scruff of the neck.

Andy easily has that ability to, and is going to get better rather than worse.

edhornby

I think last year proved that frank is best suited to be a domestique de luxe for his brother, Andy was clearly closer in performance to bertie because the team was riding for him alone

I think that Andy would have the edge over basso, as much as I enjoy watching Ivan I think that he may not have enough of a time cushion when the climbs come

I just want the tour to be exciting...

iainf72

edhornby wrote:

I think that Andy would have the edge over basso, as much as I enjoy watching Ivan I think that he may not have enough of a time cushion when the climbs come

Hmmm - I think a complete on-form Basso would climb as well as Schleck. Basso is a lot better under pressure than Andy as well. Remember when he fell on the strade bianchi stage last year and managed to limit his losses despite it not being his kind of thing at all. Contrast Andy dropping his chain and freaking out.

But there are others. Evans would be difficult to get rid of if he's going well, Gesink and a few others are improving.

Also, if there is no Bert, Andy is the outstanding fave and lEoTuRD will be very busy trying to control the race.

andyp

They'll have no trouble controlling the race, 'Don' Cancellara will tell everyone what to do.

inkyfingers

Agree with you Iain, if Basso brings his 2010 Giro form he'll be hard to beat. Andy Schlecks best hope is to keep attacking as although Basso is clearly a great climber even on the super steep stuff, he's probably not able to accelerate in the same way that a mountain goat like Schleck can. Andy will need to keep accelerating and hope he can gap Basso before his big engine gets spinning.

Having said that, the climbs in this years Tour are tougher than '10, but nowhere near as tough as the Giro last year. If Evans brings his best I think he'll be able to closely match both Basso and Schleck and take back a bit in the individual TT. It could all come down to that Team TT, if one of the favourites teams has a stinker there it could finish their chances.

Thats assuming that Bertie gets his ban, if he rides then I think he'll win.

RichN95.

If Contador's not there, put me down as another backing Basso. I'd expect Schleck A, Evans, Gesink and Sanchez S to be the other main players. Maybe VdB too.