Philippe Gilbert

pb21

Is he clean?

If it were another rider who had just one four race on the trot in the manner he has a lot of people would be a lot more vociferous than they are at the moment. It’s because he has been extremely vocal in the past regarding doping, at least for a pro, that we assume he is now not on the juice.

Her has for a long time been my favourite rider to watch for obvious reasons, but now I cant help thinking its possibly too good to be true.

Tusher

His progression has been steady- he was known to be talented as a neo-pro, he's about the right age to start peaking.......so far, so good.

But I do agree that there are other riders who would immediately arouse suspicion had they had a similar week.

sherer

well no one really knows. Don't really want this place to end up like the Clinic over on CN though where every rider who wins a race or stage gets a tread created saying they aren't clean.

Like Cancellara he's been a talen for awhile and a joy to watch. Lets hope he's clean and just enjoy until we hear otherwise

ozzzyosborn206

he is probably on the juice but then just as likely as half the rest of them so lets just enjoy the show they put on

cougie

As they say he has been vociferously anti doping in the past - so I'll hope he hasn't changed his spots and is still clean and enjoying perfect form - but that shouldn't last.

cogidubnus

I think they should all publish their biological passports like Wiggins did after the 2009 Tour. Would prove for certain who's clean or not.

But you are right Oz lets enjoy the show

ozzzyosborn206

Cogidubnus wrote:

I think they should all publish their biological passports like Wiggins did after the 2009 Tour. Would prove for certain who's clean or not.

But you are right Oz lets enjoy the show

and power outputs, that is apparently the clearest way to tell if someone is doping or not provided you understand what you are looking at

JamieW

well i have really enjoyed watching him. as he seems to focus on these races is it a wonder if he peaks for them? Still think Cancellara could easily have won both many of the classics if not marked out so much.

have to say i have enjoyed the show. cant wait until next year for the classics again

jerry3571

It seems he has got some good people around him so he can pull out these results without the alarm bells being rung.
This is our dilema we are faced with being watchers of these races. They say to look at the future, you need to look at the past and looking at the previous LBL winners, the present and future shows we are in for a "Rough Ride". :?

-Jerry

TheYorkshireMan

If others are still doping - and there is no real reason to think they are not - his dominance must raise questions. If he has 'got on a program' it is ironic given the way he has been portrayed as being the victim of doping in the past. For example, in The Times in 2005 Kimmage wrote

He’s a bright young star of cycling, but Philippe Gilbert believes that his talent will not be enough for him to make it big

...it is not an ideal world, and the grim facts of this very grim sport are that Philippe Gilbert’s dreams have already ended.

...“I can tell you now,” Gilbert said, “that I will never reach the level I saw at the Dauphine. It doesn’t matter how hard I train; I’m never going to get there. I understand now that I am never going to win the Tour de France — maybe I will shine for a day or two, but that’s it.”

Surprised at his response, the journalist asked whether Gilbert was implying what he thought he was implying — that the cancer of doping was still prevalent in the sport. Gilbert affirmed that he was.

...Imagine what it must feel right now to be Christophe Bassons. Imagine how Philippe Gilbert will suffer in the next three weeks. Imagine a dream you’ve held since childhood dying before it begins. Allez, Philippe, bonne chance.

A couple of weeks later Jeremy Whittle wrote

This has been a hard and fast Tour and the stages through the Massif Central are taking their toll. Yesterday, as the peloton climbed towards the striking edifice of the new Millau viaduct, the imperious Armstrong laughed and joked, mimicking the suffering of others. “I wanted to throw my water bottle at him,” Philippe Gilbert, the Belgian who is making his Tour debut and who is languishing in 71st place, more than two hours behind the Texan, said.

andyp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FgtgoO6 ... r_embedded

Snorebens

“Hello, I’m Philippe Gilbert. Cycling is my whole life. I’ve been passionate about it for 15 years and a pro for nine… Be strong, respect the rules and win without doping“.

Tusher

sherer wrote:

well no one really knows. Don't really want this place to end up like the Clinic over on CN though where every rider who wins a race or stage gets a tread created saying they aren't clean.

Absolutely.

Ash_

Gilbert winning is not just about Gilbert though, is it?

Lotto seem to have transformed themselves from a disorganised gang of riders (which they have been on and off for the last three decades or so, in various forms) into a real team. For example, when it mattered in Fleche Wallone, they were all at the front controlling things the second time up the Muur. Lotto kept things together until the end so Gilbert could concentrate on the winning uphill sprint.

It's not just an improvement we're seeing in Gilbert, but an improvement of the whole Lotto team, of which Gilbert is the most obvious part.

It's all good I reckon - a few more riders like Gilbert, a few more teams like Lotto, a few less riders like Di Luca and a bit less 'True Racing' (I still don't know what that means, does anyone?) and the sport will be the better for it, I hope.

wicked

Ash_ wrote:

Gilbert winning is not just about Gilbert though, is it?

Lotto seem to have transformed themselves from a disorganised gang of riders (which they have been on and off for the last three decades or so, in various forms) into a real team. For example, when it mattered in Fleche Wallone, they were all at the front controlling things the second time up the Muur. Lotto kept things together until the end so Gilbert could concentrate on the winning uphill sprint.

It's not just an improvement we're seeing in Gilbert, but an improvement of the whole Lotto team, of which Gilbert is the most obvious part.

It's all good I reckon - a few more riders like Gilbert, a few more teams like Lotto, a few less riders like Di Luca and a bit less 'True Racing' (I still don't know what that means, does anyone?) and the sport will be the better for it, I hope.

A certain whinging colonial leaving anything to do with that?

P_Tucker

Ash_ wrote:

Gilbert winning is not just about Gilbert though, is it?

Lotto seem to have transformed themselves from a disorganised gang of riders (which they have been on and off for the last three decades or so, in various forms) into a real team. For example, when it mattered in Fleche Wallone, they were all at the front controlling things the second time up the Muur. Lotto kept things together until the end so Gilbert could concentrate on the winning uphill sprint.

It's not just an improvement we're seeing in Gilbert, but an improvement of the whole Lotto team, of which Gilbert is the most obvious part.

It's all good I reckon - a few more riders like Gilbert, a few more teams like Lotto, a few less riders like Di Luca and a bit less 'True Racing' (I still don't know what that means, does anyone?) and the sport will be the better for it, I hope.

Er, Gilbert has spent all spring complaining that his team are shit, most recently in LBL where he was apparently isolated with 85km to go. In Amstel, he had to chase Schleck himself FFS. The only reason they looked half decent at F-W is that its a much easier course and a few of them actually managed not to get dropped.

Cumulonimbus

Fleche Wallonnee was very slow this year meaning there were a lot of riders left at the end, not just Lotto.

http://bikeraceinfo.com/classics/Fleche ... index.html

LBL saw Gilbert left with just vanendert a long way out - they were the only Lotto finishers to finish - but that was partly due to the Lotto team having to chase a big break that was going fast. None of the others would help as Gilbert was the big favourite.

Vanendert has been a bit of a new name to me. He didnt race much last year though maybe due to injury?

If we are looking at the Lotto team then Greipel hasnt set the world on fire since leaving the HTC train.

P_Tucker

Cumulonimbus wrote:

If we are looking at the Lotto team then Greipel hasnt set the world on fire since leaving the HTC train.

To be fair, he hardly set the world alight even with the HTC train.

Cumulonimbus

P_Tucker wrote:

Cumulonimbus wrote:

If we are looking at the Lotto team then Greipel hasnt set the world on fire since leaving the HTC train.

To be fair, he hardly set the world alight even with the HTC train.

True, i was just being a bit sarcastic. he hasnt done as well as last year yet but the big challenges are still to come, its the big tours where his performances will really matter. Been good to see him being active in some of the earlier classics rather than waiting for the sprint.

As we are talking about teams then this cyclingnews link is interesting

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/future- ... -liege-win

I remember seeing somewhere that FdJ went to the front for a while on Sunday to help with the chase. Possibly linked?

FransJacques

I brought this up on the GW spoiler thread after it sounded too easy. I reckon he's cleaner than the other riders i mentioned below.

But it's just a gut feel, based on the same history and long lead up to his succcess others have mentioned

---

FransJacques
Posted Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:02 pm
frenchfighter wrote:
Oh my goodness, he is so ridiculously strong..

Man it sounded good, really want to see the 1 hour summary show.

He *is* strong - I just hope he doesn't end up turning in a positive drug test.

When I think back to Bettini, Bartoli, Casagrande, VDB, Furlan, Camenzind, Ricco and all the others who looked so dominant, I've grown jaded.

dougzz

P_Tucker wrote:

Cumulonimbus wrote:

If we are looking at the Lotto team then Greipel hasnt set the world on fire since leaving the HTC train.

To be fair, he hardly set the world alight even with the HTC train.

He did in sh*t little races

frenchfighter

If Gilbert is positive this sport is going to take a big blow. For now, long live the legend. Apparently he trains like a beast. He has been a top rider all his career, winning a decent amount then wins getting bigger and bigger, especially with the removal of these dopers making the playng field better (like with Evans).

http://philippegilbert.com/

frenchfighter

jimmythecuckoo

pb21 wrote:

Is he clean?

I think yes. But something Sean Kelly said in commentary about him linking up with Vino at Astana next season naturally set alarms ringing.

gsk82

What a ridiculous thread. Maybe i'm not as paranoid as the rest of you with me only really getting into cycling the last couple of years, but there's absolutely nothing to suggest that he's a cheat at all.

Some people need to get a grip. Cycling won't lose it's doping image as long as fans question everyone who's winning races.

Cumulonimbus

gsk82 wrote:

What a ridiculous thread. Maybe i'm not as paranoid as the rest of you with me only really getting into cycling the last couple of years, but there's absolutely nothing to suggest that he's a cheat at all.

Some people need to get a grip. Cycling won't lose it's doping image as long as fans question everyone who's winning races.

How is this a ridiculous thread? The OP said that someone winning a lot of races in a row causes him to have doubts. Many other people have generally echoed this view. Given the history of cycling and how he has been whizzing up climbs i dont see how that viewpoint can be called ridiculous.

P_Tucker

gsk82 wrote:

What a ridiculous thread. Maybe i'm not as paranoid as the rest of you with me only really getting into cycling the last couple of years, but there's absolutely nothing to suggest that he's a cheat at all.

Some people need to get a grip. Cycling won't lose it's doping image as long as fans question everyone who's winning races.

He's a professional cyclist who wins big races. Its more likely than not he's a doper. Not that I care TBH, it's just entertainment.

No_Ta_Doctor

I'm inclined to believe he's clean, though I wouldn't bet any serious money on it.

I think part of the progress against doping has been to provide a performance cap for dopers. Yes there are plenty still at it, but they can't gain as much by it as they used to.

The interview quoted above is quite telling in that it was from 2005. A lot of hemocrit has flowed under the bridge since then. The biological passport has only been comparing blood values since 2008....

gsk82

Cumulonimbus wrote:

gsk82 wrote:

What a ridiculous thread. Maybe i'm not as paranoid as the rest of you with me only really getting into cycling the last couple of years, but there's absolutely nothing to suggest that he's a cheat at all.

Some people need to get a grip. Cycling won't lose it's doping image as long as fans question everyone who's winning races.

How is this a ridiculous thread? The OP said that someone winning a lot of races in a row causes him to have doubts. Many other people have generally echoed this view. Given the history of cycling and how he has been whizzing up climbs i dont see how that viewpoint can be called ridiculous.

that's exactlywhat's ridiculous about it

ms_tree

TheYorkshireMan wrote:

If others are still doping - and there is no real reason to think they are not - his dominance must raise questions. If he has 'got on a program' it is ironic given the way he has been portrayed as being the victim of doping in the past. For example, in The Times in 2005 Kimmage wrote

He’s a bright young star of cycling, but Philippe Gilbert believes that his talent will not be enough for him to make it big

...it is not an ideal world, and the grim facts of this very grim sport are that Philippe Gilbert’s dreams have already ended.

...“I can tell you now,” Gilbert said, “that I will never reach the level I saw at the Dauphine. It doesn’t matter how hard I train; I’m never going to get there. I understand now that I am never going to win the Tour de France — maybe I will shine for a day or two, but that’s it.”

Surprised at his response, the journalist asked whether Gilbert was implying what he thought he was implying — that the cancer of doping was still prevalent in the sport. Gilbert affirmed that he was.

...Imagine what it must feel right now to be Christophe Bassons. Imagine how Philippe Gilbert will suffer in the next three weeks. Imagine a dream you’ve held since childhood dying before it begins. Allez, Philippe, bonne chance.

A couple of weeks later Jeremy Whittle wrote

This has been a hard and fast Tour and the stages through the Massif Central are taking their toll. Yesterday, as the peloton climbed towards the striking edifice of the new Millau viaduct, the imperious Armstrong laughed and joked, mimicking the suffering of others. “I wanted to throw my water bottle at him,” Philippe Gilbert, the Belgian who is making his Tour debut and who is languishing in 71st place, more than two hours behind the Texan, said.

That was 6 years ago. A lot's changed in that time, not least the passport. Anyone who thinks he's dirty needs their head read, frankly.[/b]

dougzz

If you're going to back one cyclist to be clean then Gilbert's as good a bet as any in my view, but I don't think it's ridiculous to question. As for those of you that claim certainty, regarding any cyclist's dope free credentials, you may have some some bad news regarding Father Christmas, but I'll leave it to your parents to fill you in