Climbing wheels

markwb79

Hi,

I am riding La Marmotte this year, and thought that I would treat myself to a new set of wheels for the event.

Does anyone have any recommendation/advice on a good set of wheels? Budget is approx €700.

Cheers
Mark

TMR

Mavic Ksyrium Elite would be my choice.

manxben

+1 for the Ksyrium Elite.

plus you save about 300£ to spend on bling 8)

Andrew_J

Ksyrium SL's ... or Elite

glasgowbhoy

Climbing wheels? It's the descents I'm more concerned about with the wheels, especially the rims overheating on the Marmotte. Even 2 weeks ago on the Lakeland Loop there were a lot of punctures from rims overheating on the descents of Harnott and Wrynose.

TMR

Glasgowbhoy wrote:

Climbing wheels? It's the descents I'm more concerned about with the wheels, especially the rims overheating on the Marmotte. Even 2 weeks ago on the Lakeland Loop there were a lot of punctures from rims overheating on the descents of Harnott and Wrynose.

On tubulars I presume?

rolf_f

Glasgowbhoy wrote:

Climbing wheels? It's the descents I'm more concerned about with the wheels, especially the rims overheating on the Marmotte. Even 2 weeks ago on the Lakeland Loop there were a lot of punctures from rims overheating on the descents of Harnott and Wrynose.

I'm surprised - I wouldn't have thought the rims would get that hot on either. Hardknott too slow and short and Wrynose gives plenty of opportunities for letting the bike fly.

Monty Dog

Some of the Lakeland descents are the worst descents for braking - the road surface is 'rippled' make it very difficult to let the bike run - the bit after the ascent of Hardknot towards Cockley Beck is awful. The worst culprits for heat-induced blow-outs are ally/carbon hybrid clinchers rims, particularly with latex tubes - they are very poor at loosing heat. Back to wheel recommendations - you want something stiff and light - I'd suggest Campagnolo Neutrons - the low rim mass means they spin-up quicker than a heavier rim like a Ksyrium.

glasgowbhoy

The Mad Rapper wrote:

Glasgowbhoy wrote:

Climbing wheels? It's the descents I'm more concerned about with the wheels, especially the rims overheating on the Marmotte. Even 2 weeks ago on the Lakeland Loop there were a lot of punctures from rims overheating on the descents of Harnott and Wrynose.

On tubulars I presume?

Looked like clinchers to me.

glasgowbhoy

Monty Dog wrote:

Some of the Lakeland descents are the worst descents for braking - the road surface is 'rippled' make it very difficult to let the bike run - the bit after the ascent of Hardknot towards Cockley Beck is awful. The worst culprits for heat-induced blow-outs are ally/carbon hybrid clinchers rims, particularly with latex tubes - they are very poor at loosing heat. Back to wheel recommendations - you want something stiff and light - I'd suggest Campagnolo Neutrons - the low rim mass means they spin-up quicker than a heavier rim like a Ksyrium.

Pretty much sums it up Rolf.

rolf_f

Glasgowbhoy wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

Some of the Lakeland descents are the worst descents for braking - the road surface is 'rippled' make it very difficult to let the bike run - the bit after the ascent of Hardknot towards Cockley Beck is awful. The worst culprits for heat-induced blow-outs are ally/carbon hybrid clinchers rims, particularly with latex tubes - they are very poor at loosing heat. Back to wheel recommendations - you want something stiff and light - I'd suggest Campagnolo Neutrons - the low rim mass means they spin-up quicker than a heavier rim like a Ksyrium.

Pretty much sums it up Rolf.

I suppose when I did Hardknott it was on an MTB so the surfaces all seemed mirror smooth I'll find out how that translates to one of my road bikes in just over two weeks. I do tend not to hold the brakes on for long though anyway - a driving habit that has passed over to my cycling.

+1 for Monty Dog re Campag Neutrons. I don't know anything about the Mavics but my Neutrons really do seem to make a difference on the climbs compared to the Vento Reactions. They are madly light.

markwb79

never thought about the over heating part. Its my first Marmotte, I think I might be a nervous decenter to start with at least.

Campag wheels when you are running Ultegra though?!

rowman

If its your first Marmotte I would concentrate on having the correct gearing. When climbing alpe d'huez in the heat of the afternoon with 100 very hard miles in your legs you will be glad of a granny gear.

Have you considered 'Pro-Lite Bracciano Clincher'? from memory I believe they did well in one of the C+ tests and can be purchased for £250?

markwb79

rowman wrote:

If its your first Marmotte I would concentrate on having the correct gearing. When climbing alpe d'huez in the heat of the afternoon with 100 very hard miles in your legs you will be glad of a granny gear.

Have you considered 'Pro-Lite Bracciano Clincher'? from memory I believe they did well in one of the C+ tests and can be purchased for £250?

Not one bit of me thinks that its going to be easy!

hammerite

I'm kind of in the market for climbing wheels with an upcoming foray into the Alps planned. Interested by the Neutrons, especially the price they are on Ribble.

Surprised no one has mentioned some handbuilts from someone like http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/wheelprices.htm. Can anyone say the pros and cons of going for say these Neutrons over a light set of wheels from Wheelsmith?

glasgowbhoy

.[/quote]

I suppose when I did Hardknott it was on an MTB so the surfaces all seemed mirror smooth I'll find out how that translates to one of my road bikes in just over two weeks. I do tend not to hold the brakes on for long though anyway - a driving habit that has passed over to my cycling.

.[/quote]

You'll be off roading on those descents on the Fred if you're not pretty much 'on' the brakes throughout those descents. That was a dry day for the Lakeland. I'm just praying that it's not wet on the Fred or there'll be carnage all over the passes

Handbuilts are a good choice, especially on our roads. That's why they're my choice.
The DRC rims don't seem to overheat too badly and the hope hubs keep things pretty smooth. Well built and bombproof and come in around £300.

Having the legs to grind out big climbs and the power to weight ratio is the key anyway. A few grams off the wheels aren't going to make a huge amount of difference half way up the Galibier when your lungs are rattling off your teeth and you can barely pedal anymore

Ciclicasati

Have used both the ksyrium elites and ES (same as SL pretty much) for climbing and the ES were much much stiffer (elites were old style though).
With a £700 budget buy the wheels you like the most- physiologically you will feel happier with some nice kit and it’ll might just give you a lift on the day. But +1 for sorting gearing. Don’t know what the gradients are like or your fitness/weight but I’d max out with 34-27 just so you have options (triple would probably be nice but im too much of a poser).

Neutrons are nice and light as the rims are so low profile but im not sure they’d be as good as a sturdier wheel if you are on the more ‘powerful’ side.
Further options Shamal Ultra, hand builts using 27mm Kinlin rims (420g ish) and tune mig mag hubs or similar, sapim cx rays would come in around 1400g and be very nice.

TimB34

Monty Dog wrote:

The worst culprits for heat-induced blow-outs are ally/carbon hybrid clinchers rims, particularly with latex tubes - they are very poor at loosing heat.

Errr argh hold on - that would mean that the Dura-ace C24 clinchers are actually a poor choice for Alpine sportives, as they have a very small amount of alu rim compared to a more traditional wheel??

Given that I'm looking at getting a pair of these for the missus, to use for EXACTLY that purpose, does this mean I should think again? Would something like Neutrons/Fulcrum Racing0/kinlin xr-300s be a better choice for long descents?

mroli

@hammerite - I've spoken to him and he actually recommends not going "as light" as possible as if you go too light (ie with too low a spoke count and with a v lightweight rim), you risk get an increased amount of "flex" and potential brake rub out of your wheel - which will hold you back a damn sight more than a couple of extra grams....

hammerite

mroli thanks for that, not something I'd thought of.

Anonymous

Stiffness is king in the alps. IMO and E.
I took Open Pro 32/28 hole hand builts.
The Ksyrium SL or even better, if you can get a good deal on some R-SYS, would be a good bet due to their stiffness and weight.

The R-SYS, whilst as aero as a parachute (not an issue if you are a nervous descender) are fabulous, mega stiff but feel smooooooth...

Ciclicasati

This isn’t actually true. Well it is but its exaggerated. Every rim will get hot under extensive braking. I’d say a carbon clincher with alloy rims is no more susceptible to a blow out a standard alloy clincher. I wouldn’t call them culprits. You’d be very unlucky to get a blow out. You’ll feel your ride getting pretty hard as the pressure builds up in your tyre. If you’re really worried just let a small a mount of air out.

Pretre

Ciclicasati wrote:

This isn’t actually true. Well it is but its exaggerated. Every rim will get hot under extensive braking. I’d say a carbon clincher with alloy rims is no more susceptible to a blow out a standard alloy clincher. I wouldn’t call them culprits. You’d be very unlucky to get a blow out. You’ll feel your ride getting pretty hard as the pressure builds up in your tyre. If you’re really worried just let a small a mount of air out.

+1

I used C24 CL's a few years ago for some riding in the Pyrenees (doing my own thing - couple of col's a day) when it was 37C & had no issues whatsoever.

IanTrcp

Ciclicasati wrote:

This isn’t actually true. Well it is but its exaggerated. Every rim will get hot under extensive braking. I’d say a carbon clincher with alloy rims is no more susceptible to a blow out a standard alloy clincher. I wouldn’t call them culprits. You’d be very unlucky to get a blow out. You’ll feel your ride getting pretty hard as the pressure builds up in your tyre. If you’re really worried just let a small a mount of air out.

+2. I've used C24's for 2 Etapes without any probs at all. They're great - light, stiff, quiet and comfortable.

It will be interesting to see how they compare with the new R-Sys's sitting in my garage....

Brommers76

In the alps last year I was on DA C24, mate had the Ksyrium SL, another had Camp Bora's. No issues on any of them. We aren't pro's by any stretch but most of the descents you are not on the brakes constantly as the road surface is so good and steepness isn't extreme. We are all pretty lightweight so the lighter the wheel the better for going up and none of us had brake rub out the saddle.

I think sometimes we overthink these things. A few others were on £600 bikes and the only reason they were slower up the alp was because they were not as fit and weigh 15Kg more than me.

Canny Jock

Monty Dog wrote:

Back to wheel recommendations - you want something stiff and light - I'd suggest Campagnolo Neutrons - the low rim mass means they spin-up quicker than a heavier rim like a Ksyrium.

+1 for Neutrons, lovely wheels and well under budget.

hammerite

Neutron or Neutron Ultras?

Monty Dog

Neutrons: there's little difference between the two - its the same rim, just the Ultra uses a carbon-bodied hub and some come with ceramic bearings.

Re comments on carbon/alloy hybrid rims - why do manufacturers of latex tubes suggest you don't use them then because of heat build-up if it wasn't a problem? Maybe the DA wheels are better, but it was known problems with original 404 clinchers.

marin_maniac

For hand builts, have a look at the Stans Alpha rim.

With sensible spoke count and light hubs, you could be looking at a wheelset in the region of 1200g.

turnerjohn

NapoleonD wrote:

Stiffness is king in the alps. IMO and E.
I took Open Pro 32/28 hole hand builts.
The Ksyrium SL or even better, if you can get a good deal on some R-SYS, would be a good bet due to their stiffness and weight.

The R-SYS, whilst as aero as a parachute (not an issue if you are a nervous descender) are fabulous, mega stiff but feel smooooooth...

+1 they are soooo light accelerate like nothings there and strangly comfortable .... just be careful with the carbon spokes....shimano XTR pedals like trying to clip into them :oops:

hammerite

thanks Monty Dog I did wonder what the difference was apart from 80g and £120 (going by Ribble prices).