Descents (SPD's vs Flats)

projectsome

Is there much difference in techniques? I'll eventually be making the switch

Herbie The Dog

From my experience there's no difference as the important thing is the position of your body during the descent more than the position of your feet. If you assume the neutral/attack position your feet should be in the same position whether on flats or spds.

But...give it a few minutes and loads of people will be along to say one is better than the other.

rockrider1234

I found on fast bumpy trails my feet were leaving the peddles, probably due to lack of skill, so SPD's sorted that out for me. But at slow speeds when I come to a sudden halt due to a rock, root or rough ground I find I cannot put my foot down with ease so sometimes fall over. :oops:

cee

i recently switched from flats to spds....mostly because i couldn't get a set of flat shoes that suited the riding i do in the places i do....long story....already been through it in another thread!

so far....not really noticing any difference whatsoever.

ta.

C

John0611

I have recently made the switch myself and a few of my friends and several members of the public have had a few laughs at my expensive since.
One thing i found was that i instinctivly lifted the back wheel too much when trying the clear obsticals which has lead to my back wheel being a long way above my front and my a**e going like a rabbits nose. Also had a few times when iv come off and my feet stayed clipped into the bike which was quite painfull.
Alltogether though, im going to stay with it, once I've got used to it I'm sure it'l make me a better rider, I might end up being fractionally slower downhill but uphill it makes all the difference!

Anonymous

projectsome wrote:

Is there much difference in techniques

No.
If your technique is sorted on flats, then you will be sorted on SPDs.
If your technique is lacking on flats, you're going to get hurt on SPDs.

John0611

If your technique is lacking on flats, you're going to get hurt on SPDs.

that expalins it :oops:

projectsome

yeehaamcgee wrote:

projectsome wrote:

Is there much difference in techniques

No.
If your technique is sorted on flats, then you will be sorted on SPDs.
If your technique is lacking on flats, you're going to get hurt on SPDs.

This helps muchly.

jairaj

totally agree with Yeeha's comment.

I cannot think of anything that is done differently using SPD or flat peddles. The techniques should be the same.

meesterbond

jairaj wrote:

totally agree with Yeeha's comment.

I cannot think of anything that is done differently using SPD or flat peddles. The techniques should be the same.

On flats I tend to have the pedal more central - more under the arch than the ball of the foot. With SPDs it's obviously fixed at a point further forward.

Not really a change in technique per se, you're still dropping your heels slightly and the rest of your body's set up the same etc, but can feel a bit strange to start with.

That said, many pedal with flats under the ball of your foot - use what feels right.

Thewaylander

I'd actually say yes there is a technical differnce

On flats my feet tend to angle down alot more than SPD to generate grip to lift the rear when hoping or so on, generating grip on flats is fairly different in my veiw.

But obviously people differ from me here.

pugaltitude

Toe clips.

Its still the future!!!!!

Northwind

SPDs can allow you to get away with some big skill gaps that flats won't... On flats you need to move with the bike at all times, keep the heels dropped, and generally keep yourself attached to the bike. With SPDs, you don't need to do this. Buuuuut, good riding is good riding regardless of what pedals you're on, if you ride "on" the bike and rely on SPDs to keep you on the back of it, you'll be upsetting the bike constantly and riding against it not with it.

Oh. And then there's bunnyhops

The Northern Monkey

yeehaamcgee wrote:

projectsome wrote:

Is there much difference in techniques

No.
If your technique is sorted on flats, then you will be sorted on SPDs.
If your technique is lacking on flats, you're going to get hurt on SPDs.

I strongly disagree with the above comment.

They are very different.

projectsome

I'll guess I'll soon find out...

rockmonkeysc

I much prefer flats for tech descents, much easier to dab a foot when the grip / talent runs out plus I find big flat pedals more comfortable & supportive when rattling through roots & rock gardens. Some DH racers do use SPD pedals, usually something like Crank Bros Mallets with a big platform.
SPD's are better for climbing which is the only reason I have them on my xc bike.

Kaise

i have ridden SPD for quite some time but i do find that i am slower on the decent, this maybe due to my lack in confidence of the pedal releasing when i need it too.

as i said in another thread i find it easier to get back to just getting out and riding on the flats. I just get on the bike and go, not have to think i need my SPD shoes and a pair of trainers at the other end - although, that said you can get some of these



supposed to be comfortable and not a pair of tap shoes when you get off and go to the pub after a ride

Thewaylander

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I SPD's are better for climbing which is the only reason I have them on my xc bike.

Offer true scientific proof of this you'd be amazed how hard it is to actually proove.

Anonymous

Thewaylander wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I SPD's are better for climbing which is the only reason I have them on my xc bike.

Offer true scientific proof of this you'd be amazed how hard it is to actually proove.

Before you jump on that bandwagon, he's not actually incorrect in what he says. The stifer interface between the sole of the shoe and the pedal means you transfer power more efficiently to the crank arm using SPDs. With flats, you expend a little more energy squashing and deforming the sole of the shoe.

Torres

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Thewaylander wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I SPD's are better for climbing which is the only reason I have them on my xc bike.

Offer true scientific proof of this you'd be amazed how hard it is to actually proove.

Before you jump on that bandwagon, he's not actually incorrect in what he says. The stifer interface between the sole of the shoe and the pedal means you transfer power more efficiently to the crank arm using SPDs. With flats, you expend a little more energy squashing and deforming the sole of the shoe.

Your foot is also "locked" in to what is arguably the most efficient position for transfering power to the pedals... but this opens up the old can of worms "do clips mask bad techneaque"

Anonymous

See, having your foot held in the most efficient position is not a "benefit" of SPDs. There is no reason you can;t do that on flats. What it is, is a side-effect.

Thewaylander

Surely though Yee, then that is a function of footware not the cleet

Also the lost energy must be lost as heat in the rubber with a softer sole? Which wouldn't work in this situation
I think your talking force over time because of compression(momentum), trying to think back to Degree physics first year lol.

And don't worry not jumping down anyones throat I'd just like to see mathmatical proof, because i don't think you could proove it certainly never felt different when i tried hehe.


but the thread is about technique anyways so think we are off topic so i will be quiet.

meesterbond

Please, dear god, let's not resurrect the 14 page 'debate' on the efficiency of SPDs!

armymankin

maybe i am still not good enough (and definitely not good enough),

i struggle with my flats on bumpy rocky rooty decent. i either fighting hard to keep the heels down and stay focus on gripping my pedals (very tired) or i simply loose them when speed picks up on big bounces and drops (and it hurts!!).

i know I should not blame the bike, but a hard-tail i have has a bouncy back. so without the rear shock the bounce transfers straight from the ground to my knees and hip without delay. sometime my body just not loose enough and deal with the quick transition.

therefore SPD is the solution. you could think of pedalling downing the descent and dont need to just focus on staying on the pedals anymore,

Anonymous

Thewaylander wrote:

Surely though Yee, then that is a function of footware not the cleet

Exactly. SPD is more than just the cleat. SPD shoes are almost universally far far stiffer than flats shoes.

OH NO Dan

My feet kept coming of the pedals on bumpy decents with flats (probably bad technique or crap pedals)

I find it easier on the ups with spd's. I also changed to multi directional release cleats and now I dont even realise I'm unclipping its just natural

Like anything, there will be 100 people that prefer flats, and 100 people that prefer spd's (spds are better though :P)

Thewaylander

Wasn't a debate, it was asking Yee a question His physics has been use far mroe recently than mine.

And i like to understand these things, it was purely a physics based question.

Anonymous

armymankin wrote:

maybe i am still not good enough (and definitely not good enough),

i struggle with my flats on bumpy rocky rooty decent. i either fighting hard to keep the heels down and stay focus on gripping my pedals (very tired) or i simply loose them when speed picks up on big bounces and drops (and it hurts!!).

i know I should not blame the bike, but a hard-tail i have has a bouncy back. so without the rear shock the bounce transfers straight from the ground to my knees and hip without delay. sometime my body just not loose enough and deal with the quick transition.

therefore SPD is the solution. you could think of pedalling downing the descent and dont need to just focus on staying on the pedals anymore,

No, SPD is not the solution in that case. SPD in your case is shying away from learning proper technique. Once you've got it nailed, there's no "I was too tired to think about my feet being on the pedals". It just happens, it becomes second nature, something you do without any thought at all.
If you're not absorbing the impact with your legs, and flowing with the bike, you're not in control.

schmako

I'm happy with either, I'd say I have more confidence when im riding with the flats though.

john74

with flats it hurts when your foot slips off and the pins on the pedal whack you in the shins. thats enough reason for me to use spuds.

Northwind

yeehaamcgee wrote:

No, SPD is not the solution in that case. SPD in your case is shying away from learning proper technique. <snip>If you're not absorbing the impact with your legs, and flowing with the bike, you're not in control.

Spot on, this. It's like fixing a bleeding wound by closing your eyes, the problem's still there, it's just not as obvious... But just because you're not falling off doesn't mean your footwork's not an issue.