WHY OH WHY MUST SOME CYCLISTS SWARM TO THE ASL AT ALL COSTS.

rjsterry

ndru wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

ndru wrote:

Perhaps it would be a good time to actually point it out to Boris, who said "If there were more cyclists, Cycle Superhighways would be separate lanes". Perhaps we've just reached the point where a bit of blue paint is not enough and a whole lane should be dedicated just to cyclists.

The words 'devil' and 'skating' spring to mind - the CS routes generally follow main roads along which there are frequent pinch points that can only really be sorted out by demolishing buildings to widen the road. That is not going to happen. London is never going to be like Copenhagen, however much we might want it to be.

I haven't checked all of CS7 but it seems to me that 2 lanes for traffic and 2 lanes for bicycles are easily doable on the whole route. If not logic would suggest that with numbers of cyclists that high we should have one lane for cars and two lanes for cyclists. I think the barrier is only in our minds.

CS3 is almost all of road - sure some bits are crap and should be upgraded, but it seems it can be done.

Sorry, I don't want to get into a tit for tat, but this is just not the case on the more southerly parts of CS7. The run through Tooting and Balham was mostly one wide-ish lane each way before the blue paint went in, with parking bays at regular intervals to service the shops that run along most of this stretch. Most of those shops don't have rear access, so they do need the parking bays. Then there's the bus stops. There isn't room for parking/bus stops AND a metre-wide CS lane AND a decent width traffic lane for anything more than a few hundred yards at a time. The current compromise of the parking/bus stops sharing the space with CS7 isn't great, but I can't see that there is another realistic option.

My main point is that once you have a few pinch points, the idea of the continuous cycling route falls apart and you are back to a series of short stretches of paint.

shouldbeinbed

controversial suggestion: get rid of ASL's. I remember one of the stories of death under HGV, 2 people, the lad survived, the girl didn't he was interviewed after the inquest saying that they were trying to get to the ASL but couldn't so just waited at the side of the truck.....

theres an argument to be had that no ASL might have meant they both survived intact.

Unfortunately i think it comes back to the simple fact that there are selfish impatient d**kheads and people without the experience to think through the consequences of their actions in every mode of transport.

Rather than cheap gimmicks like branded hats and tabards, organisations like the AA should be spending their money on campaigns & adverts educating everyone: in terms of the cycling element that would be raising the awareness of drivers of the harm they can do by simple impatience and to the 'born again' cyclist that they do not have a god given right or a magic pass to get to the front of every line of traffic and that the sky will not fall in if they wait in the queue.

Jay dubbleU

We don't have ASLs around here - so no problems

nation

I think you'd still get the same people doing it whether there was an ASL or not.

I see people filtering straight to the front of queues for dual carriageway roundabouts around here. I tend to filter until I'm a couple of sequences worth of cars back from the line and then take primary.

I'm amazed that some of these riders don't get hit, given that whent the traffic starts moving they're caught between two lanes of rapidly accelerating traffic, and the car on their right almost certainly doesn't know they're there.

DonDaddyD

rjsterry wrote:

ndru wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

ndru wrote:

Perhaps it would be a good time to actually point it out to Boris, who said "If there were more cyclists, Cycle Superhighways would be separate lanes". Perhaps we've just reached the point where a bit of blue paint is not enough and a whole lane should be dedicated just to cyclists.

The words 'devil' and 'skating' spring to mind - the CS routes generally follow main roads along which there are frequent pinch points that can only really be sorted out by demolishing buildings to widen the road. That is not going to happen. London is never going to be like Copenhagen, however much we might want it to be.

I haven't checked all of CS7 but it seems to me that 2 lanes for traffic and 2 lanes for bicycles are easily doable on the whole route. If not logic would suggest that with numbers of cyclists that high we should have one lane for cars and two lanes for cyclists. I think the barrier is only in our minds.

CS3 is almost all of road - sure some bits are crap and should be upgraded, but it seems it can be done.

Sorry, I don't want to get into a tit for tat, but this is just not the case on the more southerly parts of CS7. The run through Tooting and Balham was mostly one wide-ish lane each way before the blue paint went in, with parking bays at regular intervals to service the shops that run along most of this stretch. Most of those shops don't have rear access, so they do need the parking bays. Then there's the bus stops. There isn't room for parking/bus stops AND a metre-wide CS lane AND a decent width traffic lane for anything more than a few hundred yards at a time. The current compromise of the parking/bus stops sharing the space with CS7 isn't great, but I can't see that there is another realistic option.

My main point is that once you have a few pinch points, the idea of the continuous cycling route falls apart and you are back to a series of short stretches of paint.

Burntwood lane leading towards or from Nightingale Lane is a far easier road to navigate to get past Tooting. In fact I often wondered why Burntwood lane wasn't used as a Cycling Superhighway.

rjsterry

Burntwood Lane is a bit out of my way as I head down Mitcham Road from Tooting Broadway, but yes, I've seen it mentioned before as a nice route.

rick_chasey

If it gets to the point where there are seriously loads of bikes, then you'll all have to slow down < else you'll be the boy racer type of the pedal transport.

DonDaddyD

Rick Chasey wrote:

]





If it gets to the point where there are seriously loads of bikes, then you'll all have to slow down < else you'll be the boy racer type of the pedal transport.

Lets take the second photo.

I've got no problems with slowing down in that environment.

Firstly, those cyclists aren't sharing the road with motorised traffic. Your safest when travelling at or near the ambient speed of traffic. This is why overtaking can be tricky, if you're stuck behind a person going at sub 15mph and cars on your right travelling at 20 - 25mph. Then when you pull out wide to overtake the oncoming car has to slow down while you get your bike up to traffic speed, which can be tricky.

Secondly, they all seem to be giving each other plenty of space. No one is bunching up another person against a curb, drafting and as long as no one suddenly drifts wide without checking their shoulder then there is no issue.

richVSrich

at first i thought it would be cool that the new cycle superhighway will be opening this summer (the one running through wandsworth then along embankment)
but the sheer numbers of cyclists it seems to attract (funny that isnt it???) will potentially put me off...we shall see! i still need to get my bike back from the shop! (hopefully tomorrow!)

btw did anyone see the gadget show last week where they put 4 battery powered jet engines on a bike??? nice!!

bails87

Rick Chasey wrote:

else you'll be the boy racer type of the pedal transport.

:shock:
I hadn't thought of that!

=
?

DonDaddyD

I haven't been anywhere near the Embankment since 2010 summer.

Confusedboy

I am so glad I don't live, work, or have to ride a bike in Central London! I live in Cardiff, where there is still mostly enough room for the relatively low (at least in comparism to London) number of cyclists to ride at whatever speed they choose without getting in each others' way, just.

We still have our share of RLJ, pavement riders, wobblers, kerb huggers, and left filter bandits, but it is possible for a person such as myself of calm disposition to simply feel smugly superior to it all. I sometimes indulge myself in a sad, resigned, but wise sort of slow shake of the head to indicate my dissaproval and thier inferiority, but no more than that. I am sure one of Boris' superhighways would have me foaming at the mouth in seconds!

The answer so far as London is concerned may be to dedicate routes made up of full width proper roads exclusively to cyclists. Just saying.

bails87

I'm lucky if I see more than one other cyclist on my (15 mile) journey. The norm has upped to about three in the last 2 weeks of good weather. But there's no 'critical mass' here, I can assure you!

kelsen

DonDaddyD wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

]





If it gets to the point where there are seriously loads of bikes, then you'll all have to slow down < else you'll be the boy racer type of the pedal transport.

Lets take the second photo.

I've got no problems with slowing down in that environment.

Firstly, those cyclists aren't sharing the road with motorised traffic. Your safest when travelling at or near the ambient speed of traffic. This is why overtaking can be tricky, if you're stuck behind a person going at sub 15mph and cars on your right travelling at 20 - 25mph. Then when you pull out wide to overtake the oncoming car has to slow down while you get your bike up to traffic speed, which can be tricky.

Secondly, they all seem to be giving each other plenty of space. No one is bunching up another person against a curb, drafting and as long as no one suddenly drifts wide without checking their shoulder then there is no issue.

It's also a mindset. I imagine no-one in that picture is thinking 'must get to the front' or 'must scalp the 200 people in front of me'. Competitiveness accounts a lot for the silliness that goes on on our roads.

bails87

richVSrich wrote:

battery powered jet engines

Is there such a thing?

sketchley

Confusedboy wrote:

I am so glad I don't live, work, or have to ride a bike in Central London! I live in Cardiff, where there is still mostly enough room for the relatively low (at least in comparism to London) number of cyclists to ride at whatever speed they choose without getting in each others' way, just.

We still have our share of RLJ, pavement riders, wobblers, kerb huggers, and left filter bandits, but it is possible for a person such as myself of calm disposition to simply feel smugly superior to it all. I sometimes indulge myself in a sad, resigned, but wise sort of slow shake of the head to indicate my dissaproval and thier inferiority, but no more than that. I am sure one of Boris' superhighways would have me foaming at the mouth in seconds!

The answer so far as London is concerned may be to dedicate routes made up of full width proper roads exclusively to cyclists. Just saying.

Actually I find cycling in London easier than most other towns or even in the country. Why? Because drivers expect you to be there and the speed of traffic is generally not that quick. It's scary on a country lane with cars appearing at 60mph or cycling round a town like chatham where the car drivers do not expect a to see many if any bikes.

phy2sll2

Not sure about finding back roads to cut out the choke points. Setting of a half-hour earlier seems to work for me.

kurako

DonDaddyD wrote:

Burntwood lane leading towards or from Nightingale Lane is a far easier road to navigate to get past Tooting. In fact I often wondered why Burntwood lane wasn't used as a Cycling Superhighway.

Burntwood is narrow and congested at a the top (junction with Trinity). It can't handle a large number of cyclists. Fishponds runs parallel to CS7 and is quiet if you want to avoid the crowds on Tooting High Road. It's also a bit steeper so you can work on your climbing. Alternatively, go down Garratt Lane and avoid the whole shebang.

Stevo_666

Sketchley wrote:

Actually I find cycling in London easier than most other towns or even in the country. Why? Because drivers expect you to be there and the speed of traffic is generally not that quick. It's scary on a country lane with cars appearing at 60mph or cycling round a town like chatham where the car drivers do not expect a to see many if any bikes.

+1

Slower traffic speed and cars that expect cyclists to be around mean that London ain't that bad. Just keep your wits about you, look 'n' listen etc. That said, people who squeeze up the side of lorries & buses to get to the ASL do wind me up a bit. Darwinism in action in some cases...

sketchley

DonDaddyD wrote:

Burntwood lane leading towards or from Nightingale Lane is a far easier road to navigate to get past Tooting. In fact I often wondered why Burntwood lane wasn't used as a Cycling Superhighway.

Just looked at where this is. I could go this route. However if I was already on Garrat Lane I'd just head up to Wandworth and across Wandworth Bridge then on to Embankment. For all it's faults Embankment is a quick route.

davmaggs

Greg66 wrote:

I also hate tossers who decide that the best place to stand at the baggage carousel is between me and it, and (back in the day), tossers who think the best place to peruse videos in the video shop was between me and the shelf. These people deserve a footprint in the middle of their back.

I think that there is something in this.

There is a fair sized bit of the population that just aren't aware of other people at all and their tunnel vision means that they'll happily stand in front of the ticket barriers at a station in rush hour or block a busy entrance to a building and then get annoyed when people ask them to move. They just think don't care what anyone else wants to do.

It's the same trait for a lot of the ASL blockers who will recognise your bike/clothing as you pass them several times on a long road, but yet they still proceed to nudge past you at the lights even though they must know you'll only go around them again.

rick_chasey

Cambridge is worse.

Used to commute through the centre from one side to the other every day in '05 /'06 > that was already pretty lairy - been knocked off plenty of times etc.

Did a very smilar commute later when I did some temp work in '10 and f*ck me it was carnage. It was the same number of cars but quadruple the number of cyclists.

I remember back in the day reading that, per km cycled, Cambridge was worse then London - which I can believe just because of how narrow it all is > there quite literally isn't enough room for both.

The road rage also gets compounded by a town vs gown thing, with many inbred Fenland locals apparently finding some correlation between being on a bike and being associated with the university. I absolutely include bus drivers in that catagory.

But yeah, now the cyclists are crazy - I thought I was a nutter back in the day but my efforts then pale in comparison.

Sanderville

Greg66 wrote:

Usually at the ASL at the western end if Viccy Embankment, under Big Ben. You sit there, and some utter chob will insist on squeezing up the left so they can sit in the ASL right in front of me.

Not guilty but I am the chob who carefully moves across the pedestrian crossing to wait right on the front corner of the junction to turn right into Parliament Square. I do that to stop scooterists and motorbike couriers clipping me when they try to force their way round the lights first. I don't perturb other cyclists though.

I'm enormous, in a Night Vision jacket, sweating buckets, and I don't get there before 9am on a big, black Decathlon bedstead. Say hello!

And isn't the new bit of tarmac on Bridge Street lovely?

bigmat

rjsterry wrote:

Burntwood Lane is a bit out of my way as I head down Mitcham Road from Tooting Broadway, but yes, I've seen it mentioned before as a nice route.

Turn left at Tooting Bec, then right down either Franciscan Road or the one after - Rectory Lane or Church Lane I think. That will avoid all Tooting traffic.

bigmat

davmaggs wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

I also hate tossers who decide that the best place to stand at the baggage carousel is between me and it, and (back in the day), tossers who think the best place to peruse videos in the video shop was between me and the shelf. These people deserve a footprint in the middle of their back.

I think that there is something in this.

There is a fair sized bit of the population that just aren't aware of other people at all and their tunnel vision means that they'll happily stand in front of the ticket barriers at a station in rush hour or block a busy entrance to a building and then get annoyed when people ask them to move. They just think don't care what anyone else wants to do.

It's the same trait for a lot of the ASL blockers who will recognise your bike/clothing as you pass them several times on a long road, but yet they still proceed to nudge past you at the lights even though they must know you'll only go around them again.

Re people pushing to the front of ASL's, I would query why there would be a space for them to push into? On a generally congested cycle route, people who arrive at the junction first should aim to leave as much space as possible for those who follow. My main gripe (other than motorbikes) is when, for example, I approach an ASL down the left of a bus / lorry. I know the light sequence so know there is enough time, I can see that the ASL isn't full, but then you get some prat parking his bike next to the lorry, meaning everybody behind him gets stuck in a dangerous position. I reckon its a two way thing - yes, people pushing in where there isn't space is annoying, but people leaving space in front of them and blocking those behind is annoying AND dangerous.

sketchley

@BigMat agreed. I always think about cyclist behind me and make sure I leave space. I get annoyed when cyclist has block the whole ASL but theres bags of space to there right.

However on more than one occasion I'll be waiting patiently at the line and someone will go round and wait in front of me. I keep meaning to tell them they best be quicker than me away from the lights or I'll be annoyed. But i'm passed my shouting phase now.

rjsterry

BigMat wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Burntwood Lane is a bit out of my way as I head down Mitcham Road from Tooting Broadway, but yes, I've seen it mentioned before as a nice route.

Turn left at Tooting Bec, then right down either Franciscan Road or the one after - Rectory Lane or Church Lane I think. That will avoid all Tooting traffic.

Yep, I go this way now that it's a bit lighter in the evenings. Franciscan isn't well lit and has lots of side roads.

jds_1981

Sketchley wrote:

However on more than one occasion I'll be waiting patiently at the line and someone will go round and wait in front of me. I keep meaning to tell them they best be quicker than me away from the lights or I'll be annoyed. But i'm passed my shouting phase now.

Main thing that stops me is thinking about the cars behind us all..

dm38

Completely agree - last week I had an idiot push infront of me at a busy junction on the Old Kent road - I refused to filter between 1 huge massive HGV and a double decker bus so he thought it would be a good idea to start elbowing my back pack and literally twisted my mudguard off (I still don't know how he managed to do it either).

My worst was two years ago - I was parked behind two buses in bishopsgate (not wanting to get squashed should it change to green) who were waiting at the red lights - crazy cyclist behind had to stop, got so enraged that she pushed me so hard that I landed up been hit by oncoming traffic coming in the opposite direction and hit by a cab leaving me with a 6 month neck injury. And as I lay on the floor after been hit she was still literally screaming blue murder about training and real cyclists not stopping at lights.

notsoblue

dm38 wrote:

Completely agree - last week I had an idiot push infront of me at a busy junction on the Old Kent road - I refused to filter between 1 huge massive HGV and a double decker bus so he thought it would be a good idea to start elbowing my back pack and literally twisted my mudguard off (I still don't know how he managed to do it either).

My worst was two years ago - I was parked behind two buses in bishopsgate (not wanting to get squashed should it change to green) who were waiting at the red lights - crazy cyclist behind had to stop, got so enraged that she pushed me so hard that I landed up been hit by oncoming traffic coming in the opposite direction and hit by a cab leaving me with a 6 month neck injury. And as I lay on the floor after been hit she was still literally screaming blue murder about training and real cyclists not stopping at lights.

F%^&ing hell dm38, thats nuts!