Racing/training...
TKing
Posts: 43
Just wondering how much, and more specifically what type of training is needed to be a competitive cat3/4 racer? Do you have to train everyday? What is somebody's typical weekly programme for a racer at this level?
Cheers...
Cheers...
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Depends on how much talent you have. Some people could never win a 3rd cat race even if they were prepared by Armstrong's doctors; Cancellara would win if the only training he did was putting nutella in the microwave and drinking it through a straw.0
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I train four times a week. Hard turbo trainer intervals or a hard 30 mile ride on Tuesday and Thursday, power sprints on Saturday, long steady ride on Sunday. Training every day wouldn't leave enough time for recoveryCAPTAIN BUCKFAST'S CYCLING TIPS - GUARANTEED TO WORK! 1 OUT OF 10 RACING CYCLISTS AGREE!0
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Herbsman wrote:I train four times a week. Hard turbo trainer intervals or a hard 30 mile ride on Tuesday and Thursday, power sprints on Saturday, long steady ride on Sunday. Training every day wouldn't leave enough time for recovery
When do you race then?More problems but still living....0 -
Quality of sessions is more important than quantity.
I've only ever done novice crits, but I am a fair to middling TT'er, a typical week for me is
2 x quality interval sessions
2 x TT's (mid week club 10, weekend open 10/25/50)
1 x rest day (complete rest day)
2 x endurance / tempo days
Obviously this changes if I need more rest, or I race more, but thats about typical0 -
amaferanga wrote:Herbsman wrote:I train four times a week. Hard turbo trainer intervals or a hard 30 mile ride on Tuesday and Thursday, power sprints on Saturday, long steady ride on Sunday. Training every day wouldn't leave enough time for recovery
When do you race then?
I've only just started racing after training for about a year, & do a similar training pattern as a few other racers I know. Only raced twice so far as there haven't been many races for 4th category riders that I have been able to get to. This all changes as of next Tuesday and for the next two months I will be racing every Tuesday evening and most Thursdays, and every weekend. I'll have a few on Wednesdays in June too. So needless to say I won't be training much until the end of June... might even have a week off riding after that.
Just for the record I'm not a "competitive cat3/4 racer" in the sense that other people see me as competition
CAPTAIN BUCKFAST'S CYCLING TIPS - GUARANTEED TO WORK! 1 OUT OF 10 RACING CYCLISTS AGREE!0 -
danowat wrote:Quality of sessions is more important than quantity.
2 x quality interval sessions
2 x TT's (mid week club 10, weekend open 10/25/50)
1 x rest day (complete rest day)
2 x endurance / tempo days
Obviously this changes if I need more rest, or I race more, but thats about typical
Struggling with this now that the TT and Race season have started. This week I've tried to do two long rides over the weekend with an interval session last night and didn't manage to finish because the legs were gone.
With only one rest and at least two events a week in your schedule above, you're not resting before one of the TT's? I've a ten tomorrow night, and I feel like I don't want to train today to get the most out of tomorrow. Same for Saturday, 65 mile race sunday so thinking saturday is out of the picture for a hard session.
What sort of 10 times are you putting out on that schedule? What do you consider a quality interval session, 1 hour at zone 4, or more or less?
I need a coach!
Cheers
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Slimbods wrote:danowat wrote:Quality of sessions is more important than quantity.
2 x quality interval sessions
2 x TT's (mid week club 10, weekend open 10/25/50)
1 x rest day (complete rest day)
2 x endurance / tempo days
Obviously this changes if I need more rest, or I race more, but thats about typical
Struggling with this now that the TT and Race season have started. This week I've tried to do two long rides over the weekend with an interval session last night and didn't manage to finish because the legs were gone.
With only one rest and at least two events a week in your schedule above, you're not resting before one of the TT's? I've a ten tomorrow night, and I feel like I don't want to train today to get the most out of tomorrow. Same for Saturday, 65 mile race sunday so thinking saturday is out of the picture for a hard session.
What sort of 10 times are you putting out on that schedule? What do you consider a quality interval session, 1 hour at zone 4, or more or less?
I need a coach!
Cheers
I have a coach
Yes, I don't rest before the mid week club TT, well thats not 100% true, as I don't commute on that day, so its bascally a rest day untill 7pm!
A quality interval session (for me) is either a good, strong 5x5 or 2x20 at the appropriate level.
I am in no means quick, I am still improving, having gone from a mid 28min 10 at the end of last season, to a 24:13 last weekend.0 -
TKing wrote:Just wondering how much, and more specifically what type of training is needed to be a competitive cat3/4 racer? Do you have to train everyday? What is somebody's typical weekly programme for a racer at this level?
Cheers...
Am a 3rd Cat, the unscientific training I do is,
Monday to Friday ride to work and back - 7 miles each way, sometimes ride hard home and throw some sprints in, sometimes not.
Tuesdays - Chaingang round Peak District, about 2 to 2 1/2 hrs overall, probably 90 mins at least hard.
Thursdays - local road race league.
Sundays - Race or 2 hr training ride.0 -
SheffSimon wrote:TKing wrote:Just wondering how much, and more specifically what type of training is needed to be a competitive cat3/4 racer? Do you have to train everyday? What is somebody's typical weekly programme for a racer at this level?
Cheers...
Am a 3rd Cat, the unscientific training I do is,
Monday to Friday ride to work and back - 7 miles each way, sometimes ride hard home and throw some sprints in, sometimes not.
Tuesdays - Chaingang round Peak District, about 2 to 2 1/2 hrs overall, probably 90 mins at least hard.
Thursdays - local road race league.
Sundays - Race or 2 hr training ride.
Is that the Rutland chain-gang or the Sheffrec one?More problems but still living....0 -
amaferanga wrote:SheffSimon wrote:TKing wrote:Just wondering how much, and more specifically what type of training is needed to be a competitive cat3/4 racer? Do you have to train everyday? What is somebody's typical weekly programme for a racer at this level?
Cheers...
Am a 3rd Cat, the unscientific training I do is,
Monday to Friday ride to work and back - 7 miles each way, sometimes ride hard home and throw some sprints in, sometimes not.
Tuesdays - Chaingang round Peak District, about 2 to 2 1/2 hrs overall, probably 90 mins at least hard.
Thursdays - local road race league.
Sundays - Race or 2 hr training ride.
Is that the Rutland chain-gang or the Sheffrec one?
Usually Rutland in the summer, has been Sheffrec in winter, but Rutland is nearer for me.
Leaves Ringinglow at 6.15, and according to this - http://www.rutland.cc/ its already started.
Usually get plenty of fast riders out from Thursday scratch group, quite a few Sheffrec lads. Steady out to Hathersage, then eyeballs out to Castleton, back to Hathersage, along valley to Baslow roundabout and back to Calver. Then back up Froggatt, supposedly steady, usually hard 0 -
Might join it tonight since the Sheffrec chain-gang can be a bit hit-and-miss.More problems but still living....0
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amaferanga wrote:Might join it tonight since the Sheffrec chain-gang can be a bit hit-and-miss.
Enjoy.
Wont be there myself, working away unfortunately.
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I think, and my many sarcastic posts on here are testament to this that its easy to get really hung up on what training is 'correct' and 'effective' my advice to anyone would simply be to ride your bike and have a go...
To me being competitive is being able to mix it with whoever and get yourself into breaks / good positions, on the other hand , to others it might be being able to survive a race and have a bash in the gallop... The laws of bike racing dicate that you can be a good competant racer but get nowt in terms of points - sometimes you just have to keep plugging away and the envelopes / points will come.
If i'm honest i've never done any specific training ( other than the occasional chainy ) for any event and have always raced myself fit and to me that works because i'm testing myself against what the 'standard' and learning about the competition at the same time - and it covers the bit any training plan cant teach you - how to read a race....
If i feel like i'm lacking then i simulate that in training like doing 30 second on off intervals or a full on TT effort etc or even things as basic as acclerating out of corners.
Just get out there and have a bash and learn from those around you - take the kickings and learn from them...0 -
so simulating in training isn't specific training?0
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first off, people banging on about there doing 20 hours a week etc unless your a pro you don't need to,
Less is more believe it or not,
expert MTb riders i know are only on 10-12 hours max ride length 1.5-2 hours,
this can change if your doing longer road races,
but 2x20min efforts and hill repeats are very good at improving your fitness and chain-gangs are very good
I'm on 11 hours, racing junior level,
10 hours would be a good starting point.
Email if you want any more info. welburn (dot) alex at yahoo (dot) co (dot) ukI do science, sometimes.0 -
Where are all these people banging on about doing 20hr weeks? :?:
I rarely do more than 10hrs, quality vs quantiy, less is more, recovery is where the improvements come, at that jazz 8)0 -
danowat wrote:Quality of sessions is more important than quantity.
I've only ever done novice crits, but I am a fair to middling TT'er, a typical week for me is
2 x quality interval sessions
2 x TT's (mid week club 10, weekend open 10/25/50)
1 x rest day (complete rest day)
2 x endurance / tempo days
Obviously this changes if I need more rest, or I race more, but thats about typical
You do some bike commuting on top of that lot or is the commute built into some of those sessions ? To me that seems like a lot as it is - fair play if you can sustain it without getting fatigued. Suppose it depends exactly how hard you are doing your intervals.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Its all built into commuting, I am lucky that my commute is long enough, flat enough and quiet enough that I can do things like 5 x 5's and 2 x 20's during a commute.0
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Ah makes sense then.
You sometimes read people claiming they do x amount of training - normally people who claim to be doing only 4-5 hours a week - and then find they aren't counting their 100 miles weekly commuting miles.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
2 hours a week for me and an open TT at weekend. Only 1 hour if i race during the week!
I'm lucky in that I see gains fairly quickly, already PB'd on a local 10 and 25 course this season.
Power meter has definately helped with smarter turbo sessions this winter.0 -
Thick Tester wrote:Just get out there and have a bash and learn from those around you - take the kickings and learn from them...
Hmm. This doesn't really stack up for me. I'm in my 2nd year racing. We only really have to TLI categories here, a A and B race and I've just moved up to the A's. Your mixing it there with Elites to fit vets, and if I hadn't done some fairly specific hard training over winter, I wouldn't be clinging onto the group on the flat let alone sticking with them on the hills or having a go on the front or attacking.
I get what your saying, you don't want to go ott on the science if you're not pro, but there's definately a minimum amount of training required if you're going to be race fit.
Racing for fitness isn't any good if you can't keep up in the first place!0 -
I really need to do some sleep training CAPTAIN BUCKFAST'S CYCLING TIPS - GUARANTEED TO WORK! 1 OUT OF 10 RACING CYCLISTS AGREE!0
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From christmas up until the end of march I was doing
3 mornings of 2x20 @ threshold
1 long endurance ride at the weekend.
I then swapped 1 or 2 of the 2x20 for 8 x 2 at v02max or a bit under. I don't have a powermeter so it's a bit rough. I also commute every day unless I feel really tired.
Now my bike is getting fixed and I am on a borrowed bike which I'm not going to race on I dont really have anything to train for so have swapped to 2 long rides in with threshold efforts up hills and a long ride at weekends.
And this for a 3rd cat racer who has yet to score a point in a 3rd cat race.0 -
I think it depends on what type of 3/4 races you do, if they are mainly crits, then I would work on getting used to sprinting out of corners as well as keeping a high tempo. If they are road races with not so much sprinting out of corners, then work on improving your threshold power.
Only you can know where you are lacking to be honest, and work this area. Also you need to make sure you keep up some endurance base as well, as this will be important for building the threshold and sprint work on.
My training changes quite considerably depending on what events I have planned and the distances I will target (I TT only). I would recommend some hard tempo efforts as well, to help push up your threshold power, 2 hours at a very hard tempo will give you good gains. My weekly hours vary from 4 hours up to 20+ hours depending on what I need for future events.0 -
Agree, I don't target events at all. I did a 10 mile TT last night (a very windy 25.11 and 17th out of 86 so I'm quite pleased) and I've a 65 mile hilly road race on Sunday. At my level, I'm just after getting the fitness to a place where I can at least finish with the A race and not ride the course alone.0
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Over winter I was doing
Tues & Thurs - 1 hour sufferfest turbo sessions
Sat - 50 to 65 mile steady rides
Mon to Fri - 13 mile round trip commute, normally at steady / recovery pace.
This got me a 5th and 1st in the only 4th cat only circuit races Ive done this season, and managing to stay with the main bunch in the 2/3/4 & 3/4 races I've done.
The main benefit though is leaving winter with enough fitness to not fall straight out the back, and enter a race every weekend right from the start. You will never be able to train as hard as you can race, and you learn that you can actually deal with more pain than you thought through racing.
Now I'm generally racing 50 odd miles on the weekend, trying to get a decent session in on a Tues and Thurs, of an hour to 3 hours, sometimes a club TT, club ride or solo ride on those days.
Rest completely one day on weekend. Commute every day.0 -
....thats not what you told me :shock: more along the lines of " havnt been out much this winter"
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Top result today....... whoever you are! Miles (in front) 8)0
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Chaingangs for me.
Started last year doing a Tuesday night and then progressing by July August to doing one on a Thursday as well.
No way I could have done a chaingang on Tuesday then again on Thursday at start of the season so they definitely improved my fitness.
Still get totally pumped in 4th cat races though :lol0
