Research help required on drivetrains

Shaggy_Dog

I've always been a big fan of using 12-15t 9sp Ultegra blocks with conventional 22.32.44t triple chainsets but only on 26" wheeled hardtails. I would not be opposed to running a double on any type of hardtail.

Full suss gets a bit more complicated as some bikes I've owned (FSR's mostly) haven't been too fussy about which chainring you're in but some (Trek and Fisher) behave very differently depending on whether the chain is on granny, middle or big ring.

I wouldn't put a new school double on my HiFi as it rides so perfectly in the middle ring, I spend so much time riding there, I'm very tempted to go 1x10 especially now an 11-36t cassette is available, although I think 32/11 is too low for tarmac. When I think about it I sometimes get tempted to run a 12-25 Ultegra block again but then I realise I won't spend as much time in the 'perfect' middle ring.

I think dyna-sys is probably the best modern solution for full sussers, and my experience or riding SRAM 2x10 is amazing but only suited to certain bikes and riders.

I like that SRAM are trying to eliminate the triple chainset from road but I'm not sure if it's the right move for mountain biking, I spend more time not-shifting than I spend shifting so pedalling performance is more important to me than shifting smoothness.

mudsucker

On my stumpy FSR:

Shimano Deore cranks with 22,32,42T rings (Standard fittment)
SRAM X7 shifters (standard)
SRAM X9 rear mech, Shimano LX front. (Standard)
SRAM PC991 chain
SRAM pg 980 cassette 11-34T

I had Shimano LX mechs and shifters on my old bike (rockhopper) and i didn't find the shifting very positive. My latest bike came with SRAM gear which i had never used before but though i'd give it a go and much prefer it. I like the positive solid shifts from SRAM gear, as someone said above, you know its shifted!

I find my 27 speed and spocket sizes fine for my general xc and messing about at trail centres just fine, good range of ratios for the terrain.

Thanks,

Ben

thepha5e

I'm running a single chainring on originally triple ring shimano deore cranks, it's a middleburn 34t, with a superstar xcr chain guide. On the back I have 9 speed on a 11-34t cassette (sram pg970) and i've got a sram x9 shifter and a short cage x9 rear mech. I ride a hardtail on cross country, AM trails, and a bit of dirt jumping. I don't use a bash ring.

I used to run 3 x 9 before i overhauled my drivetrain in december/january, with sram x5 shifters and rear mech (long cage), and a shimano C050 front mech, the chain rings were 22/32/42t, the cassette was 11-32t This was stock on my bike, and found that i was almost always in the middle ring, and a few times i got the big chain ring in my leg - ouch!

With a bigger 34t chain ring, and a wider range cassette (11-32t originally, then a 11-34t), i realized i would have a larger range of gears than if i was just in the middle ring on my old setup, which i found fine most of the time originally. Losing the excess shifter/mech also helped lose weight, as did the new x9 kit, and the new short cage x9 is much quieter and smoother than the old long cage x5. Without the front mech or chainrings either side i found that the chain (sram pc971) fell off a lot, so i got a superstar bb mount chainguide, which has solved the problem. I find the ergonomics of the sram shifters are fine, i prefer the sram style to shimano shifters, and they're quiet enough at shifting, but it's nice to hear them shift so you know when they've shifted.

submityournentries

righty listing time.
ive got sram x.9 shifters and rear mech, and x.7 front. the reason behind sram over shimano is because i prefer the "push push" of the gearing, and i also just prefer the looks of them. went up from x5 and the difference was brilliant much crisper and sharper, played with x.0 on a bike at work but couldnt see the justification in twice the cost for abit lighter on the bike i ride.
Use a pc991 chain, just the basic 1, with a snap link, had a pc971 and snapped it twice, once painfully, so gave up.
use a pg981 cassette, 11-32, cause i couldnt afford the 991, and didnt see the big enough performance advantage. love the ratio, but tbh tend to stick in gears 4,5,6,7, or when on road 7,8,9.
just changed a deore crankset for a raceface atlas AM, same ratio, 22-32-44, but will be replacing the 44 with a bashring as i very rarely use the top ring, and would rather have strength and stupid proof for my riding.
at the moment mostly ride at thetford and swinley, both pretty flat, and alot of road work inbetween.

supersonic

Many thanks for the input, some interesting and useful thoughts.

NatoED

LX hollowtech II cranks 24/ 36/42 rings . 11-27 tiagra cassette and Tiagra rear mech Short cage. and untill a few months ago Shimano STX shifters from 11 years ago. front shifter is deore XT .

I love my tiagra rea mech i don't get any chain slap from it it's very fast on the up shifts and really strong. I first used one when i rode trials , i kept breaking MTB mechs so i was advised to try a road one instead . I did so and i fell in love from the first shift.

I also like the closer ratio of the road cassettes to . Is it me or are they more durable?

.blitz

Rize: 2x9 11-32 32/22
Shifters: X7
R mech: X9
F mech: Deore

Chucker: 1x8 11-32 32
Shifter: X4
R mech: X7

Ramones: 2x9 11-32 32/22
Shifters: Deore
R mech: XT
F mech: Deore

Proflex: 3x8 11-28 42/32/22
Shifters: XT/Attack
R mech: XT
F mech: XT

Much prefer the clickety-click action of SRAM over Shimano's soft-touch shifters.

Gears? No need for 10-speed just like I didn't need 9-speed. Was actually OK with 7-speed and a screw-on freewheel but 8-speed seemed to bring a big improvement in shifting as well as another cog.

spongtastic

Inbred's running 11-28 HG61, with a 34t FSA SS chainring up front on a HT2 Deore and Superstar HT2 BB. Shifter is an X-5 with an X-7 rear mech. Suits me fine as although there's good places to ride here, there's no mountains in Suffolk, Essex or Norfolk.

I do sometimes fit a 11-34 PG980 cassette to the rear if it's a bit wet and sloppy or if I'm travelling and not sure what the trails are like. Chain is always whatever's cheapest, currently a £9 KMC 9 speed, to be honest I've had hollowpin 991's and can't feel any difference.

The Merlin's running 34/15 SS set up, with a PC1 chain, FSA SS chainring and Alivio square taper cranks.

jay12

i run a 1x9 set up because i mostly do 4x, fr and dh so it makes sense. i have an e13 chainguide. i chose a 1x9 set up as it's simpler, i don't need a granny ring anymore, i hate the sound of the chain banging on the front mech, i prefer having less cables on my bike, my chain used to get jammed as it would fall off which damaged my frame

36t blackspre alloy chainring on the front and a 11-23 shimano tiagra cassette. also run a sram pc971 chain as i'v not had any problems with sram chains and the powerlink is so useful

shifter is a shimano slx, with the window things removed as it gives a better brake set up and i don't need to see what gear i'm in tbh. the shifter it self is very good. nice shifts and dual release so you can change down with your thumb(which i prefer) would like an xtr shifter tbh as it feel nicer and made of metal so will survive crashes more compared to plastic(i destroyed my lx shifter). also i run xt outers and standard shimano inners. good lubricated cables and a good mech set up is so important in having perfect shifting.

rear mech is a short cage shimano saint. i got i after i bent my slx mech. the short cage means less banging about of the mech cage and it looks a lot better when on a 1x9 set up. the saint mech is super strong which is what i need when riding fr and dh. very good shifts, best mech i have used. love the tight spring as it means a more responsive shift. really easy to adjust as well. don't want torun a sram mech as they haven't got a dh specific one and i'v seen too many broken ones.

i run a shimano saint crankset as it looks awesome and will never break. pretty light for what it is, weighs about the same a deore! also the bb is very smooth and easy to install.

10 speed, eh. well it was always gonna happen, just like 8 speed went into 9. nothing wrong at all with 9 speed and won't change until i have to. also i woudn't want to change as there is not enough advantages over the price tag. and apparently 10 speed chains aren't as strong? wouldn't want that.

shifter wise, my slx feel good but on some brakes it hard to get a perfect balance between brake lever and shift lever position.

also would like to say that i can't really see the new hydraulic gears from acros taking off(and i know they have been around for a while)

joshtp

Right... away we go:


Main bike (on one 456 summer season, 140mm forks, big tyres. I use it as a everything bike, but most of my riding is hardcore trail/am)

Currently running a 1x9 set up. 11-34 on the back. 32 on the front I'm running it with a superstar plasma chain device. Using a deore shifter and an XT mech and a Sram POG970 cassette. (which, incidentally, I dislike... much prefer Shimano cassette's, but it was cheap and I was in a rush..)

I like 1x8/9/10 as I feel it gives me a wide enough spread of gears for most of my riding ( I do miss the granny ring sometimes, but not often enough to refit it) I never used the big ring, so I dropped it last year, and ran 2x9 for a long time. I also like the 1x9 as It saves a chunk of weight and most importantly simplifies everything, there's less to worry about and maintain. that's important to me.

I would really like to try 1x10, as far as I can see it has no drawbacks. 11-36 seems very attractive to me. I know specialized are working on a special freehub that will allow a 9-36 and that sounds good too, I'm not a racer, I'm not too fussed by close ratio's, I'm more interested in the spread.

The only big drawback of 1x9/10 is finding the right size front ring... 32 is a little to low for going really fast, and a 34/36 wont give a low enough gear for climbing... for the compromise I prefer a lower gear, so run a 32.

As far as sram/shimano goes I'm all about shimano. Sram does feel good, but I just prefer the "easy" feel of Shimano. I run a deore shifter, but only because that's all I can afford, I'd like an XTR, as from the limited amount of time I've had with them they feel lovely and effect the shift feel more than anything else.

I'm more than happy with my XT mech though... to me Shadow is a huge step in the right direction... I've broken loads of non-shadow mechs from passing branches/rocks etc...

If I was to buy a full new Drivetrain tomorow, money no object It would consist of an XTR shifter driving an XT R.mech over a 11-36 10 speed mech with a single front ring (32 or 34) and a full chain device.

I do not use a Bash ring, I never really bash my rings!

As for hub gears... I'm not sure... I like the idea, but the concentration of weight is not so cool. Hammershmit is a nice idea though.



Other bikes run various set up's... single speed with a front fee hub on my trials bike (obviously)

1x8 on the spare... it gets used mostly for town and light offroad blasting... It's running a deore mech and an Alivio shifter, and they are flawless, weirdly I really like the feel of the alivio shifter.

3x6 DX on the retro, and bio-pace rings for a dose of ultimate funk! - dont ride it that often, but it's little more than OK when I do... but it is 20 years old I suppose.

3x9 on the "other" bike... it's good, but nothing special, running sram X7 - which is OK, but I'm not a fan.

njee20

Stupidly long post alert!

I’ve tried just about everything over the years! Used to just use 3x9, 22/32/44 with 11-32, with Shimano triggers, then used Dual Control levers, which I liked. Then went to SRAM X.0 Triggers when they first did them. Personally found the ergonomics all wrong, would knock the release lever with my thumb knuckle unless I ran them so far inboard reaching them was a chore.

In 2006, primilar with racing in mind I changed to a 12-27 cassette to save some weight, this was on an S-Works Carbon hardtail. Soon after also went to Grip Shift, which was great. Found the 12-27 more hassle than good. Although it did bring a reasonable weight saving, and replacements were cheap I found myself shifting on the front the whole time, which for racing at least cost me more time than the weight loss saved.

For 2007 I reverted to an 11-34 cassette, still with X.0 Grip Shift, now on an S-Works Epic, but took the granny ring off, leaving 32/44. This had limited benefits, it saved less weight than the close ratio block, there were no chain line benefits and it compromised your low gear. The advantage for me was that you had to go fast, if you were in a race and those around you dropped down, you just had to dig deeper. Late in 2007 I changed to a 30/42 combo with Extralite Octaramp inner, and TA outer. Found the ratios slightly more useable, but there were no chainline advantages. For 2008 (on a new S-Works Epic), I tried moving the BB spacers around to move the cranks 2.5mm to the left. Didn’t personally find any problems with the offset cranks, and it gave a better chainline, allowing me to use an unmodified Dura Ace front mech (still using Grip Shift), but I’m sure in the long run it may have caused me knee problems.

For 2009, on a 3rd S-Works Epic I couldn’t do the offset cranks, due to press-fit bearings. Continued to run 30/42 with Grip Shift. After entering a 12 hour solo I decided to reduce my rings slightly to 28/40, giving me a bit more of a bail out option when knackered. Ended up really liking that combo, I could keep it in the big ring far more, but the 28 was still there if necessary.

For 2010 on a Top Fuel I used XX triggers, with 28/42 rings and 11-36. The triggers were vastly better than early SRAM ones, I didn’t find myself knocking the release lever as much and the throw felt better. As with the 28/40 9 speed set up I found myself in the big ring almost constantly, but often in the larger cassette sprockets, or if I dropped to the inner ring I’d have to dump a load of gears on the back at the same time.

For 2011 I started with an XTR M980 set up, triggers, 30/42 rings, 11-36 block. I’d decided after my XX experiences that I’d try single ring, so after a few rides I got a custom ti 36t chain ring. Now running that, with the 11-36 block and find it great. Personally slightly concerned I may be over geared for some hillier races, Dalby and Margam Park, but never have any issues when not racing, got more strength in reserve for the climbs. I doubt there are very many climbs I couldn’t do in the 36 that I could with a smaller chain ring, a couple I suspected may be beyond me locally have proven alright.

Obviously all my bikes have been light race-biased bikes. If I was on a more trail type bike I’d stick with a double most likely, 28/42 or similar. I tend to ride more in the saddle, not really one for grinding up hills, but at a reasonably fit 66kg I don’t tend to struggle too much. Local riding is Surrey Hills, but visit Cwm Carn/Afan periodically and race all over the country.

moggy82

DH Bike

11-28 - 8 Speed Cassette
38 Tooth Ring 175mm Cranks - E13 SRS
Tiagra Rear Mech
Sram Attack Shifters

Jump/HT Trail Bike

11-30 8 Speed Cassette
36T Ring - Specialised Skull Device
Tiagra Rear Mech
Sram attack Shifters

Will Add Opinions Later, Lunch is over ;-)


Moggy

mastermosher

Xt shifters over SLX. SLX seem so plastic feeling adn do not line up adequately with Avid anchors.

andyrm

Joshtp - think you might have just answered my question about going 1x9!!! How are you finding it overall? In terms of chain device, what do you use?

joshtp

andyrm wrote:

Joshtp - think you might have just answered my question about going 1x9!!! How are you finding it overall? In terms of chain device, what do you use?

I'm using a Superstar Plasma chain device... it's a chunky monkey, but dead solid... for less extreme riding a simple one like the Superstar XCR one would be fine...

Overall it's really good... I live in a hilly area so I do miss the small ring sometimes, and have to run a 32 up front or I'd never get up any hills... But that's OK for me, I'm not the sort of person that really enjoys uphill anyway... and much of my local riding involves seshing lots of short runs..

If I lived in a flatter area/was fitter I'd run a bigger front ring, as you can spin out a 32 pretty easily.. but again, not a problem for me, most of my riding is hilly so the speed comes without much pedalling...


benefits: well, It's light, simple and low maintenance. And that's about it really... If you can put up with not having the really small gears then it just makes sense... I cant be bothered to fiddle and fix stuff all the time, so it's one less thing to worry about.


I'd say give it a go! what's the worst that can happen? Even if you have to refit your f.mech then it's no biggy...

andyrm

Nice one - cheers for the input!

I live in Bristol and ride lots in Wales, Mendips, all my local stuff too. Even in the Alps and in California last year, the granny was redundant.

I'm blessed with a good platform of fitness thanks to 10 years' competitive swimming when I was younger - means I'm lucky enough to be able to run high cadences but also have enough power to crank up hills when needed. Doesn't do my popularity any good on club rides though....

joshtp

andyrm wrote:

Nice one - cheers for the input!

I live in Bristol and ride lots in Wales, Mendips, all my local stuff too. Even in the Alps and in California last year, the granny was redundant.

I'm blessed with a good platform of fitness thanks to 10 years' competitive swimming when I was younger - means I'm lucky enough to be able to run high cadences but also have enough power to crank up hills when needed. Doesn't do my popularity any good on club rides though....

sounds like 1x9/10 is perfect for you then!

andyrm

Time to break out the spanners methinks...thanks for your help!

joshtp

dim problem amigo

joshtp

(sorry, forgot ya'll don't speak Welsh... Dim means no.)

supersonic

My own set ups:

Zaskar Team: 44/32/22 Hone, 11-32 XT, LX shifters, XTR rear mech
Mongoose: 32/22 plus bash, Shimano Alivio Octalink, 11-32 PG970, Deore shifters, XTR rear mech
Zaskar LE: 44/32 SHimano LX octalink, 11-32 PG970, currently devoid of shifters and mechs lol.

The Team has become my allround bike and my triple chainset reflects that. It goes up and down hills at speed, even though I do use the middle ring most.
The Goose had the big ring taken off for a bash. This is my short range, farting about weapon. It will see harder terrain: if I want more speed, may fit a 36.
The LE is my road/towpath/light XC sort of thing. It generally won't see the hills of the other too, but I can always pop a smaller ring on.

I'll be testing a variety of kit in a variety of situations.

Northwind

I've got 5 bikes running currently, as follows:

Both bigger bikes have the exact same kit- 2x9, 11-34 cassette on the back, 22-36 on the front. X9 shifters and rear mech, SLX double front mechs. Blackspire stinger on the full suss. XTR cranks as it happens with deore steel big ring on, but could be any crank really. SLX cassette on one, XT on the lighter bike, can't tell any difference without a set of scales though.

This is tried and tested, works for downhill races and winching up tour de france climbs, I can just about spin it out on the fastest and most untechnical of descents but in practice it's no drawback. The Stinger keeps the chain on the full suss pretty much regardless of what I do, the hardtail doesn't need it because of the more stable chain tension.

I like SRAM, maybe because I'm so old I remember when all indexing shifters felt this clunky. I think of it as positive though, a Shimano fan would call it crude, I'd call Shimano vague.

Oh, the deore rings are because they last forever, shift well for most of their life, and don't weigh that much more than alu rings. Alu ones seem to lose their edge shifting wise almost immediately, my Middleburn was nice for a month then spent the rest of its short life being pretty poor.

To me, this is the best allround option, detail changes to taste (Shimano mechs, different gear ranges) but it's the best balance IMO, I reckon triple ring is like single ring- it has its place and some folks want it but the default ought to be dual for mountain bikes.


On the rigid XC bike, I've got X9 mech and shifter, 1x9 with an SLX crank, Superstar chain device (which is broken but still works) and a random 32T ring which I think is an XTR. Speaks for itself really, not as good at high speed and not as good for climbing but complements the bike as it's very light, and limited in what it can do at top speed anyway. Wouldn't put this setup on a bigger bike, since I'd miss the high gears, and if I geared up I'd miss the low gears


On the commuter... An Exage 7-speed rear mech and I think an ancient XT front, Tourney crankset Only the big ring ever gets used though. Shifters are Altus I think. Whole setup cost me less than the cranks on the rigid All perfectly functional though. Most people would assume it's all rubbish I suppose but there's nothing wrong with it, limited choice of cassettes though and heavy, and the cranks flex like a fishing rod.


And on the BMX, 1x1

nicklouse

Mmm a big selection

Sram bikes

X7 32-11 Original with firex cranks
X9 34-11 Original with XT 38/28
X0 32-11 and Hammershmidt 24 T cog fitted. (replaced the last shimano MTB gear set).
7-0 32-11 (8spd) 38T front and twist grip 7-0
X0 32-11 and 40 on the DH bike.
X9 28-11 38T short cage but with a bust shifter.
SS 32-15

and 42-16 on the fixed slick shod pub bike.

phz

Have run single chainring setups for years now (10+) - most of my riding is round here where there aren't many hills so it's simpler and lighter to ditch the extra rings and derailleur/shifter.

Mr Hyde
c.30lb AM hardtail with 100mm forks (built for strength & fun rather than flat speed).
1x9 setup.
32T raceface chainring & bash with identiti chain device.
11-34 SRAM cassette with SRAM X9 rear derailleur.
SRAM X9 twister shifter.
Originally ran a 38T/11-32 setup which was fine for round here - switched to a 36T/11-32 just to make things a bit more usable in Thetford and Sherwood (my closest centres). Was up at Laggan last summer and that setup was killing me on the ups but didn't want to go double up front (stubborn git) so switched to 34T/11-34 when I got home. Have just got new cranks that came with a 32T ring and bash which my 34T ring is too thick to fit so running the 32 for now (see how it goes before I look at sourcing a compatible 34T again). Was running SRAM X9 trigger shifter until earlier this year - switched back to twist as a bit of an experiment (ran gripshift on all my bikes in the 90s) and liking it so far - no technical reason, just personal preference and 'feel'.

Trailstar
c.28lb all-rounder (tough XC) hardtail with 80mm forks.
1x7 setup.
40T Gusset chainring running DMR Chain Cage and Chain Reactor.
12-32 (I think) cassette with SRAM X3 derailleur.
SRAM X5 shifter.
Used mostly for commuting (mixed road/dirt) and 'towpath' duties on semi-slicks so the taller gearing and smaller range works fine round here.

Lee Cooper
c.25lb rigid beast (heavy forks and wheels)
singlespeed.
34T octane chainring.
16T DMR singlespeed conversion with DMR Tension Seeker.
Built from odds-n-ends as a slick-shod 'road' MTB. Running singlespeed just as a 'why not?' exercise, because round here on tarmac singlespeed works fine, and because of what bits and pieces I had laying around (or could buy cheap) when I decided to build up the old (1995) XC frame.

slainte :oops: rob

FBM.BMX

1 Bike, NS surge, not built light. Used for getting some fresh air in the peaks/riding to a fun spot/riding that fun spot.

Currently 1X9, 34, 11-34. Had 2X9, 26/38, 11-32 recently. Miss the granny ring a little bit on the really long, tedious uphills, but generally i prefer climbing with 1X9 now.

Saint SS rear mech, saint shifter, superstar plasma. The fact i do some freeride/downhill meant that my BMX mind could not hack the bouncing around of the chain with 2X9. Also found a front mech too unreliable in muddy/bumpy situations (i had a stinger too). 1X9 sorted that a treat.

I also detest bar clutter, getting rid of a cable and shifter made me happy.

I live in sheffield, so peak riding is inevitable, never really longer than 3 hours though.

Wharncliffe, other freeride bits and the BMX track get ridden too.

I climb out of the saddle, so don't actually drop into the 34-34 gear in those cases, normally 34-28 for climbing. 34-34 is used for sitting down and being lazy on flat or going up a slight incline.

Peak riding inevitably involves road to link up good bits at times, i only spin out at these times. Doesn't bother me one bit. My bike isn't made for riding fast on roads and the coast time, is break time.

edhornby

currently run 3x9 cos that came with the bike - SRAM x5 which is fine as far as I can see, but I do think triples are overkill (mtb and road) as we have much wider ratio cassettes

really not sure that 10speed is the holy grail, thinner chains will burn out faster with the mud and dust - the only reason I can see people switching over to 10speed is cos the wide ratio cassettes won't be made in 9 (or 8) speed

also had 1x9 for a while on a previous bike and if I had a blank sheet of paper I would probably go for that set up again, or maybe alfine - I got round Llandegla black on the middle ring and 11-32 so I reckon the majority of riding could be covered by this setup

NatoED

How many others use Tiagra or 105 rear mechs like me? I feel a little odd now.

getonyourbike

I've got traditional triple ring 11/32/44, 9 speed setup with an 11-32 cassette. I'd like to go double and bask but like loads of things, it's money. I only use the granny ring for really steep climbs , most of my time is spent in the middle ring. I barely ever use the big ring except on road descents.

Northwind

edhornby wrote:

really not sure that 10speed is the holy grail, thinner chains will burn out faster with the mud and dust - the only reason I can see people switching over to 10speed is cos the wide ratio cassettes won't be made in 9 (or 8) speed

Aye, I think so too... I want a lightweight 11-36 but you have to go 10-speed for that since they've chosen not to make a 9-speed one. You can bodge one together out of a 12-36 for 9-speed but the cassette's pretty weighty.

DickBarton

Used to ride 24-36-48 up front with 11-32 on the rear - was a great combo and did me up/down and across with no issues at all.

Then other life got in the way and I don't have the legs I used to have. Now riding 11-32 on the rear and a 22-32-44 on the front.

If I ever get enough time to get back into proper biking then I'll eventually go back to the ratio I used to use...