Speed compared to others

JimboPlob

Ok

This may sound like a daft question, but I notice it alot..

When going hard, I notice that up hills I can catch other riders. On the flat, If I have a tail wind I also usually catch other riders. If there is a headwind on the flat, the same guys I can catch up hills/on the flat with a tail wind, will generally pull away from me. (They are also going pushing for threshold)

I seem to be just as aero as the other riders (I can be on the drops and they can be sitting up), but if there is a head wind, I really struggle.

I am 6' and 70kg. I like to spin, usually 100+.

Any ideas??

Down the Road

They produce more power than you. You might also be trying harder uphill than they are.

Remember in training you only know how hard 1 person is trying. You have no idea on everyone else.

ded

Your power:weight ratio is better than theirs. Your power:drag ratio is worse than theirs.

Mar ge

you're skinny

I have exactly the opposite issue.... (+2" & 20kg)
Headwinds are great but please wait for me at the top of the hill

derbygrimpeur

Mar ge wrote:

you're skinny

I have exactly the opposite issue.... (+2" & 20kg)
Headwinds are great but please wait for me at the top of the hill

+1

I'm 6' and 59kg. Uphills & tailwinds are not a problem. Headwinds I suffer more than heavier folk.

Eyon

you are quite tall so most likely a fairly powerful rider. You are also quite light for your size so you can easily out climb people as drag isnt as much of a concern in a hill climb, so you win here.

However, due to your size you are no doubt quite draggy, so this is where you suffer in the wind.

I am 1 inch taller than you but 15kg more. I'm slow on the hills due to my weight, and slow into wind due to my size, but get me on the strait then the power comes into play.

I read somewhere 80% of your power at 25mph (airspeed) goes into overcoming drag, 90% of that is your own body. So 72% of your power goes into fighting the air at 25mph, so without a doubt, someone who is 5 foot 6 will be better into wind than 6 foot

Down the Road

Best tip is to lower your cadence to your climbing cadence when driving into the wind.

Works really well If you keep spinning you seem to go nowhere

JimboPlob

So, should I work on reducing my Drag?

One thing I notice is that I don't feel I can sustain the same power output when Im on the drops.

I guess I would need a power tap and lots of testing to prove this, but is it something to work on?

Also, I feel I have to "mash" more into the wind. I have tried dropping down a gear and spinning more, but this always seems slower than pushing a bigger gear into the wind. I was thinking of using my commute home to try and get used to pushing bigger gears. Is this a waste of time?

Down the Road

You will produce LESS power in the drops.

Commute would be perfect Lower Cadence by about 10 or so and see how you go.

Don't waste money on a power meter it will only show how poor your outputs really are and not improve you at all unless you have someone who knows what the numbers mean and how to improve them.

Just get in the wind and PRACTICE

JimboPlob

Tonight is very windy... did a threshold session this morning, but will try the lower cadence work tonight.

Why will I produce less power in the drops? Not arguing, just curious.

Also, if looking to increase overall speed, should one train in the drops or in the position where I am most powerful?? Guessing there is a trade off between aero and power.

Down the Road

Hip angle change Same with TT position. Trade off is lowering drag. This is why drops over 26mph and not before

Head wind can lower this but basically it is about power into the wind

Pokerface

Down the Road wrote:

Hip angle change Same with TT position. Trade off is lowering drag. This is why drops over 26mph and not before

Or you can ride in the drops at slower speeds and work on producing greater power in this position?

Not riding in the drops unless "over 26mph and not before" is unrealistic.

ded

JimboPlob wrote:

Also, I feel I have to "mash" more into the wind. I have tried dropping down a gear and spinning more, but this always seems slower than pushing a bigger gear into the wind. I was thinking of using my commute home to try and get used to pushing bigger gears. Is this a waste of time?

All this seems like a lot of thinking! You don't need a power meter, or an in-depth cadence analysis. You want to go faster. Ride into the wind and try a few things to see what makes you faster! If you go faster with a lower cadence and bigger gears, good, work on that. If you go faster on the drops, good, work on that.

I don't know (nobody here knows) what the optimum combination of gear/cadence/position/bike/training will make you faster into the wind. IM(H)O you'd be better riding the bike than discussing all the possible training/riding strategies here (and yes, I know that is a hypocritical statement as I write this, but I really don't thik there is an "answer" to this "problem"!!!!!!)

Garz

Going into the wind being on the drops is the best option. Disregarding the 'over 26mph' theory, in this more aero shape you will be expending less energy and increasing your efficiency. You can work on the speed.

As to which works best (spinning or grinding) that is personal preference. As others mentioned - practice!