VO2 max of cyclists V Formula 1 drivers

mattybeck

Had a colleague claim that F1 drivers have athletic abilities similar to that of top level cyclists which i thought was b/s. Anybody have any idea what Jenson Button's VO2 max is? Or Schumachers, Vettel's or Weber's?

Fast caterham

First post so hello everybody!

I'm quite into my motorsport as well as cycling. I'd be surprised if their vo2 max was up there with the top cyclists. Wouldn't be surprised if they were on a par with some of the lesser pros mind.
You have to keep in mind though although they are often in the gym virtually every day when you take into account travelling, testing, racing etc they probably don't have too much time during the season to do regular endurance training.

I have got a book somewhere on formula 1 driver fitness and theres a quote from a sports scientist saying that cycling was the only sport he'd observed that had higher long term sustained heartrates (ie over 2 hours) than formula 1 mind!

Headhuunter

Sounds rubbish to me too but I haven't got any facts or figures to back that up...

ut_och_cykla

High VO2 or not I can well believe that formula 1 ( or Motorbike racing at similar level) makes extreme demands on fitness but I can imagine that the high pulse rates are due to stress and heat rather than exertion. That's not to say they don't exert themselves - just the space for large muscle use is very cramped.
Kenny Brekt was on Swedish TV the other day talking about his accident (high speed crash into a wheel at Indy?) adn basically said that if he hadn't been in such well trained (gym & running)shape his body would have fallen apart in the impact (as it was he broke a lot of bones). His one regret after his accident is that he no longer runs as the titanium pole in his thigh doen't like the jarring. Seem to remember racing drivers did rather well in the old (70's??) TV programme which pitted various sportsmen against one another.
So very fit but not as a top level cyclist.

Fast caterham

Had a quick google for facts and figures and couldn't find much.

Looked up Buttons 2010 London triatholon time and he finished 3rd in his age group 2 mins behind the winner who had represented GB at the the Triatholon World Champs and finished top 50.

Not a simple comparision but to do that you must have to have pretty good vo2 max etc figures!

danowat

F1 Drivers don't just sit there and drive, they have to be seriously fit, I wouldn't mind betting that their VO2MAX is comparable with a high level cyclist.

I know many motorbike races are also keen cyclists, and very fast ones at that!

Headhuunter

danowat wrote:

F1 Drivers don't just sit there and drive, they have to be seriously fit, I wouldn't mind betting that their VO2MAX is comparable with a high level cyclist.

I know many motorbike races are also keen cyclists, and very fast ones at that!

I'm sure F1 racing requires a high level of fitness but does it really require the sort of fitness a pro cyclist needs? I doubt it. I'm sure that many F1 drivers ARE very fit, but that's probably simply because they are sports people and competitive in nature and generally like other sports anyway. I sincerely doubt thuogh that F1 driving specifically, requires pro cyclist levels of fitness.

Simontheintrepid

Headhuunter wrote:

danowat wrote:

F1 Drivers don't just sit there and drive, they have to be seriously fit, I wouldn't mind betting that their VO2MAX is comparable with a high level cyclist.

I know many motorbike races are also keen cyclists, and very fast ones at that!

I'm sure F1 racing requires a high level of fitness but does it really require the sort of fitness a pro cyclist needs? I doubt it. I'm sure that many F1 drivers ARE very fit, but that's probably simply because they are sports people and competitive in nature and generally like other sports anyway. I sincerely doubt thuogh that F1 driving specifically, requires pro cyclist levels of fitness.

I respectfully disagree. Not that I know exactly, but they really do need to be as fit as any other top sportsmen to deal with the G-forces. Somewhere I read that despite their fitness in high speed corners the force is still strong enough that they can't breathe properly. There's also a lot of force going through the pedals and steering wheel so they need strong limbs to keep that up for 1.5 - 2 hours. It's a different challenge to cycling and uses the body in a different way. You can't see a lot of the exertion because they are hidden in the car and with the overalls and helmet.

There's always going to be a benefit to being fitter than the rest, as being less exhausted will help the enormous mental concentration required, so they need to be fit as possible. I'm sure this will be discussed on the BBC coverage this weekend with Malaysia being the hottest race of the year.

danowat

Headhuunter wrote:

danowat wrote:

F1 Drivers don't just sit there and drive, they have to be seriously fit, I wouldn't mind betting that their VO2MAX is comparable with a high level cyclist.

I know many motorbike races are also keen cyclists, and very fast ones at that!

I'm sure F1 racing requires a high level of fitness but does it really require the sort of fitness a pro cyclist needs? I doubt it.

I don't doubt it, but its going to be tough to prove!!!

rick_chasey

That's a silly question.

Formula one is ultimately a skill sport, where being fit allows you to be skillful in tough conditions (i.e. a fast car).

Cycling is an endurance sport.

V02 max is basically another way of saying "talent for endurance" > it's not a measure of fitness.

In order to be even remotely good in cycling you need an extraordinary 'talent for endurance'.

Headhuunter

danowat wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

danowat wrote:

F1 Drivers don't just sit there and drive, they have to be seriously fit, I wouldn't mind betting that their VO2MAX is comparable with a high level cyclist.

I know many motorbike races are also keen cyclists, and very fast ones at that!

I'm sure F1 racing requires a high level of fitness but does it really require the sort of fitness a pro cyclist needs? I doubt it.

I don't doubt it, but its going to be tough to prove!!!

Yes, tough to prove because as I said, people like Jenson Button clearly enjoy other sports which keep/require them to be fit anyway, Jenson does triathlons so he'd be fit anyway, whether or not it was required as an F1 driver...

rolf_f

Simontheintrepid wrote:

I respectfully disagree. Not that I know exactly, but they really do need to be as fit as any other top sportsmen to deal with the G-forces. Somewhere I read that despite their fitness in high speed corners the force is still strong enough that they can't breathe properly. There's also a lot of force going through the pedals and steering wheel so they need strong limbs to keep that up for 1.5 - 2 hours. It's a different challenge to cycling and uses the body in a different way. You can't see a lot of the exertion because they are hidden in the car and with the overalls and helmet.

+1. Anyone who doubts the fitness requirements of F1 should just try a go kart endurance event at an outside circuit. It's absolutely exhausting and that's just three or four 15 minute sessions in a basic kart (I recall having to try to wedge the steering wheel in place on the right handers as I no longer had the strength to hold the wheel normally!). 2 hours in an F1 car doesn't bear thinking about!

emx

Button might have the same Vo2 as Cancellara - who knows. But the sports are different. Button couldn't go out and win Paris Roubaix any more than Cancellara could climb into an F1 car and win a GP.....

Headhuunter

Rolf F wrote:

Simontheintrepid wrote:

I respectfully disagree. Not that I know exactly, but they really do need to be as fit as any other top sportsmen to deal with the G-forces. Somewhere I read that despite their fitness in high speed corners the force is still strong enough that they can't breathe properly. There's also a lot of force going through the pedals and steering wheel so they need strong limbs to keep that up for 1.5 - 2 hours. It's a different challenge to cycling and uses the body in a different way. You can't see a lot of the exertion because they are hidden in the car and with the overalls and helmet.

+1. Anyone who doubts the fitness requirements of F1 should just try a go kart endurance event at an outside circuit. It's absolutely exhausting and that's just three or four 15 minute sessions in a basic kart (I recall having to try to wedge the steering wheel in place on the right handers as I no longer had the strength to hold the wheel normally!). 2 hours in an F1 car doesn't bear thinking about!

But that's muscle strength in specific areas not VO2 capacity. I wouldn't deny that the G forces in F1 would be significant and that you would need strength in certain body parts to counteract them, but specifically VO2 capacity surely does not need to be as high in F1 drivers as in pro cyclists....

Headhuunter

emx wrote:

Button might have the same Vo2 as Cancellara - who knows. But the sports are different. Button couldn't go out and win Paris Roubaix any more than Cancellara could climb into an F1 car and win a GP.....

Exactly, the requirements are totally different. An F1 driver would need muscle strength to counteract G forces etc, not endurance/VO2 capacity....

Simontheintrepid

Headhuunter wrote:

But that's muscle strength in specific areas not VO2 capacity. I wouldn't deny that the G forces in F1 would be significant and that you would need strength in certain body parts to counteract them, but specifically VO2 capacity surely does not need to be as high in F1 drivers as in pro cyclists....

Yep, OK, I should've read the question and on VO2 max I don't know.That I guess depends on how much of a lap those forces are going through the body. It's horses for courses but I bet if an F1 driver wanted to go pro cycling it wouldn't take too long to get his VO2 max up.

desweller

Are oxygen consumption rate and heart rate not closely connected? A F1 driver may average ~170bpm during a 2 hour race; how does that compare to a rider on a 50 mile TT (the only event of comparable duration I could think of)?

Headhuunter

Simontheintrepid wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

But that's muscle strength in specific areas not VO2 capacity. I wouldn't deny that the G forces in F1 would be significant and that you would need strength in certain body parts to counteract them, but specifically VO2 capacity surely does not need to be as high in F1 drivers as in pro cyclists....

Yep, OK, I should've read the question and on VO2 max I don't know.That I guess depends on how much of a lap those forces are going through the body. It's horses for courses but I bet if an F1 driver wanted to go pro cycling it wouldn't take too long to get his VO2 max up.

I'm sure it would take a bit more than a year of training to turn a pro F1 driver into a pro TDF cyclist and vice versa. It takes years and years for pro sportsmen to train their bodies for their specific sport to get to pro level.

Headhuunter

DesWeller wrote:

Are oxygen consumption rate and heart rate not closely connected? A F1 driver may average ~170bpm during a 2 hour race; how does that compare to a rider on a 50 mile TT (the only event of comparable duration I could think of)?

I wouldn't have thought so. The heart is just 1 muscle in the body with oxygen requirements. If the rest of the body is more or less static, albeit under strain for various forces, then its oxygen requirements will not be massive. A pro cyclists heart and legs are both pumping hard and the legs especially will have enormous fuel and oxygen requirements...

desweller

I'll guess we'll just have to email Ferrari and Saxobank and see if Fernando Alonso wants to test against Bertie (not Ecclestone).

Simontheintrepid

Headhuunter wrote:

I'm sure it would take a bit more than a year of training to turn a pro F1 driver into a pro TDF cyclist and vice versa. It takes years and years for pro sportsmen to train their bodies for their specific sport to get to pro level.

I didn't say he'd win!! :P

meanredspider

I'm always amused by how dismissive people are of the fitness levels of F1 drivers - it's just down to ignorance. These guys are ultra-fit. It's the demands of the sport - they are the highest-paid sportsmen in probably the most expensive sport. If it gives them an edge, they'll do it. Many of them (Button, Webber etc) compete in endurance events for fun - they set them up too. They have often extremely keen cyclists - even Nigel Mansell still does endurance cycling and, IIRC, set up a youth GB cycling team.

I don't think it's possible to directly compare the capabilities of different sportsmen because their training is so targeted to their particular sport but, in all-round endurance capability, F1 drivers are up their with the best.

I'm visiting the McLaren technical centre in the next few months, I'll see if I can find some specifics.

Headhuunter

meanredspider wrote:

I'm always amused by how dismissive people are of the fitness levels of F1 drivers - it's just down to ignorance. These guys are ultra-fit. It's the demands of the sport - they are the highest-paid sportsmen in probably the most expensive sport. If it gives them an edge, they'll do it. Many of them (Button, Webber etc) compete in endurance events for fun - they set them up too. They have often extremely keen cyclists - even Nigel Mansell still does endurance cycling and, IIRC, set up a youth GB cycling team.

I don't think it's possible to directly compare the capabilities of different sportsmen because their training is so targeted to their particular sport but, in all-round endurance capability, F1 drivers are up their with the best.

I'm visiting the McLaren technical centre in the next few months, I'll see if I can find some specifics.

Yeah, sure they're all keen sportsmen and very fit, because they take part in endurance sports, someone has already mentioned Button's triathlon acheivements. However whether the VO2 requirements for F1 racing are anything like those in pro cycling I very much doubt. However as we have already discussed, F1 drivers are at the peak of fitness anyway, whether or not it is required, so it is hard to proove one way or the other but I can't understand how s cyclist making oxygen demands through legs, heart and other parts of the body can require the same VO2 capacity as a guy sitting in a car, albeit under various pressures and forces.

Yes, F1 drivers are fit (this has not been denied) but do they need VO2 capacity of a pro cyclist? I shouldn't think so. They simply aren't putting the same amount of muscle fibre into action. The original question was specifically about VO2 not about general fitness levels....

colsoop

The demands on an F1 driver from a physical point of view are incredible.

4 - 5 g exerted on the body from all sides many times per lap, for 2 hours.
high fluid loss over that time too 2 - 3 litres.

My limited understanding is the g forces experienced by the drivers reduces their ability to breathe properly. To compensate for this they have to train hard at the top of their heart rate zones to become more efficient at said elevated heart rate levels.

Because of this i reckon they would have high vo2 levels. Comparable to a cyclist - probably. Especially the drivers who do other endurance sports as paret of their training.


edit to add. I don't think the requirements of the 2 sports are the same just in view of the type of training done they would reach similar levels.

huuregeil

I know 3 things:

1. As Rolf mentioned, spending 15mins in a go-kart completely destroyed me! Great fun!

2. Mark Webber is a pretty keen cyclist.

3. I think the physical demands are similar to skiing - you need "fitness" because you're working certain muscle groups extremely hard to hold certain positions. This creates an oxygen debt, hence the high heart rate. Similarly, the ability to perform with high technical skill under these demands is at a premium. However, high V02 max is not a determinant of performance in skiing.

P_Tucker

Rick Chasey wrote:

That's a silly question.

Formula one is ultimately a skill sport, where being fit allows you to be skillful in tough conditions (i.e. a fast car).

Cycling is an endurance sport.

V02 max is basically another way of saying "talent for endurance" > it's not a measure of fitness.

In order to be even remotely good in cycling you need an extraordinary 'talent for endurance'.

That it took so long for one remotely sensible answer is astonishing.

lochindaal

Alain Prost was 450th in last years Etape and he's now 55.

7hrs 32mins.

emx

P_Tucker wrote:

That it took so long for one remotely sensible answer is astonishing.

if only you had come along sooner fella - you could have put us all straight.....

Zingzang

I don't know why everyone's going on about pro cyclists or F1 drivers. There is one type of sportsperson who is easily fitter than them:

Darts players.

Think about it. They're on their feet for hours at a time (unlike the other two, who sit on their a..ses), and they have to repeatedly perform unbelievable feats of skill with 14 pints of best bitter swilling around inside their bellies. These guys are the real pros.

You ask Button or Contador to perform at their respective sports with a skinful of ale inside them and they'd go to pieces. QED.

P_Tucker

emx wrote:

P_Tucker wrote:

That it took so long for one remotely sensible answer is astonishing.

if only you had come along sooner fella - you could have put us all straight.....

Yeah, but the hilarious unmitigated bolleaux is what keeps me coming back to BR.

freehub

My coach used to have a couple of people round who races superbikes and they went on the computrainer to improve their fitness - they had no interest in cycle racing.