Racetrack improvements - CS8

Origamist

rjsterry wrote:

Noticed they've re-jigged the lanes on Chelsea Bridge as well. Looks like it's going to be 2 lanes + cycle lane northbound and a single lane southbound (without cycle lane :? ).

Discussions are still ongoing about what provision will be deployed southbound. I understand a 1.5m cycle lane has now been mooted by TFL, but Wandsworth Cyclists are unhappy: http://wcc-streets.blogspot.com/

rjsterry

Ian.B wrote:

My first experience of riding on the blue stuff. 1st impression is it's very bright, not sure that a long stretch of it in the sunshine will be very easy on the eye.

I agree that most of Millbank would have been better left alone, but a cycle lane along the last eastbound stretch leading up to LBR will be a big improvement.

It dulls down fairly quickly. By the looks of it that last stretch to LBR will be sans bleu - no spray paint setting out marks - which is of course where it is most needed.

@Origamist: It does seem a bit odd to put a generous provision northbound, but little southbound. I would have thought that most people use it equally in both directions to and from work.

notsoblue

Ian.B wrote:

My first experience of riding on the blue stuff. 1st impression is it's very bright, not sure that a long stretch of it in the sunshine will be very easy on the eye.

+1

Bassjunkieuk

I've found it rather "amusing" trying to navigate E/B along Millbank the last few times I've gone down there. I'm a bit fortunate in that I'm usually coming from VB which means that drivers and other riders have to negotiate the turn before letting rip - consequently I can normally jump on the rear bumper of a car and get a tow :-) The section by Tate/Millbank tower is a bit of a nuisance and I do fear that now it's gone down to 1 car + 1 blue bike lane drivers will start to think we are "in the wrong lane" if we stray outside the blue area....I've already had a long(ish) discussion about one of my videos with a friend via Facebook with him insisiting it was my fault as I wasn't using the cycle lane (incident occured by Clapham Common/Rookery Road) and blocking the cars passage.....it's like talking to a brick wall sometimes going round in circles explaining there is no wrong lane, I'm a road user and will use whatever part of the road I like /rant over

Having used CS7 since it's inception and seeing the sheer amount of riders that use it I think it can only be a good thing in the end, in theory if there is a certain amount of cyclists along Millbank then drivers will have to give them room?

Origamist

rjsterry wrote:

Ian.B wrote:

My first experience of riding on the blue stuff. 1st impression is it's very bright, not sure that a long stretch of it in the sunshine will be very easy on the eye.

I agree that most of Millbank would have been better left alone, but a cycle lane along the last eastbound stretch leading up to LBR will be a big improvement.

@Origamist: It does seem a bit odd to put a generous provision northbound, but little southbound. I would have thought that most people use it equally in both directions to and from work.

It does appear that the improvements to Chelsea Bridge northbound (a wider bus lane) are compromising what can be done southbound. Unfortunately, these trade-offs are unavoidable when half-hearted, but well meaning cycle infrastructure is retro-fitted into a city with competing modal demands. One can only hope that it will improve over time...

Origamist

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

I've already had a long(ish) discussion about one of my videos with a friend via Facebook with him insisiting it was my fault as I wasn't using the cycle lane (incident occured by Clapham Common/Rookery Road) and blocking the cars passage.....it's like talking to a brick wall sometimes going round in circles explaining there is no wrong lane, I'm a road user and will use whatever part of the road I like /rant over

Damned if you do, damned if you don't there. That said, I generally ignore the CS lane at that junction as it invites hooks.

Bassjunkieuk

Origamist wrote:

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

I've already had a long(ish) discussion about one of my videos with a friend via Facebook with him insisiting it was my fault as I wasn't using the cycle lane (incident occured by Clapham Common/Rookery Road) and blocking the cars passage.....it's like talking to a brick wall sometimes going round in circles explaining there is no wrong lane, I'm a road user and will use whatever part of the road I like /rant over

Damned if you do, damned if you don't there. That said, I generally ignore the CS lane at that junction as it invites hooks.

That's pretty much what I was doing in this clip (it's the Lovely Audi's one) - I had just overtaken the silver car + a few cyclists and stayed in the middle of the LH lane as I was about 5-10m (at most) away from the junction and still doing a fair speed. Silver car toots and is gesturing I should be over to the left, I wobble a bit (possibly as I stuck my finger up....;-)) and the second car speeds round then immediately turns....having said that given the amount of times I pass that jucntion without trouble it's not too bad.

kurako

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

Origamist wrote:

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

I've already had a long(ish) discussion about one of my videos with a friend via Facebook with him insisiting it was my fault as I wasn't using the cycle lane (incident occured by Clapham Common/Rookery Road) and blocking the cars passage.....it's like talking to a brick wall sometimes going round in circles explaining there is no wrong lane, I'm a road user and will use whatever part of the road I like /rant over

Damned if you do, damned if you don't there. That said, I generally ignore the CS lane at that junction as it invites hooks.

That's pretty much what I was doing in this clip (it's the Lovely Audi's one) - I had just overtaken the silver car + a few cyclists and stayed in the middle of the LH lane as I was about 5-10m (at most) away from the junction and still doing a fair speed. Silver car toots and is gesturing I should be over to the left, I wobble a bit (possibly as I stuck my finger up....;-)) and the second car speeds round then immediately turns....having said that given the amount of times I pass that jucntion without trouble it's not too bad.

That junction is a royal PITA. The worst drivers are the ones that overtake, decide they want to turn, then realise 'oh f*ck where did the bike go?' and stop. By which point I am normally heading towards their rear bumper having dropped in behind. Now I just avoid it altogether and go by York Road which is also in the process of being 'improved'.

rjsterry

Kurako wrote:

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

Origamist wrote:

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

I've already had a long(ish) discussion about one of my videos with a friend via Facebook with him insisiting it was my fault as I wasn't using the cycle lane (incident occured by Clapham Common/Rookery Road) and blocking the cars passage.....it's like talking to a brick wall sometimes going round in circles explaining there is no wrong lane, I'm a road user and will use whatever part of the road I like /rant over

Damned if you do, damned if you don't there. That said, I generally ignore the CS lane at that junction as it invites hooks.

That's pretty much what I was doing in this clip (it's the Lovely Audi's one) - I had just overtaken the silver car + a few cyclists and stayed in the middle of the LH lane as I was about 5-10m (at most) away from the junction and still doing a fair speed. Silver car toots and is gesturing I should be over to the left, I wobble a bit (possibly as I stuck my finger up....;-)) and the second car speeds round then immediately turns....having said that given the amount of times I pass that jucntion without trouble it's not too bad.

That junction is a royal PITA. The worst drivers are the ones that overtake, decide they want to turn, then realise 'oh f*ck where did the bike go?' and stop. By which point I am normally heading towards their rear bumper having dropped in behind. Now I just avoid it altogether and go by York Road which is also in the process of being 'improved'.

Nah, the worst ones are the ones that actually take you out closely followed by the completely oblivious (had a chat with one guy who was totally unaware he'd nearly put another cyclist in hospital) - at least the guys that stop aren't going to drive straight over you (even if you do have to drop the anchors to avoid rear-ending them).

kurako

rjsterry wrote:

Kurako wrote:

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

Origamist wrote:

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

I've already had a long(ish) discussion about one of my videos with a friend via Facebook with him insisiting it was my fault as I wasn't using the cycle lane (incident occured by Clapham Common/Rookery Road) and blocking the cars passage.....it's like talking to a brick wall sometimes going round in circles explaining there is no wrong lane, I'm a road user and will use whatever part of the road I like /rant over

Damned if you do, damned if you don't there. That said, I generally ignore the CS lane at that junction as it invites hooks.

That's pretty much what I was doing in this clip (it's the Lovely Audi's one) - I had just overtaken the silver car + a few cyclists and stayed in the middle of the LH lane as I was about 5-10m (at most) away from the junction and still doing a fair speed. Silver car toots and is gesturing I should be over to the left, I wobble a bit (possibly as I stuck my finger up....;-)) and the second car speeds round then immediately turns....having said that given the amount of times I pass that jucntion without trouble it's not too bad.

That junction is a royal PITA. The worst drivers are the ones that overtake, decide they want to turn, then realise 'oh f*ck where did the bike go?' and stop. By which point I am normally heading towards their rear bumper having dropped in behind. Now I just avoid it altogether and go by York Road which is also in the process of being 'improved'.

Nah, the worst ones are the ones that actually take you out closely followed by the completely oblivious (had a chat with one guy who was totally unaware he'd nearly put another cyclist in hospital) - at least the guys that stop aren't going to drive straight over you (even if you do have to drop the anchors to avoid rear-ending them).

Yeah. You've got a point there but I'm never in the cycle lane by that junction anyway. I tend to position myself so I can nip past if they turn except sometimes you end up going 'Turn then... go on turn....oh no they're stopping... shoulder check....there's a car in the
other lane.... oh faaaaack'.

Bassjunkieuk

Kurako wrote:

Yeah. You've got a point there but I'm never in the cycle lane by that junction anyway. I tend to position myself so I can nip past if they turn except sometimes you end up going 'Turn then... go on turn....oh no they're stopping... shoulder check....there's a car in the
other lane.... oh faaaaack'.

Here's my clip of the worst incident I've had there. I admit I may have provoked the second driver as I don't react too kindly to being tooted by the first car, but the second cars driving was completely un-called for.

Origamist

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

Kurako wrote:

Yeah. You've got a point there but I'm never in the cycle lane by that junction anyway. I tend to position myself so I can nip past if they turn except sometimes you end up going 'Turn then... go on turn....oh no they're stopping... shoulder check....there's a car in the
other lane.... oh faaaaack'.

Here's my clip of the worst incident I've had there. I admit I may have provoked the second driver as I don't react too kindly to being tooted by the first car, but the second cars driving was completely un-called for.

I've been experimenting with the ouside lane there, however, this approach requires good timing, a gap in the traffic flow, confidence and speed.

Bassjunkieuk

Origamist wrote:

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

Kurako wrote:

Yeah. You've got a point there but I'm never in the cycle lane by that junction anyway. I tend to position myself so I can nip past if they turn except sometimes you end up going 'Turn then... go on turn....oh no they're stopping... shoulder check....there's a car in the
other lane.... oh faaaaack'.

Here's my clip of the worst incident I've had there. I admit I may have provoked the second driver as I don't react too kindly to being tooted by the first car, but the second cars driving was completely un-called for.

I've been experimenting with the ouside lane there, however, this approach requires good timing, a gap in the traffic flow, confidence and speed.

Yeah, I'm starting to think that's the way to go. I reckon that due to the sheer volume of riders the only reason a car driver needs to be in L1 at that point is for turning that corner! I've had a few times where I've been splitting L1/L2 and still see cars try it with cyclists.....

kurako

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

Origamist wrote:

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

Kurako wrote:

Yeah. You've got a point there but I'm never in the cycle lane by that junction anyway. I tend to position myself so I can nip past if they turn except sometimes you end up going 'Turn then... go on turn....oh no they're stopping... shoulder check....there's a car in the
other lane.... oh faaaaack'.

Here's my clip of the worst incident I've had there. I admit I may have provoked the second driver as I don't react too kindly to being tooted by the first car, but the second cars driving was completely un-called for.

I've been experimenting with the ouside lane there, however, this approach requires good timing, a gap in the traffic flow, confidence and speed.

Yeah, I'm starting to think that's the way to go. I reckon that due to the sheer volume of riders the only reason a car driver needs to be in L1 at that point is for turning that corner! I've had a few times where I've been splitting L1/L2 and still see cars try it with cyclists.....

We're getting a little off topic here since we're meant to be talking about CS8

The main problem I have with what they did with that section is to move the centre line over to fit a narrow bike lane. It was always a bit of a hairy junction but it seems that the blue lane was added to allow cyclists to be 'comfortably overaken at any time' to quote a phrase used in relation to the bus lane on CB.

The fact that they are encouraging/ forcing cyclists to be on the extreme left approaching a fast left hand turn-off while also making overtaking 'easier' is something I don't understand. It's as though the people tasked with implementing the CS scheme have never actually ridden a bike in London.

greg66_tri_v2.0

I made two observations about the Thick Blue Line between VBL and LBR this morning.

First, no matter how wide you make a cycle lane, a single rider on a hybrid will always ride smack bang in the middle of it.

Secondly, it looked bloody slippery with some rain on it. It had a sheen to it, FFS!

rjsterry

Greg66 wrote:

I made two observations about the Thick Blue Line between VBL and LBR this morning.

First, no matter how wide you make a cycle lane, a single rider on a hybrid will always ride smack bang in the middle of it.

Secondly, it looked bloody slippery with some rain on it. It had a sheen to it, FFS!

It looks slippery, but isn't; if anything it's grippier than normal tarmac. It's when they put all the white bits on that it gets slippery.

jzed

Greg66 wrote:

I made two observations about the Thick Blue Line between VBL and LBR this morning.

First, no matter how wide you make a cycle lane, a single rider on a hybrid will always ride smack bang in the middle of it.

Secondly, it looked bloody slippery with some rain on it. It had a sheen to it, FFS!

Does it not also clash with your outfit? So you become the ultimate ninja cyclist during the day?

Origamist

rjsterry wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

I made two observations about the Thick Blue Line between VBL and LBR this morning.

First, no matter how wide you make a cycle lane, a single rider on a hybrid will always ride smack bang in the middle of it.

Secondly, it looked bloody slippery with some rain on it. It had a sheen to it, FFS!

It looks slippery, but isn't; if anything it's grippier than normal tarmac. It's when they put all the white bits on that it gets slippery.

On the blue CS lanes they use two types of surfacing - high friction (generally around junctions) and non high-friction, along clear stretches of road. It's the latter that particularly takes on the appearance of a skid-pan, but in reality, grip is fine on the blue surface.

greg66_tri_v2.0

JZed wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

I made two observations about the Thick Blue Line between VBL and LBR this morning.

First, no matter how wide you make a cycle lane, a single rider on a hybrid will always ride smack bang in the middle of it.

Secondly, it looked bloody slippery with some rain on it. It had a sheen to it, FFS!

Does it not also clash with your outfit? So you become the ultimate ninja cyclist during the day?

I blend, dude. I blend...

jonginge

Slow cars in the blue stuff this morning. Gah! Get out of my way I want to go faster than this

Wrath Rob

It looks like it extends a fair way up to LBR so might help with the approach after all. I'm still reserving judgement until the white lines go down and I see cars start to observe it

jzed

Wrath Rob wrote:

I see cars start to observe it

I rode up CS7 last night - there are sections with no white lines, just blue stuff, and cars seemed to ignore it, park in it, drive in it, stop in it to turn left, pedestrians seem to see it as an extension of the pavement for a game of frogger - mind you cars seem to be completely unpredicatable around there - the only thing predictability is that someone will do something stupid.

sketchley

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

Origamist wrote:

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

Kurako wrote:

Yeah. You've got a point there but I'm never in the cycle lane by that junction anyway. I tend to position myself so I can nip past if they turn except sometimes you end up going 'Turn then... go on turn....oh no they're stopping... shoulder check....there's a car in the
other lane.... oh faaaaack'.

Here's my clip of the worst incident I've had there. I admit I may have provoked the second driver as I don't react too kindly to being tooted by the first car, but the second cars driving was completely un-called for.

I've been experimenting with the ouside lane there, however, this approach requires good timing, a gap in the traffic flow, confidence and speed.

Yeah, I'm starting to think that's the way to go. I reckon that due to the sheer volume of riders the only reason a car driver needs to be in L1 at that point is for turning that corner! I've had a few times where I've been splitting L1/L2 and still see cars try it with cyclists.....

Been doing that for a while, getting up to speed (20-23mph) then pullling out to give turning cars room. If you are going quick enough you can slot in to the traffic in the right hand lane. In most case a simple hand signal and the drivers give you room too. No where near as confortantional as staying in the blue lane as the drivers in the left lane, most of whom turn left, seem to think that they can accelerate past all the cyclist then simply indicate and the cyclist will stop for them, when they don't it goes wrong. If the drivers slowed down early while indicating and waited for a gap cyclist will either slow down and leave a gap or go round. Either way at this junction I'm now either in primary in the left lane to stop driver going round or moving to outside to go round the turning vehical.

rjsterry

The other option is to turn left into Rookery Road as well, head down North Street and either swing right to head for Vauxhall or straight on down Silverthorne Road to QTR, Chelsea Bridge and thence to the hallowed Embankment, experiencing both CS7 and CS8.

sketchley

rjsterry wrote:

The other option is to turn left into Rookery Road as well, head down North Street and either swing right to head for Vauxhall or straight on down Silverthorne Road to QTR, Chelsea Bridge and thence to the hallowed Embankment, experiencing both CS7 and CS8.

or forget CS7 entirely, head west to Kingston, into Richmond Park at Richmond Gate out Rowhampton Gate. Priory Lane > Putney Bridge > NKR > Racetrack all the way.

Not done this on the way in, done it several times the other way round on the way home.....

Clever Pun

JZed wrote:

Was taking shirts into the office so spare the stoning

that's not the stats way of thinking is it?

fold them up it's easy to do and they don't crease if you do it right.

Carry on

jzed

Clever Pun wrote:

JZed wrote:

Was taking shirts into the office so spare the stoning

that's not the stats way of thinking is it?

fold them up it's easy to do and they don't crease if you do it right.

Carry on

With laptop and all other stuff that gets carried in the bag keeping the shirt crease-free is a chore - so I once a week or fortnight ferry a load of shirts in and bring the washing home.

Does not affect my stats as I do it in the evenings after the ride. Easy way would be just to give up a days cycling and bring them in - but avoid PT like the plague

kurako

rjsterry wrote:

The other option is to turn left into Rookery Road as well, head down North Street and either swing right to head for Vauxhall or straight on down Silverthorne Road to QTR, Chelsea Bridge and thence to the hallowed Embankment, experiencing both CS7 and CS8.

Or ignore the whole palaver, go down Garratt Lane to Wandsworth Town and you have a choice of WB (although I can never quite work out how to get to Chelsea Embankment after the football ground) or York Road with opportunity to cross at BB, CB or VB. The drag past the dogs home down to Vauxhall Cross is pretty good and fairly light free.

sketchley

Kurako wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

The other option is to turn left into Rookery Road as well, head down North Street and either swing right to head for Vauxhall or straight on down Silverthorne Road to QTR, Chelsea Bridge and thence to the hallowed Embankment, experiencing both CS7 and CS8.

Or ignore the whole palaver, go down Garratt Lane to Wandsworth Town and you have a choice of WB (although I can never quite work out how to get to Chelsea Embankment after the football ground) or York Road with opportunity to cross at BB, CB or VB. The drag past the dogs home down to Vauxhall Cross is pretty good and fairly light free.

Take first right at lights coming off WB on to Town Mead Road, follow to roundabout at Sainsbury's go first left (sort of straight on i.e. not into sainsbury's) keep following road going straight at any mini roundabouts, then straight on a first big roundabout then straight on again at next past barriers into Chelsea Harbour, turn left and go up the hill past imperial wharf station then left at roundabout and first right at next roundabout on to lots road. Follow to end turn right on to Embankment.

To get to York Road just go straight across the RB at the south side of WB coming from Wandsworth Town.

kurako

Sketchley wrote:

Kurako wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

The other option is to turn left into Rookery Road as well, head down North Street and either swing right to head for Vauxhall or straight on down Silverthorne Road to QTR, Chelsea Bridge and thence to the hallowed Embankment, experiencing both CS7 and CS8.

Or ignore the whole palaver, go down Garratt Lane to Wandsworth Town and you have a choice of WB (although I can never quite work out how to get to Chelsea Embankment after the football ground) or York Road with opportunity to cross at BB, CB or VB. The drag past the dogs home down to Vauxhall Cross is pretty good and fairly light free.

Take first right at lights coming off WB on to Town Mead Road, follow to roundabout at Sainsbury's go first left (sort of straight on i.e. not into sainsbury's) keep following road going straight at any mini roundabouts, then straight on a first big roundabout then straight on again at next past barriers into Chelsea Harbour, turn left and go up the hill past imperial wharf station then left at roundabout and first right at next roundabout on to lots road. Follow to end turn right on to Embankment.

To get to York Road just go straight across the RB at the south side of WB coming from Wandsworth Town.

Is that where that road goes? I always assumed it's some sort of dead end. Normally I'd go straight on to Parson's Green but then it get's messy there with all the traffic. Will definitely try the Chelsea Harbour route. Ta.