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Do pure race tyres really help us amateurs

mccutchiemccutchie Posts: 15
edited April 2011 in Amateur race
Guys, has anyone raced on Michelin Krylion tyres and if so how do they compare against the pro race 3.

Do tyres really make that much of a difference ?
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  • antflyantfly Posts: 3,448
    Yes, they make a significant difference. They are just about the only thing on the bike that does.
    Smarter than the average bear.
  • amaferangaamaferanga Posts: 6,789
    Krylions are great training tyres, but they just don't grip as well as the Pro Race 3 IME.
    More problems but still living....
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    I use Pro Race 3 as training tyres, and Veloflex Records as race tyres. The Pro Race 3 roll and grip so much better than the Krylions.

    I will put whatever tyre on the bike that provides the best performance, surely you would do everything you can legally to get the best performance when racing.
  • ju5t1nju5t1n Posts: 2,028
    antfly wrote:
    Yes, they make a significant difference. They are just about the only thing on the bike that does.
    Exactly how significant is the difference? ...have any studies been published that I can look at?
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    edited March 2011
    ju5t1n wrote:
    antfly wrote:
    Yes, they make a significant difference. They are just about the only thing on the bike that does.
    Exactly how significant is the difference? ...have any studies been published that I can look at?

    I am sure if you look around you will find details of rolling resistance and grip differences between tyres. Pretty certain I have seen a spreadsheet with different tyres on it, and the different rolling resistances etc.

    Even riding on different tyres you can feel whether a tyre rolls quicker etc. I used a Lithion for the worst of the winter, put my Pro Race 3 's back on a the bike just feels quicker. Put my race tyres on the same wheels and they are even quicker, just not as durable. How much exactly is hard to tell unless I did back to back tests.
  • emxemx Posts: 164
    you don't need a study to tell you that a lightweight, high quality tyre will outperform a heavier, lower quality tyre, surely..?
  • cframecframe Posts: 171
    I went from Bonty Race Lites to Pro Race 3s and was astonished at the difference, the weight alone gets the bike spinning up quicker (you want as little weight as possible at the far edges of the rims because of the rotational forces) and they gave so much more grip it was unreal.

    They were also generally a lot quicker just rolling along freewheeling.

    I'm now running Vittoria Pave Evo CG's now which are also fantastically light and quick rolling.
    How's that for a slice of fried gold?
  • Tom ButcherTom Butcher Posts: 7,137
    I agree there is a significant difference between a cheap training tyre and a full on race tyre.

    The Krylion is a pretty good tyre though - personally I don't think there's that much between them and a ProRace - I still use ProRace for racing on mind but I know a guy who does race on Krylions and he's a very good bike handler - can easily open a gap on most people in corners. So if you are comparing Krylions and ProRace I reckon there will be a difference but not that much.

    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • sheffsimonsheffsimon Posts: 1,282
    I know I can corner faster on Ultremos than PR3. So that makes a difference for me, can get gaps out of corners, and use that as a point to attack.

    Straight line, dont know between the above two, but certainly bike feels better on Ultremos than on my Conti training tyres.
  • You should all be racing on tubs - period.
  • celbianchicelbianchi Posts: 854
    You should all be racing on tubs - period.

    Is the correct answer.
  • wjcrombiewjcrombie Posts: 43
    I did a Hog hill winter series race this year on continental Gatorskins, thinking I would give up a bit of rolling resistance to ensure I did not puncture. End result is that i Almost lost the front end about 3 times. There was definately less grip. since then I have raced on the Kryllions and I have not had any grip issues. My race wheels are tubs and they have not been brought out yet this year.
    I have raced the last few seasons on Pro3's and IMO they offer very good grip and rolling resistance. I am quite dubious about a previous comment about being able to corner faster on Ultimos vs pro3s. On pro3's I have never had a problem keeping up with anyone in front of me and most of my racinf last year was at national B level so everyone was riiding good tyres.

    In summary there is definately a difference in grip between training and racing tyres, but once you get a good racing tyre, there is probably not enough difference to actually notice.
  • ju5t1nju5t1n Posts: 2,028
    emx wrote:
    you don't need a study to tell you that a lightweight, high quality tyre will outperform a heavier, lower quality tyre, surely..?
    Well yes – quite clearly I do – I honestly had no idea that my tyre choice would make anything other than a very marginal difference, especially when inflated to 9 bar plus.

    I don’t race at a high level – I’m only a third cat and just ride the local road races and circuits – I managed half a dozen top 10s last year using Continental Grand Prix 4 Seasons – I’ve always used these – principally to avoid punctures.

    So you reckon I’d notice the difference if I used a race specifc tyre then? (can’t afford to upgrade to sprints and tubs)
  • markos1963markos1963 Posts: 3,724
    Puncturing is just as likely to happen on a heavy tyre as a light one. Why relegate yourself to a lower place. You're racing so race to win not to come tenth.
    I race at a lower but I use the best I can afford, the difference is amazing in crits, being able to hammer through the bends at full pelt gives you such a big advantage( which I need cos' I'm useless on the straights :( )
  • ju5t1nju5t1n Posts: 2,028
    What if I took the mudguards off too, would that make a difference? :D:D:D
  • ju5t1nju5t1n Posts: 2,028
    Pro Race 3s seem to be the tyre of choice here, any other recommendations or shall I give these a try?
  • ju5t1nju5t1n Posts: 2,028
    Ok, my pro race 3s are ordered – I’ll be back to let y’all know when I start winning
  • gsk82gsk82 Posts: 2,767
    how do thesecomparetoconti tyres? how doe the gp4000s compare to otherconti tyres?
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • mattshropsmattshrops Posts: 1,158
    presumably the noticeable difference is on a sliding scale pro rata to the level you are racing at?
    what i mean is if youre pretty slow(me) the difference would probably be quite small??
    and like wise de udder way round?
    please advise.
    Death or Glory- Just another Story
  • P_TuckerP_Tucker Posts: 1,878
    It's just delicious that everyone assumes that fancy tyres make an appreciable difference without any evidence, or the old "they feel faster". ANYTHING feels faster when you've spent £££ on it.
  • emxemx Posts: 164
    P_Tucker wrote:
    It's just delicious that everyone assumes that fancy tyres make an appreciable difference without any evidence, or the old "they feel faster". ANYTHING feels faster when you've spent £££ on it.

    not tried any yourself then..?
  • markos1963markos1963 Posts: 3,724
    P_Tucker wrote:
    It's just delicious that everyone assumes that fancy tyres make an appreciable difference without any evidence, or the old "they feel faster". ANYTHING feels faster when you've spent £££ on it.

    There's more to a tyre being 'fast' than just rolling resistance(if that was the case we'd race on 25mm+ tyres) In general cheap tyres offer less grip cornering and you can loose a lot of time or even be dropped if you have to pussyfoot through turns because you can't corner.
  • Tom ButcherTom Butcher Posts: 7,137
    P_Tucker wrote:
    It's just delicious that everyone assumes that fancy tyres make an appreciable difference without any evidence, or the old "they feel faster". ANYTHING feels faster when you've spent £££ on it.

    There is evidence - people have done tests of rolling resistance and grip - have a google and you'll find the results.

    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • P_TuckerP_Tucker Posts: 1,878
    P_Tucker wrote:
    It's just delicious that everyone assumes that fancy tyres make an appreciable difference without any evidence, or the old "they feel faster". ANYTHING feels faster when you've spent £££ on it.

    There is evidence - people have done tests of rolling resistance and grip - have a google and you'll find the results.

    Where did I say there was no evidence? I was merely pointing out that based on the quality of the responses on this thread, no-one has actually looked it up.

    For the record, obviously I do use fancy tyres when racing.
  • markos1963markos1963 Posts: 3,724
    P_Tucker wrote:
    P_Tucker wrote:
    It's just delicious that everyone assumes that fancy tyres make an appreciable difference without any evidence, or the old "they feel faster". ANYTHING feels faster when you've spent £££ on it.

    There is evidence - people have done tests of rolling resistance and grip - have a google and you'll find the results.

    Where did I say there was no evidence? I was merely pointing out that based on the quality of the responses on this thread, no-one has actually looked it up.

    For the record, obviously I do use fancy tyres when racing.

    Not sure where you're going with this. Are you saying that you want all forum replies to come with pages of scientific evidence? :roll:
  • PinnerPinner Posts: 19
    Didn't tour magazine have a big tyre test a few years back? I read it and bought the test winners (Gp400S) and notice a huge difference from my gatorskins, starting with the 150gr of weight I saved! Also much quicker rolling and seemingly infinite grip. Definitely worth the money.
    Custom 2010 Stumpjumper FSR Pro AM
    Custom 2009 Specialized Tarmac Pro SL2
  • DavidBelcherDavidBelcher Posts: 2,684
    You should all be racing on tubs - period.

    Hmm....I can feel a rant about tubs coming on, mainly re. the significant "haves" and "have nots" gulf that's gradually opened up in 'cross in recent seasons, with those that can afford uber-expensive tubs (the cheapest decent ones cost about the same each as a pair of high-end CX clinchers) and the flash wheels that go with them invariably dominating results week in, week out. Then there are the paupers like me who have to make do with clinchers on grounds of cost and practicality (in the event of a puncture) and are at the bottom of the food chain. The "haves" more often than not have such outgoings underwritten by a sponsor in the bike trade, too. Oh for a return to the days when even serious contenders used (affordable) green Michelin Muds or Vredestein Campos....

    OK, rant over.

    David
    "It is not enough merely to win; others must lose." - Gore Vidal
  • ZachariahZachariah Posts: 782
    Just to be scientific, you should arrange a race where the people with the fancy kit swap over with those that don't, just to make sure it is the kit that's making the difference.
  • mattshropsmattshrops Posts: 1,158
    might be wrong but i suspect the "haves" have because that is what they choose to spend all their spare money on(not including sponsored) and probably this same level of obsession applied to their training is what causes them to win, rather than the standard of their tyres. and the sponsored only get that way after they start to do well, with or without tubs or whatevers.
    Death or Glory- Just another Story
  • celbianchicelbianchi Posts: 854
    markos1963 wrote:
    P_Tucker wrote:
    P_Tucker wrote:
    It's just delicious that everyone assumes that fancy tyres make an appreciable difference without any evidence, or the old "they feel faster". ANYTHING feels faster when you've spent £££ on it.

    There is evidence - people have done tests of rolling resistance and grip - have a google and you'll find the results.

    Where did I say there was no evidence? I was merely pointing out that based on the quality of the responses on this thread, no-one has actually looked it up.

    For the record, obviously I do use fancy tyres when racing.

    Not sure where you're going with this. Are you saying that you want all forum replies to come with pages of scientific evidence? :roll:


    I think this P_TUCKER character is a fan of SCIENCE. The mho.
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