I am eating enough

cexton

HI all,

I seem to be really suffering with rides over 30 miles, I try an eat a piece of flapjack every hour and normally take 2 litres of water for a 3 hour ride. I feel dreadful towards the end of the ride and really start to struggle with the pace. Once I get home and have something to eat I feel ok initially but then I feel pretty crap (headache) and tired for the rest of the day/next day.

I am 6ft and weigh 12 Stone if this help at all.

My normal daily food consists of the following:

Breakfast

Porridge or Poached egg on toast (2 slices of bread)

Lunch

Beans on toast (2 slices) or ham sandwich
Yoghurt

Snack

Banana
Apple

Tea

Meat and veg or pasta of somekind

Any help or advise would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Chris

BillyMansell

Why do you believe it's to do with how much you eat?

Some other things to consider;

Are you used to doing rides over 30 miles?
Are you mentally as well as physically prepared for longer rides?
How often are you doing these rides?
Do you ride to heart rate, power, cadence. speed or some other metric?

There's a whole host of reasons why you could be flagging after 30 miles so the more information you can give the better.

irezumi

If that is really all youre eating for an average day then it's nowhere near enough, unless youre eating gargantuan portions.

Although as mentioned it could be an underlying issue causing the problems as opposed to your diet.

cexton

I normally ride to work 3 times a week which is a 20 mile round trip and I will probably do a small run of about 4 miles once a week. I think it might be food related as I am fine doing ride to work and can average a good speed 19 mph

I do a larger ride at weekends anything between 30-50 miles.

I dont use a heart rate monitor or anything like that.

My food intake today was:

Two poached eggs and toast
Beans (half a can) on toast
Yoghurt
Orange
Banana
Salmon and pasta

sampras38

As already said it's difficult to say what the problem is, but my guess is you're just not doing the longer rides enough. You really don't need to eat that much on a 3 hour ride if you're fit enough, especially if you're riding after a decent breakfast (allowing some time for it to digest).

On a full tank you should have approx 2 hours of riding in you without the need to add any additional energy, and to be honest you're not really going to get any benefit from a flapjack every hour as it will take too long to convert to energy anyway for a 30 mile ride.

Everyone's fitness level is different but for me personally I only tend to eat one item of food if I'm doing 50 miles. Any less and I can get round at a decent pace without the need to eat any additional food. I may eat 1 banana or so after 2 hours but thats about it.

For any rides longer than 50 I'll take on the necessary carbohydrate.

Are you drinking enough on the bike, as this is often an area a lot of riders ignore and it can make a massive difference to how you feel.

BillyMansell

cexton wrote:

I normally ride to work 3 times a week which is a 20 mile round trip and I will probably do a small run of about 4 miles once a week. I think it might be food related as I am fine doing ride to work and can average a good speed 19 mph

I do a larger ride at weekends anything between 30-50 miles.

I dont use a heart rate monitor or anything like that.

My food intake today was:

Two poached eggs and toast
Beans (half a can) on toast
Yoghurt
Orange
Banana
Salmon and pasta

You're food intake looks ok and as you've previously said you keep yourself hydrated.

By comparison, when I'm doing 50-60 mile training rides I'll start the day with a couple of bananas for breakfast and take an 800ml bottle of water with some energy in it, and at this time of year that's fine for getting me home in good shape.

19mph is a good pace that, I imagine, requires considerable effort. Do you try and maintain that same sort of pace and effort when doing the longer rides? If so, that may be the problem in that you're not pacing your effort effectively across the ride.

Also, do you spin a good cadence or push a bigger gear? Being able to spin a good cadence can help with endurance on longer rides.

Slack

I think this is a training related issue. i.e. a physical adaption problem.

If you're doing an average of 19mph on a commute, I suspect you're working quite hard. If this is the case you're training your body to burn carbs only. You might need to consider taking the longer rides (3 hours plus) at a slower pace, to train your body to use a combination of fat and carbs as fuel.

In other words, your current style of ridig may be just training your body to go fast, without any emphasis on endurance.

Biig assumption I appreciate, but something you may have missed.

cexton

On the longer rides I cannot maintain the 19 mph average its normally more like 15-16. I do try and keep up a good cadence and dont turn a massive gear.

I did a ride on sunday whch was 50 miles and my average was 15.6 mph. I am just a bit concerned how bad i feel after 30 ish miles and then after I finish.

I guess I just need to keep up the training to let my body get used to it and I should see an improvement over time.

squeeler

I'm a bit taller and a couple of stone heavier but half a can of beans on toast does not sound like a decent lunch for a 6 footer who leads an active lifestyle, but maybe thats why I'm heavier than you?
You say you feel dreadful towards the end, do you feel dreadful because you are knackered or dreadful because your stomach is empty and rumbling, if it's the latter than maybe you need to eat more, if its the former maybe you are just not fit enough yet to do 30+ milers easily?

cexton

squeeler wrote:

I'm a bit taller and a couple of stone heavier but half a can of beans on toast does not sound like a decent lunch for a 6 footer who leads an active lifestyle, but maybe thats why I'm heavier than you?
You say you feel dreadful towards the end, do you feel dreadful because you are knackered or dreadful because your stomach is empty and rumbling, if it's the latter than maybe you need to eat more, if its the former maybe you are just not fit enough yet to do 30+ milers easily?

Maybe you are right my body probably needs to get used to the distance and I perhaps should eat more on the days I am more active.

irezumi

cexton wrote:

My food intake today was:

Two poached eggs and toast
Beans (half a can) on toast
Yoghurt
Orange
Banana
Salmon and pasta

This is really simple.

That isnt anywhere near enough food, ignore what people are saying regarding training etc for the time being. That diet wont even be near 2000kcals.

Unless thats an enourmous portion of pasta (ie over 100g dry weight) then you really need to eat more food. Consume a glass or two of milk throughout the day. eat 2 or 3 more of each fruit and eat some apples too. Put lots of seasoning/salad with the salmon/pasta. Eat a proper lunch too, Beans in a large jacket potato with some cheese, butter and salad would be ok etc.

Zoomer37

Good lord. Id finish what you eat on a daily basis in a morning. Why so worried about eating?

Eat well, eat often, get sleep and train hard. The amount of cals your currently getting im not suprised your struggling

freehub

The amount the OP eats is around the same amount I'm eating at the moment and I can do 50 mile rides without eating anything.

ADIHEAD

You don't mention using an energy drink? Why not fill one bottle with water, the other with an isotonic carb drink?

irezumi

freehub wrote:

The amount the OP eats is around the same amount I'm eating at the moment and I can do 50 mile rides without eating anything.

Eating the same amount and the same stuff may be different things, you may consume a much more rounded intake of nutrients. Also how long have you been eating like this and how long has the OP? Too many variables, not taking in to account BMR(Basal Metabolic Rate) etc.

cexton

Many thanks for all the replies.

I am going to take on all the advise and see how I get on over the next month.

mclarent

Just for fun, I worked out your calorie intake on myfitnesspal (which is where I log my diet).

Generic - Medium Free Range Egg Poached, 2 Egg - 140
Heinz - Baked Beans Half Tin, 1/2 tin - 151
Hovis 'seed Sensations' Rich & Roasted' - Bread, 3 Slice - 366
Activia - Fat Free - Cherry Yogurt, 4 oz - 70
Florida - Orange (Med), 1 Orange - 80
Banana Medium 7 - 8" - Banana, 1 Banana - 105
Marshalls - Spiral Pasta, 200 g - 688
Fresh Scottish Salmon Fillets - Salmon Fillets, 100 g - 183

Total: 1783.

You can increase or decrease that total as you see fit, but assuming I am correct, given that you should probably be targetting around 2000-2250 per day, you're clearly underfuelled for the day, even without taking into account exercise.

Now, assuming you're riding at around 15mph, 30 miles = 2 hours. For myself I would estimate calories burnt of at least 1200 (I work off a reasonably conservative 10mins = 100 calories for base miles, which slightly underestimates what my powermeter outputs for Kj).

On that basis you are looking at a calorie deficit of around 1400-1600 calories. So, either you're eating more than you say, you're spending most of your day in bed, or you need to eat more.

cexton

mclarent wrote:

Just for fun, I worked out your calorie intake on myfitnesspal (which is where I log my diet).

Generic - Medium Free Range Egg Poached, 2 Egg - 140
Heinz - Baked Beans Half Tin, 1/2 tin - 151
Hovis 'seed Sensations' Rich & Roasted' - Bread, 3 Slice - 366
Activia - Fat Free - Cherry Yogurt, 4 oz - 70
Florida - Orange (Med), 1 Orange - 80
Banana Medium 7 - 8" - Banana, 1 Banana - 105
Marshalls - Spiral Pasta, 200 g - 688
Fresh Scottish Salmon Fillets - Salmon Fillets, 100 g - 183

Total: 1783.

You can increase or decrease that total as you see fit, but assuming I am correct, given that you should probably be targetting around 2000-2250 per day, you're clearly underfuelled for the day, even without taking into account exercise.

Now, assuming you're riding at around 15mph, 30 miles = 2 hours. For myself I would estimate calories burnt of at least 1200 (I work off a reasonably conservative 10mins = 100 calories for base miles, which slightly underestimates what my powermeter outputs for Kj).

On that basis you are looking at a calorie deficit of around 1400-1600 calories. So, either you're eating more than you say, you're spending most of your day in bed, or you need to eat more.

Many thanks for this, so I am not eating enough so I need to sort this out first.

Paulie W

cexton wrote:

mclarent wrote:

Just for fun, I worked out your calorie intake on myfitnesspal (which is where I log my diet).

Generic - Medium Free Range Egg Poached, 2 Egg - 140
Heinz - Baked Beans Half Tin, 1/2 tin - 151
Hovis 'seed Sensations' Rich & Roasted' - Bread, 3 Slice - 366
Activia - Fat Free - Cherry Yogurt, 4 oz - 70
Florida - Orange (Med), 1 Orange - 80
Banana Medium 7 - 8" - Banana, 1 Banana - 105
Marshalls - Spiral Pasta, 200 g - 688
Fresh Scottish Salmon Fillets - Salmon Fillets, 100 g - 183

Total: 1783.

You can increase or decrease that total as you see fit, but assuming I am correct, given that you should probably be targetting around 2000-2250 per day, you're clearly underfuelled for the day, even without taking into account exercise.

Now, assuming you're riding at around 15mph, 30 miles = 2 hours. For myself I would estimate calories burnt of at least 1200 (I work off a reasonably conservative 10mins = 100 calories for base miles, which slightly underestimates what my powermeter outputs for Kj).

On that basis you are looking at a calorie deficit of around 1400-1600 calories. So, either you're eating more than you say, you're spending most of your day in bed, or you need to eat more.

Many thanks for this, so I am not eating enough so I need to sort this out first.

Just an observation but i assume that you are drinking during the day: tea, coffee (with milk, without?); orange juice? can of coke? I'm also going to go out on a limb and suggest that you have some kind of sauce with your pasta and salmon (vegetables maybe too? glug of oil? cheese maybe?) and perhaps some ketchup with your beans?

The raw figures above dont take account of these kind of hidden calories and most people consume a lot more calories than they estimate because of this.

Maybe you arent eating enough on a daily basis although your problem doesnt relate to your daily commute - my instinct is with the others here; that it is about how used you are to doing the longer ride.

mclarent

mclarent wrote:

So, either you're eating more than you say

*ahem*... You're completely correct of course...

Also, I should note that my calories burnt estimation is a personal rule of thumb, based on "base miles" on a relatively flat course. I actually train with a powermeter and therefore take the KJ burnt on a 1:1 basis, which works out slightly higher than the rule of thumb, but is probably around 5-10% less than actual calories burnt, depending on how efficient I might be (see other threads for details, think Alex has addressed this point well enough for anyone)

Oh, with the upshot being that you could easily be burning more calories than I've indicated if you're riding faster, a hillier course, heavier gear blahblahblah...

I would suggest you try keeping an honest food diary for a few training days, see how you come out, livestrong.com or myfitnesspal are both fit for purpose and very easy to use.

Simon Notley

One good indicator of whether you're eating enough is your weight. Are you losing weight?

Even if you aren't, you may still be under-eating or eating the wrong stuff.

Eating during a ride is far from the whole story. Even if you stuff you face constantly, you'll struggle to get more than a few hundred calories down during a ride. the main energy source will be glycogen from the muscles and liver (plus general body fat) which is built up during your 'down time' and relies on you being well nourished. make sure you eat well the day before and after a long ride. Try deliberately increasing your portion sizes or even adding and extra meal and see how it works for you.

As others have said, it may not be food related, but the diet you've described does seem a little minimalist. It also seems a little short on more complex nutrients - veggies,nuts, seeds, grains, legumes etc. Check out the article on vegetarian cycling (BR front page) for ideas.