I'm seriously thinking about going back to V-brakes

AndyOgy

No, I haven't got a cheap set of cable discs on a BSO. I've got Shimano XTR hydraulic disc brakes on a Rockhopper.

I'm not saying that they don't stop the bike. It's just that a well set up pair of the cheapest Avid V-Brakes is pretty much on par with these. Another way to put it is that; I'm not saying disc brakes are bad, but that V-Brakes can be amazing. And maybe we were quick to write them off so soon.

On top of that, V-Brakes are so much easier to look after. None of this business where you can't get oil anywhere near the pads, or the pads are screwed. Replacement V-Brake pads are a fraction of the cost of disc pads anyway. No worries about accidentally squeezing the lever when the wheel is off the bike. No special kit required to bleed them. Much more user serviceable.

I'm starting to wonder if fashion was my only reason for fitting disc brakes to my bike.

It'd be interesting to hear what you all think?

THIS THREAD HAS BEEN TIDIED UP DUE TO A SMALL AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHO CANNOT POST WITHOUT INSULTING THE OP. PLEASE KEEP POSTS RESPECTFUL AND CONSTRUCTIVE. THANK YOU.

ADMIN

bobpzero

you havn't tried formula yet?

Northwind

You sure your hydros aren't broken? I've got a set of Avid vs on one of my bikes and they're OK at best, poor at worst, even with expensive pads. Impressive compared to my old cantis but I'd never have them on a proper mountain bike.

AndyOgy

Northwind wrote:

You sure your hydros aren't broken? I've got a set of Avid vs on one of my bikes and they're OK at best, poor at worst, even with expensive pads. Impressive compared to my old cantis but I'd never have them on a proper mountain bike.

They're working fine. Like I say, it's not that I'm underwhelmed by their stopping power, or anything like that.

I just reckon that well set up V's can be just as good. Hell, even Tektro V's can offer incredible performance in all weathers - when set up properly.

tenfoot

My bike is 13 years old so is still running Avid V's. Everyone I ride with now has discs on their bikes, but they don't seem to be able to do anything on their bikes I can't.

I thave been thinking about changing my bike, just so that I get a bike with (hydraulic) disc brakes, but can't make my mind up whether it's worth it, just to be up with the technology.

MrChuck

Assuming you can get your Vs to work as consistently as discs in all conditions, for me the advantages are

- more-or-less no adjusting needed apart from pad changes
- rims last longer
- buckled rims not so much of a problem.

ride_whenever

It just isn't true...

A set of formulas will brake so well with such little force that your face will come off, you simply don't get the leverage with v-brakes.

You could equally find that your foot behind the crown works as well as hydros, but you don't have the control or the leverage advantage.

cooldad

You are wrong.
That is all.

jonnymojo

Depending on where you ride it could be a good move. If I go back to Thetford, it will be V's all the way. I currently live in the mountains and have just upgraded my 6" discs to 8" because I felt under braked, so don't think the V's would work for these conditions. Oddly enough, since only riding mountains, my pads seem to last ages

njee20

Yeeha +1.

supersonic

V brakes can be set up with the right pads to be very, very good. Ultimate braking power is determined by grip of the tyres.

I use V's on my Zaskar LE, and would run them on the Zaskar Team if they had V mounts.

As with any braking sysyem, they have pros and cons. I like my Avid Ultimates, Speed Dial 7 levers and KoolStop Eagle 2 pads because I can set up the leverage and modulation, pad clearance and bite point pretty much anyway I like and find them very easy to get on with. However I do like the hydros on my Mongoose which will see shorter, dirtier rides and where the 'power' is fractionally more if not as well controlled. No need to worry about the rims being dinged which I am more likely to do. So a time and place for these brakes for me.

BUT... if your XTR hydros or performing so badly, I think they are faulty or have contaminated pads and rotors.

nicklouse

sounds like poor set up and too much fiddling.

Ps I can set up V's, Cantis, Us, road calipers. and mech and hydro discs and i know what I run on my MTBs.

supersonic

U brakes, now they were powerful... Are even hehe.

nicklouse

almost as good as the rod brakes.

Mmmmm Felt.....

Dan_xz

I still use Avid V's on one bike which still gets occasional offroad use. I fstill like them a lot and or most riding there are fine, including the club rides I go on. It's on long downhill runs where the Juicy 5's I have on my other XC bike can scrub metres off my stopping distance without locking up and in these situations you can fell a massive difference in power and control. Actually I've just reduced the front rotor from 185 to 160 because it was biting a bit too hard in some lower speed situations. I did love that 185 power at speed though.

Otherwise, with a bit of a harder pull on the lever the Avids are good enough that I don't see it making any difference to my times.

Except in the wet...
...and rim-deep mud...
...and when the pads glaze over...
...and when my wheels go out of true due to some rather clumsy riding

I do note that I always found Avid V's more powerful than Shimano LX and XT V's and the Shimano discs (XT) I tried were less powerful than my Juicy 5's

supersonic

Juicy 5's I have on my other XC bike can scrub metres off my stopping distance without locking up

That will be down to tyres and weight distrubution, not the brakes. Brakes make no difference to ultimate stopping power (providing, of course, there is enough force to lock the wheel in the first place )

AndyOgy

nicklouse wrote:

sounds like poor set up and too much fiddling.

Ps I can set up V's, Cantis, Us, road calipers. and mech and hydro discs and i know what I run on my MTBs.

Pretty much no fiddling at all. All that I've done since they were fitted has been to add a couple of micro washers to change the calliper position slightly.

I guess that is a major advantage of hydros, there has been flip all maintenance to do. But I don't mind putting in the time to tinker with V's.

Performance has gone a little off the boil since they were fitted. I'm guessing that some pad contamination has happened from all the stuff that gets thrown up from the roads, a lot of which is oil.

In any case, I'm talking about hydraulic disc brakes in general - not just my own. And I'm not saying that they're rubbish. I'm praising V's, not berating hydros.

chrischris1315

No I'm sorry but I've recently moved from V's to disc brakes and what a difference they make, my stopping power is just leagues ahead of what it used to be.
I just don't have the confidence in V's anymore, not after using formula's, I would only use V's again if I had no choice or I was commuting.

Regards

Chris

nicklouse

AndyOgy wrote:

Pretty much no fiddling at all. All that I've done since they were fitted has been to add a couple of micro washers to change the calliper position slightly.

What XTRs are they then that need some washers?

Part numbers.

Briggo

AndyOgy wrote:

It'd be interesting to hear what you all think?

You haven't convinced me.

njee20

M960 presumably.

You mention crap off the roads, are you only riding on the road? In which case I can see the merit in v's.

SS the limiting power of the rear brake is grip yes, but not the front surely. I remember using xtr v brakes and just not really being able to stop In various situations, certainly not send myself over the bars ie there was more potential stopping power available! I don't miss those days. In dry conditions, on the flat, v's may be a match, but you couldn't pay me enough to go back to them now!

Anonymous

Briggo wrote:

AndyOgy wrote:

It'd be interesting to hear what you all think?

You haven't convinced me.

Careful. We're not allowed to disagree.

nicklouse

njee20 wrote:

M960 presumably.

err thats a V I want to know the Disc caliper 965/966? or or... IE post or IS mount.

Anonymous

njee20 wrote:

M960 presumably.

You mention crap off the roads, are you only riding on the road? In which case I can see the merit in v's.

SS the limiting power of the rear brake is grip yes, but not the front surely. I remember using xtr v brakes and just not really being able to stop In various situations, certainly not send myself over the bars ie there was more potential stopping power available! I don't miss those days. In dry conditions, on the flat, v's may be a match, but you couldn't pay me enough to go back to them now!

Given the right body position, however, no amount of braking with the front will throw you over the bars.
What seems to happen is that a rider will grab more brake than they expected, throwing their mass forwards, unsettling the bike, and causing it to flip.
With the right weight distribution, the front wheel can be locked without flipping the bike. The problem then is that front wheel skids are very very difficult to tame.

But I'm with you, I've noticed a significant increase in available stopping power with discs compared to Vs*, even though I've always obsessed over brake setups. Best V brakes I ever had were the Shimano DX brakes, DX636, IIRC


* it's ok, admins, I'm just saying that, I don't mean it :roll:

njee20

You know exactly what I mean, M960 series. M965 was IS, M966 post, as I'm sure you know! So presumably it's an M965.

supersonic

njee20 wrote:

M960 presumably.

You mention crap off the roads, are you only riding on the road? In which case I can see the merit in v's.

SS the limiting power of the rear brake is grip yes, but not the front surely. I remember using xtr v brakes and just not really being able to stop In various situations, certainly not send myself over the bars ie there was more potential stopping power available! I don't miss those days. In dry conditions, on the flat, v's may be a match, but you couldn't pay me enough to go back to them now!

I have gone over the bars many times with Vs lol, and used to pull great endos. When I was learning how to brake lol. Admittedly in the bad gloop this was less likely, but my set up can be very sharp. My XTR V brake was not very good, diodn't seem to work as well as even basic m600s.

But as I said, it is horses for courses, I like both Vs and discs depending on the bike, riding and conditions.

allen.coulson

The other thing is that with V's on sand toy get your wheel rims eroded which yoy dont with disks.

njee20

I did find normal rims better than ceramic, but then they wore out quickly. Avid Arch Rivals and Ultimates were better, but the latter cost more than reasonable discs!

These days the weight advantage is negligible too.

Each to their own and that though!

tri-sexual

good v brakes can be very good
years ago i did some experiments with different brake types, different bikes freewheeling down a steep hill (on the road)
the bikes were all travelling at the same speed and were all lined up side by side. we all braked at the same point and to the dismay of many whose bike sported very expensive disc brakes, the v brakes out performed most of the other disc brakes and had a much shorter braking distance.
so v brakes can be very good but where they are rubbish is when the conditions are wet and muddy, v brakes simply cannot compete with disc brakes when the conditions get a little challengeing.
disc brakes are the best upgrade on a mountain bike

AndyOgy

nicklouse wrote:

AndyOgy wrote:

Pretty much no fiddling at all. All that I've done since they were fitted has been to add a couple of micro washers to change the calliper position slightly.

What XTRs are they then that need some washers?

Part numbers.

BR-M975 IS mount.

chrisga

Will probbaly just be repeating what everyone else said but no chance would I even consider ditching my 203mm rotor and disc brake setup for some v's. Aside from the fact that i dont have any canti mounts now on any frames or forks, I could not go back to having all the arm pump.

Admittedly you can make V's stop you adequately and they were a step forward from cantilevers but they required a lot more force to pull on than any of my discs ever have to get a similar amount of stopping power. At the end of a long rocky descent its nice to still be able to feel my arms!

Wet/muddy conditions again there is no comparison. Discs everytime please.