Wiggo's Commitment
Comments
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Wiggins's biggest "problem" was finishing fourth in the Tour. If he hadn't achieved that then forums would be silent, just the odd laugh at his quotes, some features on his Mod scooter and some cheers for the odd win in a time trial. Now he's set the bar almost impossibly high and he's judged against his 2009 ride in July.
The sport is littered with guys who do well one year but don't make it back the next.0 -
Was finishing 3rd in Paris-Nice a fluke?0
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Yes because the course suited him. There was too much time trialling and the climbs weren't selective enough.Cogidubnus wrote:Was finishing 3rd in Paris-Nice a fluke?
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I was a bit disappointed he didn't show more ambition - I suppose you can't knock 3rd in Paris Nice but he obviously had reasonable form going by his time trial so why not try attacking Tony Martin yesterday ? Let Martin's team keep the break in check, isolate him and then try and put him under pressure, maybe go with Sanchez rather than using Thomas and Rogers to make sure wiggo got 3rd.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Yes because the course suited him. There was too much time trialling and the climbs weren't selective enough.
Yep, if he was a real man he'd only ever race parcours where he doesn't stand a chance.
I'm sure with a little bit of luck any of us could fluke a Paris Nice podium.0 -
I'm guessing that Sky want some friends at the Tour to help control the race as a controlled race suits Sky (and HTC and RadioShack?). If they show a bit of willing (and don't attack needlessly) toward HTC and RadioSchack now in March, perhaps it might help later on in July?
After getting their inter-peleton tactics/relations a bit wrong last year we might be seeing signs that they have learned their lesson.0 -
Tom Butcher wrote:I was a bit disappointed he didn't show more ambition - I suppose you can't knock 3rd in Paris Nice but he obviously had reasonable form going by his time trial so why now try attacking Tony Martin yesterday ? Let Martin's team keep the break in check, isolate him and then try and put him under pressure, maybe go with Sanchez rather than using Thomas and Rogers to make sure wiggo got 3rd.
I think there was a quote on the Team Sky website that Bradley wasn't feeling great on Saturday. Maybe the same was true on Sunday, so it was better to have his team at the front keeping a pace that he was comfortable with, thus securing his third and some important ranking points.
Overall I found the race a little disappointing. I guess the weather didn't help, but it didn't seem to have enough to properly separate the top guys.0 -
Few of the usual 'touchpapers' were off form or not there - LLS, Chav etc. This made a difference I think.
Voeckler was great in that role but noone chases him cos he'll never win GC.___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
Kléber wrote:Wiggins's biggest "problem" was finishing fourth in the Tour. If he hadn't achieved that then forums would be silent, just the odd laugh at his quotes, some features on his Mod scooter and some cheers for the odd win in a time trial. Now he's set the bar almost impossibly high and he's judged against his 2009 ride in July.
The sport is littered with guys who do well one year but don't make it back the next.
You're probably right.
Although had he not finished 4th, he wouldn't have 'earned' a mega-bucks contract and undivided/no-expense-spared focussed support from a ProTour Team built around him for the Tour in 2010.
Likewise, he wouldn't have had the expectation that comes with all that. He would still be Brad the trackie, who plays a bit on the road in Summer and gets the odd placing in a TT.
Either you're a team leader (with all the expectation/attention that comes with that) or you're 'the help'.0 -
squired wrote:Tom Butcher wrote:I was a bit disappointed he didn't show more ambition - I suppose you can't knock 3rd in Paris Nice but he obviously had reasonable form going by his time trial so why now try attacking Tony Martin yesterday ? Let Martin's team keep the break in check, isolate him and then try and put him under pressure, maybe go with Sanchez rather than using Thomas and Rogers to make sure wiggo got 3rd.
I think there was a quote on the Team Sky website that Bradley wasn't feeling great on Saturday. Maybe the same was true on Sunday, so it was better to have his team at the front keeping a pace that he was comfortable with, thus securing his third and some important ranking points.
Overall I found the race a little disappointing. I guess the weather didn't help, but it didn't seem to have enough to properly separate the top guys.
I thought it was a good race in terms of individual stages - agree the GC men didn't really battle it out though and the time trial was decisive in the end. I don't know if we can blame the course though - I think there was enough in it but it needed riders to be adventurous - the course itself wasn't going to make the selection for them but we shouldn't need mountain top finishes to split the GC contenders. I like Wiggin's personality (I know it rubs some up the wrong way) but come on he needs to try and win some races - did he ever make any of the selections during the week ? Seeing as he professes that it's the Olympics that matters to him then take a few chances on the road - apparently it's not your main focus anyway so what is there to lose.
OK so maybe Wiggins was ill - or maybe it's more Sky spin - as a team they seem to ride conservatively so I'm not inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. The used their firepower to kill the GC rather than try and win the race - it's their usual tactic and personally I think their conservative approach is part of what is holding their results back.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
I can completely understand why they did what they did over the last two days. The conditions were atrocious and they were sitting with a podium place. I cant believe Sky would have managed to ride the legs off either Martin or the Radioshacks who were there so there was little to be gained.
OK Voeckler went but as someone said everyone leaves him alone as his not a GC threat and Sanchez did something but only got 16 seconds. There is no way Wiggins would have been allowed to even get that by the Radioshacks.
I dont understand the issue about picking up a result through being a good time trialist. You would almost think it was cheating!!0 -
Ron Stuart wrote:Question.... Should Sky be putting there eggs fully in the' Wiggins basket' after this quote made in the interview on Eurosport prior to Stage one of the ‘Race to the Sun’
Quote......."Nothing will ever change, the Olympics is always the main focus, I just do things in the other four years to keep myself busy really" .......end of quote.
Do you like me think that it would be nice for Sky to have a fully committed overall team leader, one that passionately wants to succeed on the road rather than someone that is using a very well paid fill in opportunity between what he really most finds motivating.
:?:
He is known to have quite a razor sharp wit/sense of humour. I wouldn't read too much into it. I am sure over the last few years the £2m p/a cycling contract would have certainly refocused him somewhat.0 -
It was clearly a very dodgy car to be sending out the attacks on that last stage. It's very unfair to be expecting Wiggins or even Kloden to go gung-ho.0
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smithy21 wrote:I can completely understand why they did what they did over the last two days. The conditions were atrocious and they were sitting with a podium place. I cant believe Sky would have managed to ride the legs off either Martin or the Radioshacks who were there so there was little to be gained.
OK Voeckler went but as someone said everyone leaves him alone as his not a GC threat and Sanchez did something but only got 16 seconds. There is no way Wiggins would have been allowed to even get that by the Radioshacks.
I dont understand the issue about picking up a result through being a good time trialist. You would almost think it was cheating!!
Surely you test the opposition out - you don't just sit there and think Martin and Kloeden are pretty good so no point trying anything. Sanchez only got 16 seconds partly because Sky helped pull the group behind to the finish - if Wiggins had managed to go with Sanchez and possibly split the group behind to pieces we could have seen Martin towing the remnants to the finish and losing a minute plus - OK so it's perhaps not that likely but if you don't try you don't find out.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Tom Butcher wrote:smithy21 wrote:I can completely understand why they did what they did over the last two days. The conditions were atrocious and they were sitting with a podium place. I cant believe Sky would have managed to ride the legs off either Martin or the Radioshacks who were there so there was little to be gained.
OK Voeckler went but as someone said everyone leaves him alone as his not a GC threat and Sanchez did something but only got 16 seconds. There is no way Wiggins would have been allowed to even get that by the Radioshacks.
I dont understand the issue about picking up a result through being a good time trialist. You would almost think it was cheating!!
Surely you test the opposition out - you don't just sit there and think Martin and Kloeden are pretty good so no point trying anything. Sanchez only got 16 seconds partly because Sky helped pull the group behind to the finish - if Wiggins had managed to go with Sanchez and possibly split the group behind to pieces we could have seen Martin towing the remnants to the finish and losing a minute plus - OK so it's perhaps not that likely but if you don't try you don't find out.
But if you do try you stand to lose a lot. It's higher risk. They coud be stronger and then counter-attack you or any number of different outcomes.
Attacking is inherently risky.
Podium in a big stage race is a big deal for a newish team.0 -
It also gains GB valuable points for Worlds qualification.0
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Rick Chasey wrote:Tom Butcher wrote:smithy21 wrote:I can completely understand why they did what they did over the last two days. The conditions were atrocious and they were sitting with a podium place. I cant believe Sky would have managed to ride the legs off either Martin or the Radioshacks who were there so there was little to be gained.
OK Voeckler went but as someone said everyone leaves him alone as his not a GC threat and Sanchez did something but only got 16 seconds. There is no way Wiggins would have been allowed to even get that by the Radioshacks.
I dont understand the issue about picking up a result through being a good time trialist. You would almost think it was cheating!!
Surely you test the opposition out - you don't just sit there and think Martin and Kloeden are pretty good so no point trying anything. Sanchez only got 16 seconds partly because Sky helped pull the group behind to the finish - if Wiggins had managed to go with Sanchez and possibly split the group behind to pieces we could have seen Martin towing the remnants to the finish and losing a minute plus - OK so it's perhaps not that likely but if you don't try you don't find out.
But if you do try you stand to lose a lot. It's higher risk. They coud be stronger and then counter-attack you or any number of different outcomes.
Attacking is inherently risky.
Podium in a big stage race is a big deal for a newish team.
Agree. Surely if you are in Sky's position you bank a decent podium finish and UCI points and give yourself something to build on rather then throwing your team leader down a slippery descent to see if the competition fancy it.0 -
You have to be willing to lose a race in order to win it (or something like that) - Sean Kelly.
I understand what you are saying - of course it could have backfired - but it's the equivalent of sitting in the bunch because you are afraid of getting dropped. End of the day it's the riders who take risks, ride with a bit of elan that remembered and generate publicity.
To misquote FrenchFighter - he didn't ride like a champion
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Tom Butcher wrote:. End of the day it's the riders who take risks, ride with a bit of elan that remembered and generate publicity.
You sound like someone from the City.
A rider who takes a risk and looses out is quickly forgotten.
A rider who takes a risk and wins, gets remembered.0 -
Trouble is Wiggo isn't winning is he - it's pretty rare you win a bike race by being conservative. For someone of his talent his road palmares is pretty bare apart from 4th in the Tour and time trials. I think he has the talent to do better but to do better he has to be more adventurous.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
FWIW, I don't blame Wiggo for being conservative - he clearly didn't have the legs to put time into Martin and 3rd on GC at Paris Nice is a decent result. Not a result that sends the UK sporting media and sponsors into a frenzy, but a good result nonetheless.
Other people on here have raised the issue of peleton politics/banking favours etc and perhaps they're right. Perhaps Wiggo/Sky didn't feel the wrath/displeasure of HTC/RadioShack was worth the risk. I hope not, but you never know...
Next up is Criterium International - I hope he goes all out to win. The first stage looks long and hard, but assuming he's up there with the climbers, he should gain some time in the short TT. Not sure who else is riding though???0 -
Tom, surely you can understand that you can't quote a sprinter in this context. Most stages of a professional event are a potential race win to them and every time it's a significantly different tactical and sporting decision as to whether they are going to challenge for it.
I'm not sure what everyone gets so worked up about with Wiggo. It's just typically British isn't it to bash our top sports men and women. He's a multiple world champion, he's a multiple Olympic medallist (a few gold and he's just podium'd the PN and has a 4th place in the TDF on his CV. That's a cycling pedigree that just about any other member of the peleton would trade theirs for, so what's the craic with a load of forumites slagging him off for "lack of effort? I assume that this is the same mentality that sees the criticism of Tim Henman for "only" being in the top 4 in the world, Andy Murray for "only" getting to 2nd in the world, being a multiple Grand Slam finalist, many times ATP winner, Lee Westwood for "only" being at no. 1 in the golf rankings for a couple of months and never having won a major...........
FFS get a grip!Trail fun - Transition Bandit
Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
Allround - Cotic Solaris0 -
lostboysaint wrote:I'm not sure what everyone gets so worked up about with Wiggo. It's just typically British isn't it to bash our top sports men and women. He's a multiple world champion, he's a multiple Olympic medallist (a few gold and he's just podium'd the PN and has a 4th place in the TDF on his CV. That's a cycling pedigree that just about any other member of the peloton would trade theirs for, so what's the craic with a load of forumites slagging him off for "lack of effort? I assume that this is the same mentality that sees the criticism of Tim Henman for "only" being in the top 4 in the world, Andy Murray for "only" getting to 2nd in the world, being a multiple Grand Slam finalist, many times ATP winner, Lee Westwood for "only" being at no. 1 in the golf rankings for a couple of months and never having won a major...........
FFS get a grip!
^ This@shraap | My Men 2016: G, Yogi, Cav, Boonen, Degenkolb, Martin, J-Rod, Kudus, Chaves0 -
Interesting point above. Which riders would swop their career results for Wiggins?
Road riders don't care too much about track worlds, even the olympics, so the only riders with less wins would be neo pros or domestiques?0 -
Tom Butcher wrote:Trouble is Wiggo isn't winning is he - it's pretty rare you win a bike race by being conservative. For someone of his talent his road palmares is pretty bare apart from 4th in the Tour and time trials. I think he has the talent to do better but to do better he has to be more adventurous.
Absolutely not true.
You didn't see Indurain wasting energy on the attack,when he was better saving himself for the stages where he knew he could make real gains (TT's)
I've said before,sky's aim was to get a british TDF winner in the next 5 years.
Ok,it was probably marketing spin (no publicity is bad publicity,& all that)
with that stated aim,Wiggo was THE choice,end of.
If we had TDF formats like a few years back,(see Indurain)with a couple of individual tt's,then we'd all be raving about Wiggo.
Now it seems the organisers are hell bent on destroying the riders with all the GT's trying to outdo each other with the most/hardest mountain stages,then It's a bit out of wiggo's hand.
For what it's worht,....good result in Paris Nice,I think.so many cols,so little time!0 -
nick hanson wrote:
Absolutely not true.
You didn't see Indurain wasting energy on the attack,when he was better saving himself for the stages where he knew he could make real gains (TT's)
What about the Liege stage in the 1995 Tour? That was the day before a long time trial.
Indurain was an attacking rider, think Val Louron in 91, La Plagne in 95 etc, he just chose his moments carefully.
Anyway, Wiggins is no Indurain.0 -
I don't blame Brad for not attacking yesterday. The conditions were gash & what was his best hope, moving up 1 place on the podium? There was more of a chance of him ending up under a van like the Astana rider on Saturday & that could be the season over there & then. Pointless. Risks should be taken when appropriate, had the conditions been better, i'd of liked to see him have a crack. It remains to be seen what he can do for the rest of the season. IMO he's still learning what thiswhole team working for you is about & I expect to see better results than last having had a years experience & learnings to work off0
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bordercollie1 wrote:Interesting point above. Which riders would swop their career results for Wiggins?
Road riders don't care too much about track worlds, even the olympics, so the only riders with less wins would be neo pros or domestiques?
Plenty of riders would swap.
They'd love three Olympic gold medals, they would be big stars in their countries. For example, on a medal table the last two summer Olympics combined, Belgium (all of it, all sports) would be beaten by the Belgian born Wiggins on his own. (He's also managed a better Tour finish than any Belgian in 27 years).
Sometimes I wonder what people expect of him.Twitter: @RichN950 -
