Wiggo's Commitment

pedro118118

Well said.

Depends what you call "Wiggo-bashing" really - I agree that simply dismissing him as "useless" or "sh*t" is laughable.

That said, pointing out that he hasn't won a race for years is simple fact. As the handsomely-paid team-leader/star-rider of such a high-profile WorldTour squad, expectations are high and he has yet to deliver a result of any note (although that depends on how you regard a GT prologue win I suppose).

If he wins Paris-Nice, I'd be delighted.
If he does well in the Tour again, I'd be equally thrilled.

Tom Butcher

Can someone explain how he fluked a 4th place in the TdF ?

OK maybe if he'd got 20 minutes in a break early on or half a dozen of the main contenders had crashed out - but I can't remember anything in that Tour you'd put down particularly to luck.

Yes he hasn't been able to repeat that form - doesn't make it a fluke in the way that maybe Pereiro winning it was.

gsk82

he was also saying at manchester how much he loved the track and it been like a holiday. i do get the impression that he doesn't really care about the road and wouldn't do it if it wasn't where the money is

eh

Just out of interest compare the 2009 Garmin TDF squad Vs 2010 Sky below, and tell me which would have given Wiggins the best platform? For me the work done by the likes of VDV, Millar, Zabriskie, Hesjedal et al really set a platform for Wiggins, in a way that Sky simply didn't/couldn't do. So was 2009 a fluke well thats probably unfair, but everything was right i.e. a 'nice' course, a quality team of seasoned pros working at 100% for a common cause, and a bit of good luck. Will these all align again, i have my doubts.

Garmin 2009
* 51 Christian Vande Velde (USA)
* 52 Julian Dean (NZl)
* 53 Tyler Farrar (USA)
* 54 Ryder Hesjedal (Can)
* 55 Martijn Maaskant (Ned)
* 56 David Millar (GBr)
* 57 Danny Pate (USA)
* 58 Bradley Wiggins (GBr)
* 59 David Zabriskie (USA)

Sky 2010
* 31 Bradley Wiggins (GBr)
* 32 Michael Barry (Can)
* 33 Steven Cummings (GBr)
* 34 Juan Antonio Flecha Giannoni (Spa)
* 35 Simon Gerrans (Aus)
* 36 Edvald Boasson Hagen (Nor)
* 37 Thomas Lövkvist (Swe)
* 38 Serge Pauwels (Ned)
* 39 Geraint Thomas (GBr)

Pross

iainf72 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

But yeah, he is a lightweight for sure. He will never be a Champion. His 4th was lucky like CVVs. Definitely Sky should be focusing more on pure talent - they have some of that.

Can you create a flowchart on how someone makes it into "Champion" camp?

I've just checked the official Frnech Fighter - English dictionary and the definition is as follows:-

Champion - a rider who is so doped to the eyeballs they are able to put in super human efforts (see definition "exciting") that make them appear to be vastly superior to any cyclist riding under their own steam. In extreme circumstances and after eating Spanish beef the rider may be referred to as a True Champion TM

sumosprintstar

When being interviewed at the TDF he said something along the lines of "it does not matter what I do here I still get my pay at the end of the month". Then in Manchester he says something like "it does not matter how I perform this weekend it is fun and I will just go back to my day job". This does not strike me as a very committed attitude to actually wanting to win again. It also seems a bit disrespectful to all those guys busting a gut to try and make the team and could have been chosen to compete in his place.

dougzz

sumosprintstar wrote:

When being interviewed at the TDF he said something along the lines of "it does not matter what I do here I still get my pay at the end of the month". Then in Manchester he says something like "it does not matter how I perform this weekend it is fun and I will just go back to my day job". This does not strike me as a very committed attitude to actually wanting to win again. It also seems a bit disrespectful to all those guys busting a gut to try and make the team and could have been chosen to compete in his place.

I agree, Cav gets a lot of criticism but always does his best to deliver when they've worked for him, and always praises his team. Wiggo seems quite quirky, not sure he'd really inspire others to work for him.

jerry3571

I think Wiggo's head is a little bit shakey, in the style of JF Bernard. He'd be better off sharing the part with another potential winner as Menchov and Sastre have done this year. If they are both on form then the one two attacks are good. If one is on better form than the other the weaker can do long attacks or be a good domestique. Sole responsibilty for wiggo seems to be a problem.
Also, Garmin are thought to be dope free but they seem to be able to get any rider in the top 10 at the Tour; wiggins, Vandevelde, Hesjedal and doesn't matter who it is. I think I might ride for Garmin as I fancy a top 10 placing at the age of 40. Be a nice present for my 40th.

Also, also what event in the Olympics is wiggins going to ride as I thought the 4km pursuit has gone. His normal TT riding is very good but he wouldn't be Cancellara; he's got a better chance at beating Schleck and AC at the Tour than the TT at the Olympics.

-Jerry

Gazzaputt

I think to m any on this forum try to read into Wiggo's comments.

He's playing a game very well.

dougzz

Gazzaputt wrote:

I think to m any on this forum try to read into Wiggo's comments.

He's playing a game very well.

Depends on whether the game is making money, then yes you're right. If however the game is winning some bike races then he's not playing it very well.

avoidingmyphd

I suspect that his relationships with his teammates, including their willingness to work for him, doesn't depend on their interpretation of things he says to the press.

pedro118118

avoidingmyphd wrote:

I suspect that his relationships with his teammates, including their willingness to work for him, doesn't depend on their interpretation of things he says to the press.

Indeed.
The question is whether Wiggo's results/talent is worthy of having the likes of Rogers, Lovqvist, EBH, Thomas at his disposal.

inkyfingers

pedro118118 wrote:

avoidingmyphd wrote:

I suspect that his relationships with his teammates, including their willingness to work for him, doesn't depend on their interpretation of things he says to the press.

Indeed.
The question is whether Wiggo's results/talent is worthy of having the likes of Rogers, Lovqvist, EBH, Thomas at his disposal.

Hopefully this year we will find out. Last year the team screwed up by focussing on the tour. If this year he has a proper crack at a few races before/after the tour then his results across the season will answer the question.

Having a bad Tour does not automatically make you a crap rider or mean you've had a bad season. In the same way that having one good tour (09) doesn't make you a great rider.
If he can place well in a few races this year and win a few stages/TTs then it would take the pressure off him, if he can't then I guess the doubters will have been proved right.

greasedscotsman

jerry3571 wrote:

Also, also what event in the Olympics is wiggins going to ride as I thought the 4km pursuit has gone. His normal TT riding is very good but he wouldn't be Cancellara; he's got a better chance at beating Schleck and AC at the Tour than the TT at the Olympics.

-Jerry

Team pursuit?

White Horse

He also said at the Track World Cup that it was nice to be in Manchester riding the team pursuit and it was a bit of a holiday for him. He was looking forward to going back to his day job on the road the next day.

greasedscotsman

White Horse wrote:

He also said at the Track World Cup that it was nice to be in Manchester riding the team pursuit and it was a bit of a holiday for him. He was looking forward to going back to his day job on the road the next day.

Didn't I say that on the previous page? Can anyone hear me?

pedro118118

inkyfingers wrote:

pedro118118 wrote:

avoidingmyphd wrote:

I suspect that his relationships with his teammates, including their willingness to work for him, doesn't depend on their interpretation of things he says to the press.

Indeed.
The question is whether Wiggo's results/talent is worthy of having the likes of Rogers, Lovqvist, EBH, Thomas at his disposal.

Hopefully this year we will find out. Last year the team screwed up by focussing on the tour. If this year he has a proper crack at a few races before/after the tour then his results across the season will answer the question.

Having a bad Tour does not automatically make you a crap rider or mean you've had a bad season. In the same way that having one good tour (09) doesn't make you a great rider.
If he can place well in a few races this year and win a few stages/TTs then it would take the pressure off him, if he can't then I guess the doubters will have been proved right.

Sounds so simple. ...

inkyfingers

pedro118118 wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

pedro118118 wrote:

avoidingmyphd wrote:

I suspect that his relationships with his teammates, including their willingness to work for him, doesn't depend on their interpretation of things he says to the press.

Indeed.
The question is whether Wiggo's results/talent is worthy of having the likes of Rogers, Lovqvist, EBH, Thomas at his disposal.

Hopefully this year we will find out. Last year the team screwed up by focussing on the tour. If this year he has a proper crack at a few races before/after the tour then his results across the season will answer the question.

Having a bad Tour does not automatically make you a crap rider or mean you've had a bad season. In the same way that having one good tour (09) doesn't make you a great rider.
If he can place well in a few races this year and win a few stages/TTs then it would take the pressure off him, if he can't then I guess the doubters will have been proved right.

Sounds so simple. ...

Hence the "If"! The Giro prologue shows how well he can ride when he wants to. he certainly has a chance in any TT where Cancellara isn't riding.

inkyfingers

Nice to see him doing some racing today, on the front driving the chase

mr_poll

eh wrote:

I think mentally he is probably all over the shop, his excessive drinking in the off season is pretty well known, thats never a sign of someone happy with their lot.

I am sorry but cannot believe this has been left to pass - what excessive drinking is pretty well known??? I dont follow pro-tour gossip like you do but I have never seen anything about this, ever. I live close to Wiggins and have never seen him stumble out of the pub or being served a bottle of Jack when at the local shop, nor is this local gossip. I think I read his estranged father was an alcoholic and this was the cause of a family breakdown which he personally witnessed, hardly something he would want to emulate.
You might not like the guy but unfounded slander is hardly the greatest argument, unless of course you have some facts to back up such opinion.

inkyfingers

mr_poll wrote:

eh wrote:

I think mentally he is probably all over the shop, his excessive drinking in the off season is pretty well known, thats never a sign of someone happy with their lot.

I am sorry but cannot believe this has been left to pass - what excessive drinking is pretty well known??? I dont follow pro-tour gossip like you do but I have never seen anything about this, ever. I live close to Wiggins and have never seen him stumble out of the pub or being served a bottle of Jack when at the local shop, nor is this local gossip. I think I read his estranged father was an alcoholic and this was the cause of a family breakdown which he personally witnessed, hardly something he would want to emulate.
You might not like the guy but unfounded slander is hardly the greatest argument, unless of course you have some facts to back up such opinion.

To be fair, Brad admits in his book that after the 2004 Olympics he went through a period of spending all day in the pub. Not sure there is any evidence of recent binges though.

andyp

mr_poll wrote:

I am sorry but cannot believe this has been left to pass - what excessive drinking is pretty well known??? I dont follow pro-tour gossip like you do but I have never seen anything about this, ever. I live close to Wiggins and have never seen him stumble out of the pub or being served a bottle of Jack when at the local shop, nor is this local gossip. I think I read his estranged father was an alcoholic and this was the cause of a family breakdown which he personally witnessed, hardly something he would want to emulate.
You might not like the guy but unfounded slander is hardly the greatest argument, unless of course you have some facts to back up such opinion.

You clearly move in the wrong circles. Wiggins off season drinking binges are well known in my neck of the woods.

iainf72

He mentions drinking too much in his book I think. And in a few interviews. As I recall when he was at the ToB he said he'd mostly been in the pub.

gsk82

iainf72 wrote:

He mentions drinking too much in his book I think. And in a few interviews. As I recall when he was at the ToB he said he'd mostly been in the pub.

it seems that whenever he achieves something he spends the next 6 months getting s*** faced

Tom BB

Didn't they have to drag him out of the boozer to get him onto the podium at the National TT champs last year?

mr_poll

It appears I stand corrected - apologies

pedro118118

inkyfingers wrote:

pedro118118 wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

pedro118118 wrote:

avoidingmyphd wrote:

I suspect that his relationships with his teammates, including their willingness to work for him, doesn't depend on their interpretation of things he says to the press.

Indeed.
The question is whether Wiggo's results/talent is worthy of having the likes of Rogers, Lovqvist, EBH, Thomas at his disposal.

Hopefully this year we will find out. Last year the team screwed up by focussing on the tour. If this year he has a proper crack at a few races before/after the tour then his results across the season will answer the question.

Having a bad Tour does not automatically make you a crap rider or mean you've had a bad season. In the same way that having one good tour (09) doesn't make you a great rider.
If he can place well in a few races this year and win a few stages/TTs then it would take the pressure off him, if he can't then I guess the doubters will have been proved right.

Sounds so simple. ...

Hence the "If"! The Giro prologue shows how well he can ride when he wants to. he certainly has a chance in any TT where Cancellara isn't riding.

Not sure that's the case - Cancellar aside, there are other riders, who acheive better results in TTs.

inkyfingers

Personally i think that Cancellara and Tony Martin are the two best TTers in the world, then you have a group of guys who could all win on the day, depending on form and conditions. I'd put Wiggins in this group, along with the likes of David Millar, Dennis Menchov, Cadel Evans and others.

rick_chasey

inkyfingers wrote:

Personally i think that Cancellara and Tony Martin are the two best TTers in the world, then you have a group of guys who could all win on the day, depending on form and conditions. I'd put Wiggins in this group, along with the likes of David Millar, Dennis Menchov, Cadel Evans and others.

I recon on his day Millar is a better TTer than Wiggins on any form.

This has nothing to do with the fact Millar manned up and rode an excellent Ronde last year, and now has a bit of a closet fan as a result.

pedro118118

inkyfingers wrote:

Personally i think that Cancellara and Tony Martin are the two best TTers in the world, then you have a group of guys who could all win on the day, depending on form and conditions. I'd put Wiggins in this group, along with the likes of David Millar, Dennis Menchov, Cadel Evans and others.

Fair point, although even against the clock, Wiggo's wins have been in modest races - perhaps today at PN all that will change (fingers crossed!).