Training for the Tourmalet

Mr Dog

Off to France in the summer, staying at the Airotel Pyrénées. Convinced the Mrs to take her bike, so will lash on a longer stem and head to the tourmalet.
I need advice relating to training for the climbs. How can replicate the sustained effort? I live in a hilly area of Scotland.
The bike I will be using has a compact 39/52 with 12x25 cassette. Would it be prudent to stick on a 12x27?
I'm 45 and of average ability.
Thanks for any advice.

thiscocks

No real way to replicate the sustained hills here in the uk unfortunaltely...

52/39 is not a 'compact' chainset, that being 50/34. I think I would put on the 12x27 no question. 39/25 would be pretty tough unless you are a very good climber, and used to long mountain climbs.

Most go with the compact set up if they haven't riden in the mountails before, but I would have thought 39/27 would be ok if you are a decent climber. You might want to consider a compact chainset to be on the safe side?..

ut_och_cykla

I've done the Tourmalet and many other Pyrenean/Alp passes on a racing bike with a tripple & MTB casset. 30/32 has got me up everything day after day - slowly but surely(fat & 50 + woman)!
For training (i live in a flat part of southern Sweden) I've typically done 2 x 20 sessions and also what carmicheal/Armstrong call Tension - heavy gears and slow cadence - maybe down to 50 -60 to get the knees used to keeping going long & slow (tho' not so heavy obviously) combined with longer gentler rides in all weathers.
Long sustained intervalls at a sensible cadence where you're working at or just below your threshhold can be done on normal roads - slight incline, slightly too heavy a gear, into teh wind etc.
Good luck - its a lovely ride - but start early - it can get jolly hot!

Mr Dog

Thanks thiscocks, I plan to get as many long local climbs in between now and July. The 12x27 sounds a given.. just hope I make it.. don't deal well with failure.
Are the gradients just plain nasty? Its the concerning that concerns me the most.
Thanks again.

bobtbuilder

Mr Dog wrote:

Are the gradients just plain nasty? Its the concerning that concerns me the most.

The gradients themselves are not the problem. The average gradient of the Tourmalet is only 8%. The problem is the length of the climbs and the time that it requires you to be riding around your threshold. The length of the Tourmalet is 15.3km, which depending on your ability level could mean anywhere from 1hr15 - 2hrs to climb.

So to prepare yourself, you need to get used to putting out near-threshold levels of power for this sort of time. The turbo trainer is a good way of doing this. Any road riding will contain periods of free-wheeling, easing off which are not an option on the Tourmalet unless you stop. If possible, put a riser under the front wheel on the turbo, as prolonged spells of climbing will put more strain on your lower back than the riding you are used to in this country.

Mr Dog

The early start is a good idea.. heat in the lower and middle sections will be something I'll just have to suffer.. here in Scotland its never a problem. Not relishing chewing on heavy gears for 2 hours, but I'm gonna give it my best. Thanks for your insight and keep climbing.

wthrelfall

I'd say it's pretty much a necessity to have a compact chainset and a 27 or 28 tooth on the rear as the Tourmalet is a relentless beast of a hill. If you can get up to the Bealach in Applecross, try riding over that 4 times - that's the closest I got to simulating the Pyrenees in Scotland. I was more impressed with the Soulor scenery wise, maybe give that a look, easier too! good luck.

Mr Dog

Bob, thats the word I fear most .. stop... the relentless slog will no doubt tell me alot about my pain threshold.

wthrelfall

just take your time and try to enjoy the ride and the scenery. it's a special part of the world..

Mr Dog

Bealach four times..oh dear..are there as many motorbikes on the tourmalet?

unixnerd

You might think about doing the Lecht in each direction, that's some climb with a few very steep bits. I do Cairngorm on my triple with 30x25, might be able to do it in a higher gear if I had to but if you have low gearing you'll use it! To be honest I find the descents are the hard bit, scary.

Three of the guys from my LBS in Aviemore did Mount Ventoux three times in one day, I'm hugely jealous.........

ut_och_cykla

I did the tourmalet on a day the road was 'closed' - they were laying new tarmac but let bikes through. It was so still & so quiet and so beautiful with no cars coming up or down. A very special experience.
Can also suggest you make the trip up to Le Pic du Midi observatory nearby if the weather is clear - a real 'wow' moment or two to be had there too (tho' without bike!!)

pedylan

ut_och_cykla wrote:

Good luck - its a lovely ride - but start early - it can get jolly hot!

It can get jolly cold as well. Temp at the summit for the 08 Etape du Tour was 5oc and the visibility was so bad the top of the cyclist statue was out of sight from the road. I was shaking so much on the descent I thought I might lose control.

So get a good weather forecast!

cougie

I'd definitely say a 39*25 was too high for a middle aged average rider.

27 is better - but even better if matched with a compact.

And yes - the weather is unpredictable - so take a race cape out with you just in case. Arm warmers too if needed.

skinsey

Rode the Tourmalet last Sept as part of the Raid Pyrenean. It's a fantastic climb, and as such you want to enjoy it as much as possible on the way up as well at the top itself. If you're only of average ability you won't enjoy it on a bottom gear of 39x25, mainly because I suspect you'll be walking much of the way. As others have said, get a bottom gear of at least 34x27, not because there's anything especially steep, but just so that you keep your legs twirling.

As for prep, get on the turbo, a few phone directories under the front wheel, match a heart rate of 80% max to a cadence of 65-70, and stick at it till you feel like death. I'm not being flippant - it worked for me.

And if you truly want to get the most out of the Tourmalet, practice your descending - what a fabulous experience that was, with French drivers, bless them, pulling over and waving me past.

Matt the Tester

skinsey wrote:

Rode the Tourmalet last Sept as part of the Raid Pyrenean. It's a fantastic climb, and as such you want to enjoy it as much as possible on the way up as well at the top itself. If you're only of average ability you won't enjoy it on a bottom gear of 39x25, mainly because I suspect you'll be walking much of the way. As others have said, get a bottom gear of at least 34x27, not because there's anything especially steep, but just so that you keep your legs twirling.

As for prep, get on the turbo, a few phone directories under the front wheel, match a heart rate of 80% max to a cadence of 65-70, and stick at it till you feel like death. I'm not being flippant - it worked for me.

And if you truly want to get the most out of the Tourmalet, practice your descending - what a fabulous experience that was, with French drivers, bless them, pulling over and waving me past.

that sounds incredible! i want to do this climb now!

Best of luck mate!!

Paulroth

You should install a Compact 50/34 for sure. Your cassette of 12/27 should be OK with this.

On the side from Grippe through La Mongie - the climb has about 3-4 kms where it is about a 10% average - and this can be grim if you do not have the strength or a fallback gear to grind up in - so be prepared.

Gooner69

Did Tourmalet on the day the tdf went through last year. Had to battle the caravan towards the top, but it was ACE!

Gearing was 39/27 and i was in 27 almost from the bottom. Training consisted of a local 7 minute climb repeated as often as possible (up then back down) in an hour. Did this 3 times a week running up to the trip and im convinced it really helped.

Good luck, and what they said above about the descent

rick_chasey

To train?

Naturally it's a little harder in the winter, ideally it's done outside in the hot sun, but try the toughest setting on a turbo, with the gearing just so it's beyond anything nearing comfortable - then go flat out, and I mean flat out - for 90odd minutes while your wife/girlfriend/friend points a couple hairdryers at you and shouts "YOU WON'T MAKE IT- YOU'RE SH!T! WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS BY CHOICE YOU TALENTLESS SACK OF....!" etc

That's how I would replicate my experience of climbing the Tourmalet.

The only thing that training wouldn't prepair you for is - your position when on a gradient - and the happiness when you reach the top.

Mr Dog

Thanks to you all. Almost wish I'd kept in quiet then I could abandon at the last minute.. but your stories are inspiring. Will fit the 12x27 asap. Hopefully I'll meet others like you on the way to the top and will drink to you all at the summit. It sounds brutal but worthwhile.

sergen

The advice given here about turbo training is very sound way as it's a very good way to replicate the demands of an Hors Categoire climb.

When I rode the Pyrenees in 2009, all of my preparation in the months leading up was done with a power meter and as a result I knew with 100% certainty before I left for France that I was going to get up all the climbs without any problems. There are a few online power calculators that will work out the average power output you will need based on a few key factors, namely your combined body and bike weight, the distance, average gradient, altitude, and time to the summit. I suppose that such a scientific approach took a little of the romance out of the trip but rather that than blowing a fuse.

My objective in training was simply to produce the average power required to reach the summit in 1 hour and 45 minutes. This was done by focusing on increasing Functional Threshold Power. The difference between what the calculator estimated and what I actually produced was 4 watts!

The previous postings on cadence are also very valid. If my training had one flaw it was that I did not focus on producing the average power required within a specified low cadence range. As a result, when I got to the climbs my cadence had to drop to 55-60rpm in order not to exceed my target average power (I would have needed a mountain bike gear ratio to stay within my normal training range of 80rpm) and this was particularly hard on my legs and lower back. I'm no expert on slow twitch muscle fibres but you don't want to wait until the Tourmalet before you start using them.

So in summary I would recommend that you focus on improving your FTP either through turbo training or, if you're lucky enough, on an uninterrupted stretch of road in the countryside nearby where you won't be stopped by traffic lights. The road does not have to be hilly - in fact I would argue that it's preferable for it to be flat because it will be harder to keep the power output high on the downhill parts of an undulating road. And focus on pushing a higher gear so that you produce your target average power (or average heart rate) within a lower cadence range than that which you would normally select.

Have fun.

rc856

Enjoyed reading these posts.
Heading to the Pyrenees in June and the Tourmalet is obviously on the list although I was going to do Luz Ardiden beforehand!
Thankfully I've just bought a compact!

iwillknow

mr Loet Janssen from the Netherlands made this spreadsheet for riders who want to climb Mont Ventoux. Although de spreadsheet is written in dutch , i'm pretty sure you will understand how it works

http://dekaleberg.nl/hoe_snel_kan_ik_ve ... p_v35b.xls


You can add extra climbs. ( Try f.i. www.climbbybike.com)

ut_och_cykla

iwillknow wrote:

mr Loet Janssen from the Netherlands made this spreadsheet for riders who want to climb Mont Ventoux. Although de spreadsheet is written in dutch , i'm pretty sure you will understand how it works

http://dekaleberg.nl/hoe_snel_kan_ik_ve ... p_v35b.xls


You can add extra climbs. ( Try f.i. www.climbbybike.com)

Phew - what a program - can't deal with the Dutch - too lazy.

But I've used Sergens idea prior to my first 'Alp' - Alp Dhuez. Calculated here http://www.noping.net/english/ that 150 W for 2 hours would get me up at a bearable cadence. Got up in 1:57 - dead chuffed! Used 2 x 20s adn tension as I said before - and LOW gears 30/32 MTB on a racing bike.

rick_chasey

I can also recommend from experience that even with a triple with a 30teeth inner ring, only having a 21 on the back is a bad bad bad idea.

nmcgann

Some good advice on this thread. I'd add that the training for 25-50mile time trials is a good fit to the efforts needed for climbing in the high mountains - the long sustained efforts feel very similar.

Add in a decent dose of low-cadence, high-force work and you are good to go

rick_chasey

The main thing is the mental challenge. At a reasonable fitness you'll get up it alright, physically - it's if you can train your brain to deal with that sustained amount of effort (read pain).

When you're body is screaming after 7km and you've still got another 10km, it's tough to deal with that little monster in your brain saying "why are you doing this? Why is this fun? You shouldn't be here!", all the chat about gearing and power output and all the rest goes.

That was what made the difference for me when I went to the Pyranees. First day I just mentally bottled it, even though I could have probably gotten over some of the climbs and ended up climbing in the van. Then I manned up a bit and managed to get over the Aubisque, and by day 3 up the Tourmalet, Aspin, etc I was pushing my mental and physical limits.

celbianchi

I think you'd probably look at your gearing. Whilst you might define yourself as average, I don't have (obviously) a comparison as to how your ability would compare to mine. you might be more average, you might be less average!!
I am a 39 yr old racer, doing road racing, tt, hill climbs and cyclocross.

I have ridden all over the Alps, Alpe Maritime and did the Pyrennees for the first time last summer. I usually take a standard set up of 53/39 and 11/23 on the back.
If I was honest with myself, for the Pyrenees I wish I had put a 25 on. The tourmalet was entirely do-able on 39/23 but would have been nice to have the 25 for a bit, took me just over an hour. It's a fantastic part of the world.
Another thing to think about is the mental side of it, before my very first alpine climb 7 years ago, I was concerned as to whether I'd be able to get up them. Prepare yourself for the fact that you'll be climbing for a long time, the roadside milestone markers let you know what is coming next, (e.g. next km at 9%). Don't let them crack you!

Enjoy - it's a fantastic achievement and buzz to bag your first major Col. You'll be hooked and after more.

lochindaal

I did Tourmalet 3 times last year as I was there for the Etape. It's a really nice scenic climb.

The 3rd time I went up was because my wife wanted a go! My write up and some photo's are here http://www.amateuretape.com/kirst-does-tourmalet/

Whilst I was spinning up nicely on my compact with an 11/28 rear she had to do it on a standard double :oops:

She does the occeasional triathlon so goes out an here bike but not for any long distances and not for any major climbs and with some enforced rests due to punctures made it up.

Take your time and remember to enjoy the views and you'll be fine.

When you go around the final hairpin that ramps really steeply by the summit just don't stop. The summit is hidden about 20 metres around a gentle curve in the road and you can't quite see it. If you stop here you'll never manage to get going again.

rick_chasey

celbianchi wrote:

If I was honest with myself, for the Pyrenees I wish I had put a 25 on. The tourmalet was entirely do-able on 39/23 but would have been nice to have the 25 for a bit, took me just over an hour. It's a fantastic part of the world.

You must have been motoring! Woah.

ariege_cyclist

A lot of good advice here but I'll add my 2p worth.

The mental challenge as mentioned is a big part of any long climb, I've lived 6 years in the Pyrenees (recently returned to the UK) and learnt to enjoy the mental challenge of going almost at the limit for 40 to 75 minutes (depending on the climb), so in that way it is closest to a time trial in terms of effort and pacing.

Except that on a climb you cannot ease off too much (unless you stop) if you have too high gearing, whearas in a TT it is possible to ease off a bit to recover if you've gone too far into the red. So go for the 34 x 27 or lower, even if you never use it it's nice as a back up.

Don't go off too fast at the start, if you go at it like most UK hills then after 2km you'll be fried and limp the rest of the way. If after a few kms you still feel strong then start to build the pace up gradually.

As has been stated, watch the weather forecast (French TV before and after the 8pm news are good, or use meteofrance.fr, look for the mountain weather at La Mongie). I was there last September and October. Both sunny days, September was -5 at the top, October was 15C at the top and over 25C in the valley (barely needed the gilet!), so it can vary massively even in good weather.

Enjoy it, I'm sure you will.