Moving on from SPD to flat pedals - good idea or stupid?

willnjim

Spent the last year riding trails with SPD's (Shimano 540) and feeling there is something missing. A friend of mine who has been a MTB nut for a few years told me to start on SPD's rather than flats. After the obligatory falling off whilst stationary to not getting my feet out during an emergency bale out (slacken off those screws) I feel I need to up my riding skills particularly now its getting warmer and the sun is starting to shine again.

I have searched the forums for advice and it seems that Wellgo MG1 gets the vote along with (by the look of it) any 5-10 shoe.

From experience what gives the best combination bearing in mind I'm 41, need to lose some weight, and ride a Trek Remedy 7?

Comments much appreciated.

idiotdogbrain

I've just switched from SPDs (been using them for over 15 years, never had a problem with them btw) to flats and not sure I'll go back in a hurry to be honest! I got the Superstars Nanotechs, and am loving the wide platform, the ability to dab a foot easily, and the confidence to try stuff I never would have before knowing that I can bail much easier.

5-10s are said to be the best but they're expensive - any skate shoe with a decent sole pattern and not too flexy will work.

Deepunder

A few mates ride with 5-10 's, I know they soak up water like a sponge but they still love em' as they grip like hell. Seeing as we're heading for spring the wet won't be such a big deal as of course it never rains during UK summers does it.

My shoes are not bike specific, I'd say something with soles which are not too aggressive in the tread area. As previous post said skate shoes fit this bill eg. some Vans or Etnies. My Etnies will not die and may survive a nuclear bomb but style may not suit you.

I've always ridden flats off road and it does give more confidence (! have SPD's on skinny wheel road bike) I dab if needed and can get back and pedal without fuss but - let's not get into that as you're question isn't a flat vs spd.

Northwind

MG1s are good, Nanos (whether from Superstar or elsewhere) are also good- thinner but generally heavier for the same money and not, IMO, quite as grippy. Not that it matters as they're still pretty damn grippy

For shoes Shimano AM40s are the business, far better made than 5 10s, very nearly as grippy (so still far more grippy than they need to be), cheaper, and better options. I probably sound like a broken record but 5 10s are poorly made and designed for a dry climate- you can't buy a quality outdoor shoe which uses cardboard in it so why a cycling shoe?

Not that they're bad, mine worked very well til they fell apart, but my AM40s have lasted longer and are still in great shape.

bartimaeus

Shimano shoes - excellent. I have AM45s which I am using with MG1s - and some waterproof socks. Perfect for winter riding. I may swap back to my spds for the summer... but I'm not sure I see much advantage.

tomstickland

I use the Shimano DX flat pedals and 510 shoes.
Brilliant combination.
The pedals last about 2 years without any issues. For £60 they're better value than the cheaper pedals.

The shoes also last about 2 years of full time use and stick to the pedals really well.

I've never used SPD though. I like the idea that I can part company with the bike should I need to.

trail jacker

i use Adidas Stan Smith shoes with Wellgo flats and i have never in 4 years of regular trail riding decorated my shins with scars. I find shimano shoes way too wide and chunky, the adidas are much more slender and i dont ever catch the crank arms pedalling. just a thought for you!

ilovedirt

I've just gone from flats to SPDs, and I find the SPDs give me more confidence, personally. However, I do use flats if i'm doing anything particularly mental, my superstar nano tech pedals are VERY grippy, combined with vans skater shoes, it's a good combo, however, i would advise shin/knee pads.

doug@basqueMTB.com

Flats and SPD's... both have their place. Steve Peat vs Sam Hill - take your pick :-)

What is true (I believe) is that SPD's allow very good riders to get away with very bad technique which you wouldn't be able to get away with on flats. I don't agree with Flats just giving you confidence though, in fact for some stuff it's the opposite at first - wait until your first drop on flats! You really need to get the technique right to get the most out of your flats, if you're not doing it right then you'll end up bleeding, nothing surer than that :-)

I think Northwind is spot on... the AM40's are better than 5:10's. They're cheaper, lighter, as grippy and last a lot longer. A pair have lasted me a full year whereas my 5:10's were dead after half a season. I destroyed a set of expensive pedals in under a season and went onto Superstar Nano's, the bolt through ones, and found them to be excellent. They're about 1yr old and are still running perfectly. They've even still got most of the anodising left!

FWIW my riding improved dramatically when I went to flats. I think the reason is that I learned that I needed to pump the bike, use my legs as suspension and about moving the bike in the air instead of shifting it with my feet. It took some time and I lost some skin but it was worth it :-)

MountainMonster

Ah the good ole flats vs. SPD's debate. Gotta love this one.

I'm actually trying out a set of flats with my skate shoes once my forks are fixed. I fancy doing a bit more hardcore riding, with bike park trips being my target location, and wouldn't want SPD's on some of the trails there.

Eventually will probably get a dedicated pair of shoes for MTB, but until then I see no problem with the skates!

Northwind

doug@basqueMTB.com wrote:

Flats and SPD's... both have their place. Steve Peat vs Sam Hill - take your pick :-)

Best choice is to be Gee Atherton I think, he's a missile on either. TBH I think most riders will benefit from using both (and not just "trying" the other sort because the first few rides are horrible, you go from being an experienced skilled rider to being a knobber... You need time to learn the new pedals) And then you can make an informed choice about what you prefer too- most people who prefer one or the other have never really used the alternative IMO.

(I had to stop using SPDs because of injury and I hated flats, til eventually I realised it wasn't flats I hated, it was just having my shortcomings be so clear and having to relearn basics that I'd not had to worry about since about 1990. Now I'm not sure which I prefer, both have their advantages.

Anonymous

willnjim wrote:

A friend of mine who has been a MTB nut for a few years told me to start on SPD's rather than flats.

THIS is the crap that pi**es me off about SPDs. The superiority complex that is all to common among SPuD riders.

Ride whatever you want, don't let anyone else tell you what to use. Flats are fine, SPDs are fine. It's your choice.

scarbs85

Advising a new biker straight onto SPD's isnt a good idea surely? I'm going through this debate myself atm. I opted for the flats on the basis that I'm only just starting really, and not a great rider. I need to get feet down. Im not fit or skilled enough to keep feet on the pedals over everything I ride.

When I have those skills down, and I'm dabbing a foot less and less, I might look at SPDs just for comparison and make my mind up then. For now I have bought some Superstar Nanos, which hopefully will be waiting on the doormat for me when I get home! Flats just seem safer to learn on to me.

Northwind

It seems a daft idea to me tbh... A new rider's got enough to worry about, and also it's an extra expense for the kit. But I guess it depends on the rider.

Wallace1492

yeehaamcgee wrote:

willnjim wrote:

A friend of mine who has been a MTB nut for a few years told me to start on SPD's rather than flats.

THIS is the crap that pi**es me off about SPDs. The superiority complex that is all to common among SPuD riders.

Ride whatever you want, don't let anyone else tell you what to use. Flats are fine, SPDs are fine. It's your choice.

Personally I would go the other way. Start on flat's then when confident and if you wanted to, then move to spud's. Me, I prefer flats.

MuddyFunster

Avoiding the entire "which is best debate", I'd offer my own experience of the SPDs to flatties transition, which seems to echo some of the comments in the thread already... After 15+years of being firmly bolted to the bike, using flatties with SPD-honed technique and an old pair of Salomon trail shoes resulted in:
a) getting bounced off the pedals on some rather tame trails
b) a consequential loss of confidence
One pair of AM40's later and I'm a lot happier on the flatties but have to run a constant internal monologue of "heels down, soft knees, heels down, soft knees". Moving about on the bike is easier and a dropper post is helpful for getting the saddle out of the way. But I'm now petrified of jumps and drops. Getting over those two phobias is going to be a challenge... Any tips?

Anonymous

Sounds like you have the exact opposite of "SPD honed technique"

legin

shimano am40 are very good ive just gone back to flats.i use dmr v12 but the superstart or wellgos are both good.

curlie467

yeehaamcgee wrote:

willnjim wrote:

A friend of mine who has been a MTB nut for a few years told me to start on SPD's rather than flats.

THIS is the crap that pi**es me off about SPDs. The superiority complex that is all to common among SPuD riders.

Ride whatever you want, don't let anyone else tell you what to use. Flats are fine, SPDs are fine. It's your choice.

I agree yeehaamcgee! There seems to be an almost SPD like snobbery, similar to roadies (no offence roadies).
I tried them but prefer flats, simple as that really! It is purely down to what you are comfortable with. I still get told that SPDs are better and i will ride better etc but really, i am crap and will remain crap on whatever pedal i ride but i sure as hell am enjoying myself and glad to be out there riding!

getonyourbike

I also have so many people say that pedaling efficiency is better and you can easily hop with clipless but the thing is, I'm faster than the people that are telling me this and it'll only teach me bad habits. They also say that your feet slip off the pedals, but that is purely down to their bad technique. They need to have 'soft knees' and drop their heels.

willnjim

Thanks. Some good responses here.

The debate on SPD's v Flats seems to have raised its head again. I'm going to go with whatever feels best as I'm riding for enjoyment. Afterall, we do this for fun don't we?

Tried to get my hands on some Shimano AM40's but size 44's seem to be sold out everywhere. The replacement AM41's look like cheap trainers (at a premium price) - probably just as good but someone has stolen the style.....

Think I'll try some Superstar Nano's judigng by the feedback and attempt to find some AM40's for less than £90.

All I'll need to do then is remember to keep the heels down and kick my SPD bad habits.

Northwind

I've never seen a cheap trainer as hideous as the AM41s. And it's not like the AM40s are a looker either so it must have been a full time project to make these worse. Ah well.

captainfly

I was seriously thinking of trying clipless, just for more speed from jump to jump on a local track, but saw some old footage of Rob Warner, so tried the pedal in the middle of the foot length and it is going really well SPDs are something I want try but can't justify.

yoohoo999

Move over to flats, ride them for a while, then decide which you prefer (it might be a combination of both, depending on where/what you are riding that weekend).

I spent the first 10 years in this sport riding nothing but flats. I quited liked SPDs when I first started using them, but felt that for the type of riding I do, flats were more suitable for me.

Another thing that struck me was how often my feet slip off my flats. Almost never.

Although it's sort of at the back of my mind on a really rough section or big drops, it's rare that I lose control of the bike.

I do wish I had them for some HT climbs though. My climbing technique is very poor when my legs are tired. But climbing is for mugs anyway, best to just get off and push when you're that tired, no point spoiling the run back down

cee

willnjim wrote:

Tried to get my hands on some Shimano AM40's but size 44's seem to be sold out everywhere. The replacement AM41's look like cheap trainers (at a premium price) - probably just as good but someone has stolen the style.....

you know....I was looking for new flat shoes last week....and encountered this exact same issue......couldn't get a decent set of flat shoes anywhere.....

And before anyone says 5:10's or skate shoes.......they just don't work for me.

We regularly do big days in the highlands (60+ miles in the day)...that means that a shoe that sucks up water like a sponge weighs more than it should towards the second half of a ride (so rules out 5:10's)....but is also durable for the inevitable hike a bike sections to the top of the 3rd Munro that day! (So thats skate shoes out)

I loved my previous shoes (Shimano DX mp56)....great for all day adventures....weather proof....the flap over the laces is a godsend.....more durable and less prone to sucking in water and weighing your feet down than 5:10's...perfect....

So here i am looking for something similar...durable, weather resistant, comfortable, I like a high inside ankle...it exists....i.e the AM 40 44 etc....but not only look like cheap mobile phones, but are not available anywhere in my size (45)

So i bought a set of spd pedals and the white shimano dx spud shoes. I figure, i have been riding flats since I started, so I should give the spuds a go and see which i prefer.

willnjim

Thanks to al for the responses.

Bought some Shimano AM40's (found some at last) with Wellgo MG1 pedals.

Will keep the clipless pedals for spare and the rain.

Looking forward to the change and fixing those bad habits.

idiotdogbrain

Where did you get the AM40's and at what price? Been trying to find a cheap pair of 45s but no dice...

willnjim

idiotdogbrain wrote:

Where did you get the AM40's and at what price? Been trying to find a cheap pair of 45s but no dice...

Try: http://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/produc ... ?&id=10350

or

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=31537

Anything above a size 40 is like rocking horse s***.

Just bought a pair of 44s and a pair of 45s to get a good fit (will be sending one of them back at £71.99 a go).

Correction: as of 2 miniutes ago, Leisure Lakes Bikes have no size 44's in stock.

Northwind

I'm miffed about that, I was going to buy another pair of 43s when they were £55 and decided not to :roll: OTOH I aready look like a tosser so buying stupid looking shoes isn't going to make it any worse.

cee

Northwind wrote:

I'm miffed about that, I was going to buy another pair of 43s when they were £55 and decided not to :roll: OTOH I aready look like a tosser so buying stupid looking shoes isn't going to make it any worse.

Just keep them muddy!

Northwind

Annoyingly, Shimano use some really mud-repellant material. Usually that'd be a good thing.