Out of the 'loop' for 20 years! - advice needed

Gary.

Hi all,

Some time back I was seriously into Mountain Biking, but due to my distance from any serious hills (Suffolk!) have diversified into different 'free sport' pass times. Plus the demon bottle has had it's worth on my body. I've always kept my toe in just a little and have ridden here and there, but it has slowly took a back shelf whilst all the other stuff takes over; work, kids, winter darkness etc.

I don't think I've picked up a copy of MBUK since about 1991, as was then an avid reader and I think even have some of the sections from the road bike magazine that it was born from! Any hoo, I'm hoping to get back in the saddle more and am seriously in the dark when it comes down to what to ride, what gear to wear etc!

For the last 8 years I've been riding a trusty Gary Fisher Supercaliber 29er. But ever since buying it found it too sloppy and just a little flimsy for my riding style. I just never got out enough to bother doing anything about it. So firstly, I'm looking to sell the 29er and buy something to replace as single 'all day' riding machine. Was keen on sticking with a 26" hard tail, but after a visit to coed y brenin, I see that everyone has turned 'soft' and now ride full sus. Why is that, does the rear bounce not absorb all climbing energy?

So for starters, what's the deal between hard tail and full sus xc type bikes.

Anonymous

In what way do you mean "what's the deal"?
Full suss is better. It's the way off road vehicles should be.
Hardtails are for lower end bikes, or for weight weenies.

butcher of bakersfield

Gary. wrote:

So for starters, what's the deal between hard tail and full sus xc type bikes.

Whole can of worms that!

Hard tails are still being ridden. Which you'll realise when you realise what kind of thread you've created..!

And yes, rear suss will absorb some of your effort going upwards, but the same can be true of hardtails depending on the terrain - when you're bouncing all over the place, in which case the full suss can come up trumps. So both can be good climbers, and the suss can generally be locked out if needs be.

I do prefer the simplicity of a hardtail myself. I don't ride hard enough to really get the benefits from full suss, even though it would be nice to be able to keep up with my mates! I bought ny current bike with the intention of getting a full suss later on as a second bike. But tbh, I've lost all interest in that idea. Now planning on adding another hardtail instead.

So really, I guess it's nothing more than personal preference. There's pros and cons of each, but the technology has come a long way and there's not a lot between them. A full bouncer will always be faster on the downs, it makes a big difference in that department, and generally more forgiving...just means you get the same amount of fun doing half the speed on a hardtail..

Horses for courses.

u05harrisb

good all rounder a hard tail is the best option, more simple and therefore more reliable. it weights less and are cheaper too. yep you guessed it i race XC and only ride and race bridleways and the local resivoir im not a weight weenie because i havnt got the money i would only consider getting a full sus if i started doing "real" all day epic riding in the downs and such, i would get myself an XC hardtail i.e. full sus but instead of 130+mm i would have 80-100mm at max.

many people now ride 130mm hardtail and they are good at everything from trail centers to cross country if your strong enough (there heavier). many ride 130+ full sus, as said horses for coarses and all that! i olve my hard tail and wouldnt trade it for anything purely becuase its not fast enough for my "style" anybody who turns up to club runs on a FS even an XC one tends to get left for dust

hope that helps and begins to open the can of worms haha

Anonymous

u05harrisb wrote:

im not a weight weenie because i havnt got the money

ahem, cough cough

bluechair84

Gary. wrote:

Why is that, does the rear bounce not absorb all climbing energy?

Have a trundle out with a local club and ask to try a few others bikes, I'm sure they'd oblige and you'd be surprised at how efficient modern suss is.

cooldad

I agree tough guys ride hardtails

wordnumb

Gary. wrote:

I see that everyone has turned 'soft' and now ride full sus.

You should definitely bring this up with riders in person when you see them out.

Anonymous

a change of tact I see

couldashouldawoulda

ime - most "born agains" (inc me) will buy a good hardtail to start. This has a number of advantages -
1: It gives you a good excuse to bottle downhill stuff while you reawaken / relearn your skills.
2: It gives a slight edge for the relatively unfit on climbs.
3: less maintainence / faffing.
4: Easier to manual / bunny hop.
5: You avoid the "you roll up on a FS you MUST ride like a god or else you look like a plonker" issue.
6: When / if you realise you are now too old / uninterested a HT is possibly easier to sell / holds value better (assuming you bought well).

On the otherhand -
1: your back may not take kindly to a HT.
2: With poor technique: drops, jumps, general gnarlieness are easily blamed on equipment rather than practice / skills.

In conclusion: get both. But get a HT first.

Pirahna

I've returned to mountain biking this year after a lengthy absence. I went to Rutland cycles at Graffham Water and hired bikes for a couple of weekends before buying a hard tail.

I tried a couple of full suspension bikes, both around the £2k point and didn't enjoy them at all. Granted that the shocks weren't set up for me, but climbing on them was horrible. Neither had remote lockout on the shocks and they badly needed it. Trying to find the lockout lever on the shock when riding was a pain and for the sort of terrain I'll be riding couldn't see the point of adding weight and complexity I didn't need.

The biggest revelation were the brakes. I'd never tried discs before and was very impressed.

Anonymous

A well designed, well setup full suss shouldn't need lockout.

idiotdogbrain

Agreed, you just need to adjust your riding style. Coming off a fully rigid Marin onto a 120mm Trance X I hated how it climbed at first as it felt like it was swallowing all my energy. Couple of rides later, shocks set up for my weight, riding style adjusted, it climbs just as well, if not better over the rough stuff (don't stand, just sit and let the suspension do the work) - and is far faster coming down the other side!

jacob2910

"u05harrisb" im not a weight weenie because i havnt got the money :

OI that's my line

Gary.

Many thanks for your responses. Apologies for being non-pc.

I think my gut feel is hard-tail. I'm quite tricky and like to hop big if required, I just feel the full-sus is going to absorb part of the joy for me.

Northwind

I think one of the reasons you'd see so many full sussers at coed y brenin is that riding the rockpitching on a hardtail is a bit like being bummed by a gorilla. Now I'm quite partial to a bit of ape rape so I took my Mmmbop but halfway round I saw a feller on an Idrive 5 and I was very close to killing him and stealing his halfords bike.

Modern full sussers can be pretty damn efficient and sometimes actually easier to climb than hardtails- hard edges like rocks, steps etc can soak up speed on a HT whereas a full suss will sometimes track over them. Some others do sacrifice pedalling in favour of more active suspension... And others just aren't that well designed

yeehaamcgee wrote:

a change of tact I see

It's tack you monkey

Anonymous

Northwind wrote:

yeehaamcgee wrote:

a change of tact I see

It's tack you monkey

Not round here it isn't.

bike-a-swan

Northwind wrote:

I think one of the reasons you'd see so many full sussers at coed y brenin is that riding the rockpitching on a hardtail is a bit like being bummed by a gorilla. Now I'm quite partial to a bit of ape rape so I took my Mmmbop but halfway round I saw a feller on an Idrive 5 and I was very close to killing him and stealing his halfords bike.

Agreed. First time I rode CYB I thought my spine was going to fall apart. Change of tyres and technique has made subsequent trips a lot less brutal (i.e. two days at CYB and climachx were alright, just the third morning at penmachno finished me off). I think my lobster is probably a little more gentle to the spine than the mmmmmmmmbop though

Northwind

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Not round here it isn't.

It's used wrong in all sorts of places. But it's a nautical term, which means changing direction. Changing tact is just gibberish, you either have tact or you don't, it's not something you can change. So nyah

ilovedirt

Northwind wrote:

I think one of the reasons you'd see so many full sussers at coed y brenin is that riding the rockpitching on a hardtail is a bit like being bummed by a gorilla. Now I'm quite partial to a bit of ape rape so I took my Mmmbop but halfway round I saw a feller on an Idrive 5 and I was very close to killing him and stealing his halfords bike.

You need a healthy dose of MTFU!
But seriously, I know what you mean, there are some sections on there, where a fully would make it a lot kinder on your body, however, there's nothing too bad, the only one that really comes to mind is the beginning of the end, partly because it's brutally bumpy, and partly because it's right at the end, just when you really don't want to be thrown all over the place!

If a fully is set up properly though, it will climb better than a hardtail though, as it can grip the surfaces better as it keeps contact with it more of the time.

Northwind

Hah, yeah, I I know the bit you mean. The reason i was getting a wee bit tired of it is just that it's harder to keep momentum going on stuff like that, I was having to work pretty hard to stay ahead of my mates. But then my full suss would have just bounced over the top of it all and made it less fun. It's one of the few places I've really thought a full suss has a big advantage over a hardtail, other than on DH trails.

Anonymous

Northwind wrote:

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Not round here it isn't.

It's used wrong in all sorts of places. But it's a nautical term, which means changing direction. Changing tact is just gibberish, you either have tact or you don't, it's not something you can change. So nyah

I'm not convinced. I've only ever heard change tact. When you're tacking a boat, you're changing course or heading, right, not changing tack. To tack is to make progress by zig zagging diagonally into the wind.

chrisga

Nope, sorry Yeehaa. Incorrect. When you are sailing along you are either on a port tack or starboard tack. Depending on which side of the boat the wind is coming from or the sails are on. So, although while correct that to tack is changing course, you are also changing tack. So the other poster is correct. For example, a boat sailing on a starboard tack (wind coming over starboard side of boat) has priority over one sailing on a port tack.

Tacking isnt making progress by zigzagging into the wind. Tacking is turning the boat so the bow passes through the wind. Beating is making progress into the wind.

Anonymous

Well, I'll be damned.

(I have to say, I'm quite dissapointed there's no QI style "NURRRRGH" sound )

Anonymous

Northwind wrote:

But then my full suss would have just bounced over the top of it all and made it less fun.

It's no less fun. It's faster.

Northwind

Nah, don't think that worked for me, not for CYB, what I loved about it and what made it so different from most trails was having to work the rocks so hard. I had a wee go on my mate's Heckler on one of the really pitched bits... Can't remember which, it was maybe on Tarw not the Beast but I've got them all mixed up. Anyway, all of a sudden the elements I loved were gone and it was more like just riding a regular lumpy trail, and then it all got a bit dull and forgettable. YMMV of course.

Anonymous

Ride faster then.

Northwind

Don't think you're getting my point, on a hardtail it's got a pretty unique feel and that's what I loved most about it, on a full suss it's less so, so just going faster didn't get back what it'd lost (in fact quite the opposite). It just made it more of a "just another trail" and you can get that anywhere.

Anonymous

Northwind wrote:

Don't think you're getting my point, on a hardtail it's got a pretty unique feel and that's what I loved most about it, on a full suss it's less so, so just going faster didn't get back what it'd lost (in fact quite the opposite). It just made it more of a "just another trail" and you can get that anywhere.

No, I don't get you at all. After having ridden there on a rigid, then a hardtail, then a full suss, I definitely had more fun on the full suss.
I don't think your definition of "fast" is the same as mine.

Northwind

Or, we enjoyed different things about the trail :? I'm not telling you what you should like about it, I'm telling you what I liked about it and once I turned the speed up past what I could achieve on the hardtail, it lost that distinctiveness and character.

Anonymous

You need to ride faster.
The feeling of barrelling down a sinewy singletrack, whether it's covered in rocks the size of small hatchbacks ,or smooth, is unbeatable. Trying to change direction quickly enough to not end up in an embankment, the tyres scrabbling for grip as the bike slides both wheels sideways, having to turn for the next corner whilst the bike is still drifting the opposite way from the previous twist, popping over a crest, with the wheels just ever so slightly airborne, going sideways, preparing for more grip in a dip because the bike Gs out, and having to compensate the corner for it, it's all fun.
Full suss means you can do that over rougher ground, because there's more traction. The bike isn't losing grip over each and every rock bump and root.

It's what I did on rigids, it's what I did on hardtails (and still do) and it's what I do on a full suss. But the intensity is greater with the full suss because your entry speeed is much higher, the corners come much more rapidly and in very quick succession.
It's mountain biking, it's being alive.