Cancellara Query

moray_gub

Pross wrote:

25 caps in rugby back then was a lot. You had to play a whole game and some internationals were uncapped. I'd say he was as close to a rugby equivalent of Pele as you could get.

I think his career does not deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Pele, great rugby player sure but his short career and 5 Lions caps goes against him especially compared to the other great Welsh player of that era Gareth Edwards who had 53 caps and 10 Lions caps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwCbG4I0QyA

Plus Pele transcends the sporting world with his greatness much like Ali does as well where as you could hardly say that about Barry John.

Homer J

Aggieboy wrote:

all show no go wrote:

I questioned his performance at the Worlds TT on this very forum. He is obviously an astonishing athlete in a natural sense. But I do wonder, when you see how he so comprehensively eats up everything in front of him on the road, and wins by minutes rather than seconds in a time trial.
Maybe he's just a freak of nature though...

Once in a while nature throws us a someone that is sublime in sport. To me, people such as Steve Davis, Phil "the power" Taylor, Ali, Pele, Michael Jordan, Usain Bolt, Michael Johnson, Barry John and Michael Phelps. I like to think he is one.

+1

dougzz

The whole Ali thing is mostly myth, he was rather a nasty piece of work in some ways. Clearly racist and his treatment of Joe Frazier was appalling.

RichN95.

Moray Gub wrote:

Pross wrote:

25 caps in rugby back then was a lot. You had to play a whole game and some internationals were uncapped. I'd say he was as close to a rugby equivalent of Pele as you could get.

I think his career does not deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Pele, great rugby player sure but his short career and 5 Lions caps goes against him especially compared to the other great Welsh player of that era Gareth Edwards who had 53 caps and 10 Lions caps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwCbG4I0QyA

Plus Pele transcends the sporting world with his greatness much like Ali does as well where as you could hardly say that about Barry John.

Come down to Cardiff and say that!

Seriously though, a length of career shouldn't necessarily be a judge of greatness. Just look at the likes of Duncan Edwards & Roger Riviere in sport and many in music & film.

moray_gub

RichN95 wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

Pross wrote:

25 caps in rugby back then was a lot. You had to play a whole game and some internationals were uncapped. I'd say he was as close to a rugby equivalent of Pele as you could get.

I think his career does not deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Pele, great rugby player sure but his short career and 5 Lions caps goes against him especially compared to the other great Welsh player of that era Gareth Edwards who had 53 caps and 10 Lions caps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwCbG4I0QyA

Plus Pele transcends the sporting world with his greatness much like Ali does as well where as you could hardly say that about Barry John.

Come down to Cardiff and say that!

Seriously though, a length of career shouldn't necessarily be a judge of greatness. Just look at the likes of Duncan Edwards & Roger Riviere in sport and many in music & film.

maybe but it helps no end i mean other than cycling anoraks who has heard of roger riviere,as for edwards dont you think his greatness is down to what he could have been rather than what he was

RichN95.

Moray Gub wrote:

maybe but it helps no end i mean other than cycling anoraks who has heard of roger riviere,as for edwards dont you think his greatness is down to what he could have been rather than what he was

Maybe. But seriously, Barry John is seen as one of the geniuses of rugby, from Cardiff to Auckland. Just don't get in a conversation with him, he's a boring, arrogant, alcoholic f***er. I prefer Gareth Edwards, who I've never met, and JPR, whose daughter I know.

rossigp

It said that he has an uncanny way of peaking during the races he targets and his legs look like thier off of Shwarzenegger..from the 70's of course ! He actually looks like a stronger rider than everyone else. Either way, a few guys on this thread were right, he is great to watch. Seeing Fab win TT's and races like PR doesn't surprise me but seeing a beanpole with pencil legs like Contador dominate a TT, then I shake my head a little !

moray_gub

RichN95 wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

maybe but it helps no end i mean other than cycling anoraks who has heard of roger riviere,as for edwards dont you think his greatness is down to what he could have been rather than what he was

Maybe. But seriously, Barry John is seen as one of the geniuses of rugby, from Cardiff to Auckland. Just don't get in a conversation with him, he's a boring, arrogant, alcoholic f***er. I prefer Gareth Edwards, who I've never met, and JPR, whose daughter I know.

He may have been a supremely talented rugby player but if i asked 20 guys in my work today who he was i doubt more than 2 or 3 would know , however if i asked them who Pele or Ali was they would all know thats what i am getting at..

moray_gub

dougzz wrote:

The whole Ali thing is mostly myth, he was rather a nasty piece of work in some ways. Clearly racist and his treatment of Joe Frazier was appalling.

Nobody said he was nice i am talking about his sporting greatness and his worldwide acclaim. A lot of top sportsmen have a nasty way about them.

moray_gub

dougzz wrote:

The whole Ali thing is mostly myth, he was rather a nasty piece of work in some ways. Clearly racist and his treatment of Joe Frazier was appalling.

Nobody said he was nice i am talking about his sporting greatness and his worldwide acclaim. A lot of top sportsmen have a nasty way about them.

dbb

oops - i thought this was a thread about Cancellara?
it looks like i was mistaken

Garry H

Moray Gub wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

He may have been a supremely talented rugby player but if i asked 20 guys in my work today who he was i doubt more than 2 or 3 would know , however if i asked them who Pele or Ali was they would all know thats what i am getting at..

But you could say the same thing about Merckx. Pele and Ali were involved in sports that are truly international, hence their worldwide fame. On a "sporting genius" (for want of a better phrase) level, I would place Pele, Ali, Merckx and Barry John (convicted drink-driver to boot) in the same place, and all were in their prime at the same time, so the comparisons are obvious.

As someone said above John was as close a Rugby equivalent of Pele as you could get, his skill with the ball was truly sublime. The fact that he retired at th 27 adds to his mystique, what if etc. Fortunately for Wales though, he was replaced by Phil Bennet.

Aye, Cancellara's not bad either. Greatest rider of his eneration, arguably.