Cancellara Query

TMR
TMR Posts: 3,986
edited February 2011 in Pro race
I watched Fabian Cancellara destroy the field at the 2010 Roubaix last night. Given all the hoo-hah about Lance, Floyd and Alberto and what 'assistance' they may or may not have had in the past, I wondered why no-one has questioned Fabian. He absolutely destroyed everyone. He does this in just about every TT he enters as well.

Is he clean or not? Opinions please.
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Comments

  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,821
    Word is he had a petrol driven bike.






    Or something
  • Karl2010
    Karl2010 Posts: 511
    Isnt he like x3 World TT Champion?

    He's Always been a strong TT'ist.
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    I'm not disputing the fact that he's a phenomenal athlete. But whenever I see a single rider comprehensively annihilate every other rider, my brain goes into 'WTF?' mode.
  • shockedsoshocked
    shockedsoshocked Posts: 4,021
    People like him.
    "A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"

    PTP Runner Up 2015
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    He's been questioned a fair amount I'd say. From having been coached by Cecchini to the rumours in Europe saying he was using something specific it's not he's been suspected by many.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • all show no go
    all show no go Posts: 542
    I questioned his performance at the Worlds TT on this very forum. He is obviously an astonishing athlete in a natural sense. But I do wonder, when you see how he so comprehensively eats up everything in front of him on the road, and wins by minutes rather than seconds in a time trial.
    Maybe he's just a freak of nature though...
    Let's close our eyes and see what happens
  • bazbadger
    bazbadger Posts: 553
    There was an epic thread about the motorised bike theory. I seem to remember a vid showing a couple of guys at one of the races with a bike that had a motor fitted and how it worked.

    It was the kind of thread that would be enjoyed by people into conspiracy theories :)

    Unless they impound and xray bikes at the end of each race... :lol:

    Perhaps he is just genuinely very quick!!
    Mens agitat molem
  • guinea
    guinea Posts: 1,177
    all show no go wrote:
    Maybe he's just a freak of nature though...

    Whether he's juiced or not he's still a freak of nature. I don't believe he's prepares any more or less than any other TT'er.

    Appart from maybe a little more lithium :)
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    bazbadger wrote:
    Unless they impound and xray bikes at the end of each race... :lol:

    Didn't they X-Ray frames during the 2010 TdF?
    Perhaps he is just genuinely very quick!!

    Perhaps :wink:
  • Aggieboy
    Aggieboy Posts: 3,996
    all show no go wrote:
    I questioned his performance at the Worlds TT on this very forum. He is obviously an astonishing athlete in a natural sense. But I do wonder, when you see how he so comprehensively eats up everything in front of him on the road, and wins by minutes rather than seconds in a time trial.
    Maybe he's just a freak of nature though...

    Once in a while nature throws us a someone that is sublime in sport. To me, people such as Ali, Pele, Michael Jordan, Usain Bolt, Michael Johnson, Barry John and Michael Phelps. I like to think he is one.
    "There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world, t'would be a pity to damage yours."
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    I think it's not going too far to say Canc would win most time trials without juice...
    _
  • Tusher
    Tusher Posts: 2,762
    Let's just enjoy him whilst we can.
  • dulldave
    dulldave Posts: 949
    Aggieboy wrote:
    all show no go wrote:
    I questioned his performance at the Worlds TT on this very forum. He is obviously an astonishing athlete in a natural sense. But I do wonder, when you see how he so comprehensively eats up everything in front of him on the road, and wins by minutes rather than seconds in a time trial.
    Maybe he's just a freak of nature though...

    Once in a while nature throws us a someone that is sublime in sport. To me, people such as Ali, Pele, Michael Jordan, Usain Bolt, Michael Johnson, Barry John and Michael Phelps. I like to think he is one.

    Usain Bolt? I have no belief in him being clean.
    Scottish and British...and a bit French
  • disquieting_museeuws
    disquieting_museeuws Posts: 601
    The whole motorised doping thing was certainly magnificent promotion for Gruber Assist (the cynic in me says)!
  • shockedsoshocked
    shockedsoshocked Posts: 4,021
    dulldave wrote:
    Aggieboy wrote:
    all show no go wrote:
    I questioned his performance at the Worlds TT on this very forum. He is obviously an astonishing athlete in a natural sense. But I do wonder, when you see how he so comprehensively eats up everything in front of him on the road, and wins by minutes rather than seconds in a time trial.
    Maybe he's just a freak of nature though...

    Once in a while nature throws us a someone that is sublime in sport. To me, people such as Ali, Pele, Michael Jordan, Usain Bolt, Michael Johnson, Barry John and Michael Phelps. I like to think he is one.

    Usain Bolt? I have no belief in him being clean.

    Or Johnson or Phelps...
    "A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"

    PTP Runner Up 2015
  • MrTapir
    MrTapir Posts: 1,206
    ShockedSoShocked wrote:
    dulldave wrote:
    Aggieboy wrote:
    all show no go wrote:
    I questioned his performance at the Worlds TT on this very forum. He is obviously an astonishing athlete in a natural sense. But I do wonder, when you see how he so comprehensively eats up everything in front of him on the road, and wins by minutes rather than seconds in a time trial.
    Maybe he's just a freak of nature though...

    Once in a while nature throws us a someone that is sublime in sport. To me, people such as Ali, Pele, Michael Jordan, Usain Bolt, Michael Johnson, Barry John and Michael Phelps. I like to think he is one.

    Usain Bolt? I have no belief in him being clean.

    Or Johnson or Phelps...

    Barry John!
  • pedro118118
    pedro118118 Posts: 1,102
    ShockedSoShocked wrote:
    People like him.

    I don't - not since his self-appointment as Race Director at last year's TdF. Sitting up and waiting for the main GC contenders was one thing (although still not sure I agreed with it), but insisting the sprint was neutralised is quite another. And then to nail it at the front over the pave, with similar carnage behind amongst leading GC riders and yellow jersey, the very next day, well..................I'm sure having Schleck A on his wheel (and Bertie/ Armstrong/Gessink/Basso etc all floundering behind) had no bearing.

    This aside, his performance at P-R was epic, but not entirely out of character - didn't he win his first with a similar long strike for home? And to be fair, only Boonen was chasing, so it was effectively mano e mano and there's only ever going to be one winner in a flat 50km time trial between those two - cobbles or no cobbles.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    pedro118118 wrote:
    ShockedSoShocked wrote:
    People like him.

    I don't - not since his self-appointment as Race Director at last year's TdF. Sitting up and waiting for the main GC contenders was one thing (although still not sure I agreed with it), but insisting the sprint was neutralised is quite another. And then to nail it at the front over the pave, with similar carnage behind amongst leading GC riders and yellow jersey, the very next day, well..................I'm sure having Schleck A on his wheel (and Bertie/ Armstrong/Gessink/Basso etc all floundering behind) had no bearing.

    This aside, his performance at P-R was epic, but not entirely out of character - didn't he win his first with a similar long strike for home? And to be fair, only Boonen was chasing, so it was effectively mano e mano and there's only ever going to be one winner in a flat 50km time trial between those two - cobbles or no cobbles.

    Flanders was more jaw-dropping than Roubaix. When the helicopter draws out at the top of the Muur I could barely believe the gap between him and Boonen was even possible.

    I don't know why people are so surprised about his TdF stuff. It's pretty standard self interest and it seemed to make sense. If you dominate races in the way he does, you earn the right to do that in races. It's part of racing - the long game. People also forget he gave up his yellow jersey for it - which is pretty significant. With hindsight we know he got it back, but Chavanel is usually not anywhere near as bad on cobbles, so getting it back was not going to be that likely. He earned the yellow jersey, and gave it up for team advantage. Sounds pretty standard to me.

    I'd also suggest that if he was in the minority opinion on that day he wouldn't have been the 'patron' either.


    I think people's opinions on him may change if they see him motoring up Côte de la Redoute mind...
    _
  • Aggieboy
    Aggieboy Posts: 3,996
    MrTapir wrote:
    ShockedSoShocked wrote:
    dulldave wrote:
    Aggieboy wrote:
    all show no go wrote:
    I questioned his performance at the Worlds TT on this very forum. He is obviously an astonishing athlete in a natural sense. But I do wonder, when you see how he so comprehensively eats up everything in front of him on the road, and wins by minutes rather than seconds in a time trial.
    Maybe he's just a freak of nature though...

    Once in a while nature throws us a someone that is sublime in sport. To me, people such as Ali, Pele, Michael Jordan, Usain Bolt, Michael Johnson, Barry John and Michael Phelps. I like to think he is one.

    Usain Bolt? I have no belief in him being clean.

    Or Johnson or Phelps...

    Barry John!

    Seen him play??
    "There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world, t'would be a pity to damage yours."
  • Aggieboy
    Aggieboy Posts: 3,996
    ShockedSoShocked wrote:
    dulldave wrote:
    Aggieboy wrote:
    all show no go wrote:
    I questioned his performance at the Worlds TT on this very forum. He is obviously an astonishing athlete in a natural sense. But I do wonder, when you see how he so comprehensively eats up everything in front of him on the road, and wins by minutes rather than seconds in a time trial.
    Maybe he's just a freak of nature though...

    Once in a while nature throws us a someone that is sublime in sport. To me, people such as Ali, Pele, Michael Jordan, Usain Bolt, Michael Johnson, Barry John and Michael Phelps. I like to think he is one.

    Usain Bolt? I have no belief in him being clean.

    Or Johnson or Phelps...

    Is it a prerequisite of being in Pro Race that you need to mistrust everyone!!?
    "There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world, t'would be a pity to damage yours."
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    Aggieboy wrote:
    ShockedSoShocked wrote:
    dulldave wrote:
    Aggieboy wrote:
    all show no go wrote:
    I questioned his performance at the Worlds TT on this very forum. He is obviously an astonishing athlete in a natural sense. But I do wonder, when you see how he so comprehensively eats up everything in front of him on the road, and wins by minutes rather than seconds in a time trial.
    Maybe he's just a freak of nature though...

    Once in a while nature throws us a someone that is sublime in sport. To me, people such as Ali, Pele, Michael Jordan, Usain Bolt, Michael Johnson, Barry John and Michael Phelps. I like to think he is one.

    Usain Bolt? I have no belief in him being clean.

    Or Johnson or Phelps...

    Is it a prerequisite of being in Pro Race that you need to mistrust everyone!!?

    History would show that to be the safest option.

    To think, everyone once thought Tyler Hamilton clean because he was gritty, and loved his dawg.
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    I think there is undoubtedly a question mark there but...

    Watch the London prologue and compare how he powers his bike through the very same corner that Stuart o'Grady couldn't even get round. He has sublime bike handling skills which must be worth up to a minute on a really technical TT course.
  • senoj
    senoj Posts: 213
    Tusher wrote:
    Let's just enjoy him whilst we can.

    Yes.
    Hes my favourite rider,as in my mind he is drug free.
    Dont ask me to alloborate,I just think hes honest.
  • TheStone
    TheStone Posts: 2,291
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Flanders was more jaw-dropping than Roubaix. When the helicopter draws out at the top of the Muur I could barely believe the gap between him and Boonen was even possible.

    A lot of that was on the descent. His bike handling is brilliant, which might also explain Roubaix.
    exercise.png
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    senoj wrote:
    Tusher wrote:
    Let's just enjoy him whilst we can.

    Yes.
    Hes my favourite rider,as in my mind he is drug free.
    Dont ask me to alloborate,I just think hes honest.

    He is bloody exciting.

    There's no rider more exciting when he's on form.
    _
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    I believe he is clean. The reason being he tends to struggle in the TTs at the end of a long stage race relative to when he is fresh. One of the key benefits of doping is surely the reduction in fatigue? Obviously this depends on the choice of juice but I would have thought anything that boosts short term power is likely to be easier to detect.

    Then again I also think Bolt is clean on the basis that his physical appearance is the exact opposite to what you would expect in someone doping for an explosive sprint event. As someone said you get these "freaks" in sports every now and again, the danger now is we are all so cynical that we automatically assume they are assisted.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Pross wrote:
    I believe he is clean. The reason being he tends to struggle in the TTs at the end of a long stage race relative to when he is fresh. One of the key benefits of doping is surely the reduction in fatigue? Obviously this depends on the choice of juice but I would have thought anything that boosts short term power is likely to be easier to detect.

    Then again I also think Bolt is clean on the basis that his physical appearance is the exact opposite to what you would expect in someone doping for an explosive sprint event. As someone said you get these "freaks" in sports every now and again, the danger now is we are all so cynical that we automatically assume they are assisted.

    For both - it all depends on how you're doping....

    But anyway...

    We can all agree, juice or sans juice, we all want Canc in the race rather than out.
    _
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    Aggieboy wrote:
    all show no go wrote:
    I questioned his performance at the Worlds TT on this very forum. He is obviously an astonishing athlete in a natural sense. But I do wonder, when you see how he so comprehensively eats up everything in front of him on the road, and wins by minutes rather than seconds in a time trial.
    Maybe he's just a freak of nature though...

    Once in a while nature throws us a someone that is sublime in sport. To me, people such as Ali, Pele, Michael Jordan, Usain Bolt, Michael Johnson, Barry John and Michael Phelps. I like to think he is one.

    FB is a great tester and excellent classic man but is he up there with that calibre of athlete, people who have dominated or been the main figure in their respective sports over a period of years..not so sure bout that and I vaguely remember Barry John as a great rugby player but i dont put him the same category as Pele and Ali.,25 caps retired at 27 .........nope not for me.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    25 caps in rugby back then was a lot. You had to play a whole game and some internationals were uncapped. I'd say he was as close to a rugby equivalent of Pele as you could get.
  • Garry H
    Garry H Posts: 6,639
    Pross wrote:
    25 caps in rugby back then was a lot. You had to play a whole game and some internationals were uncapped. I'd say he was as close to a rugby equivalent of Pele as you could get.

    Agreed, he wasn't called The King for nothing. The only other player that comes to mind is his partner on the field, Edwards.

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