Marshalling
danieljgreen
Posts: 56
Im Marshalling a CDNW event in march, what do i need to bring and what do i need to do?
just wanted to get an idea before im acctually there doing it!
i havent ridden a race before and wanted to marshall first to get an idea of what happens in a race and what to expect for my first race the week after.
any advice would be great.
thank you
just wanted to get an idea before im acctually there doing it!
i havent ridden a race before and wanted to marshall first to get an idea of what happens in a race and what to expect for my first race the week after.
any advice would be great.
thank you
0
Posts
Generally, if you're stuck on a corner (as opposed to doing any of the many other jobs needed doing to put on a race), what you do is get handed a red flag and a big fluoro bib and told to stand on a corner.
You are not allowed to stop traffic (unless you're in Wales or Essex and have been certified to) but when you see the lead car come through - flashing lights, sign which says "lead car" on it, that's the sign that the bunch is coming through, and it's a good idea to warn any cars that are coming through your junction about the hazard. With your flag and fluoro bib, they'll almost always stop in response to your warning, but they do not have to. Be friendly with the drivers that stop, there often interested in the race tell them it will only be short - a bunch will generally go through quickly.
Once the bunch is through, and the rest of the race convoy you can let the drivers go, do so with a cheery wave and thanks. In the unlikely event of anyone complaining or doing something bad, don't get into a fight, explain where they can find the race organiser and take a note of their registration number.
If there's a break of any distance, you'll have another lead car after the break to trigger the action. The break especially will often shout at you and beg to know what the gap is - you'll not have a clue as you probably won't have seen the race for 20minutes, but if you do (the lead car can sometimes tell you) let them know if everything is safe on your corner.
For people who are off the back, do you what you can, they'll often come with limited warning as they'll no longer be protected by cars. So here often all you can do is shout to the rider that it's clear to proceed. Guys who have punctured and are chasing back on are often pretty fired up, but most people who are dropped are now just riding for the training so aren't as bothered if they're delayed.
If there's no neutral service and you can easily do it, having a multi-tool, and everything needed to repair a puncture can be useful as sometimes you'll get some poor guy 6 miles from HQ who's punctured and is in for a long walk back.
Basically though, it's just standing on a corner and attracting the attention of cars that there's a race in progress. If you have the NEG motorbikes on your race then it's pretty dull as a motorbike tends to be a lot more imposing than a bloke with a flag.
That's if it's a road race, if you're marshalling a CTT event, you have 1 role alone, that of pointing the riders in the correct direction. Not even advising traffic. But I've often thought that a bit odd.
thank you for the reply.
great advice and really helps giving me an idea of what ill be required for (quite excited).
it is a road race, apologies i should have mentioned that.
thank you once again.
Dan
Jim pretty much covers it above. Just one thing to bear in mind is that the bunch will take corners at speed and will often cross the white line at junctions (especially on road they turn in to). They are not officially supposed to do this, but it does and will happen - be prepared to stand much further away from the junction than you'd first think sensible.
If you can't see the other marshall on the corner with you, some means of communicating (referee's whistles are good) is a good idea although most organisers will probably not provide more than a red flag and hi-vis jacket.
Hope it goes well.
The watch is so you can estimate how long it will be before the race comes through again (6 mile loop @ 24mph would be every 15 mins). Lets you know if you have time for a bathroom break or not.
Good on you for offering to help.
How did the lead car get through?
Don't worry though, you will be just fine. 99.9% of the public are most cooperative. If you just wave your flag people will generally stop so just expalin that its only a few secs delay. The odd idiot will not stop and there's nothing you can do - its not your fault, so ignore comments like that made bymontydog above about idiot marshals. I've been marshalling a top level race on a motorbike with a police escort and some idiot wouldn't wait so drove int a police motorcyclist to push him out of the way.
If anybody complains just tell them that the race has been authorised by the police (which it has) and that the HQ is at ....... where they can contact the organiser.
unless the marshal is CSAS qualified, there is nothing legally they can do to prevent traffic from going wherever it wishes. The only other alternative is for (non qualified) marshals to literally take the law into their own hands and risk a complaint, potential prosecution and likely withdrawal of the police permit for future events. Now who's the dozy one, eh..?
The race is on the open road - it is up to the riders to ride safely. I've been in many races where the bunch has been split by horses, tractors and even loose cows on the road. It's just the way it is.....
There should be a marshalls briefing prior to the race where you can ask a few questions - if you haven't raced then ideally they should allocate you a relatively straighforward marshalling point.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
FWIW - i didn't know that we can't stop the traffic, just as well the traffic does not know
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
I think it's important to remember that you can't stop traffic. However it's also important to remember that standing in the middle of the road with a bib and flag as a bunch goes by pretty much stops traffic... You've just got to make sure you don't have the attitude with the drivers that they have to, make sure they know they're doing you a favour.
But yes, if the front cars through the junction, stopping cars is pretty important!
it's also could be seen as 'wilful obstruction' under the Highways Act, which is why the CSAS scheme will need to be expanded nationally if road racing is to have any kind of future....
Basically this is what I do. Stand about 3 feet into the road with the flag pointing out towards the centre line. The car has to then drive straight through the flag so if it's a nutter, that's what he'll do but he won't hit you. Everyone else will stop. Once the first car (if there's more than one) has stopped, assess the person inside, make eye contact. Walk down the side of the car with your flag still out. They will roll down the window, you mention there's a bike race about to come through. They will either be annoyed or won't care. If they don't care, you're fine.
If they are annoyed, let them rant and rave, nod politely, apologise for the delay, and most importantly keep them talking til the race has gone through. Let them give you their 2 pence on every subject under the sun as long as it keeps them there with their car stopped, waiting. Once the race and all the vehicles have gone through, step away and remove the flag and wish them a good day.
Be assertive but not aggressive.
sorry to be censored about this Maryka, but what you are suggesting is effectively obstruction of the highway. I know it happens (I've done it myself), but this is seriously not the way forward. It only takes one motorist to register an official complaint with the police and the whole future of the event risks being put under review with the very people (the police) whose support we rely on.
Having recently done the CSAS accreditation myself, I now feel pretty certain that within a few years, events will only get permission if the promoting club can provide CSAS marshals on every turn or crossing point. That isn't going to happen unless more forces decide to adopt the CSAS scheme, and that isn't going to happen until more clubs (or BC) start lobbying their local police commissioners for the training...
You've not established it's an unreasonable obstruction though - remember the offence only exists if it's unreasonable - and stopping a driver to warn them of a hazard ahead sounds eminently reasonable to me. But the courts have never been asked to judge such a question so it's not exactly decided.
I really don't think the CSAS approach works, way too much bureaucracy for a task that has been done without for a long time, a change in law which empowers marshals explicitly to stop traffic for short periods consistent with an authorised event is much more practical. Requiring hundreds of people to become accredited through a course for 1 event a year, or making it so only a few marshalls have to do every event is not practical, nor necessary. I don't support the CSAS approach.
yeah, I'm sure the police will see it that way too......try explaining that to them after they stop the race with one lap to go.....because some bloke with a flag and a hi-viz vest over-stepped the mark...
you may have missed the point here - look up the Serious Organised Crime & Police Act 2005 and you will see that is exactly what CSAS enables you to do.
If your club shares the same attitude (I hope not), then you might be kissing goodbye to your events in a few years.....
I agree it would be best if there were legal rights to stopping traffic -- either through a course that marshals would take (not ideal because we're already hard-up for marshals and don't need any more obstacles to stand in the way of their volunteering!) or in the way that Jim described (not likely either, not in this ridiculous nanny-state).
What I was trying to describe was the (happy) middle ground between causing a real road obstruction by standing in the way and putting yourself in danger, and not causing enough of a distraction to make drivers slow down thus possibly endangering the bunch. The way I described means that the least amount of risk is taken by the marshal for the most amount of safety for the bunch. If a driver has a problem with that, too bad. As an organiser and commissaire I would much rather deal with a complaint that came about in this way than with an accident causing injury or death of either marshals or riders.
Again, it's more common sense and in-the-moment judgement than anything. I would hate to see a driver lodge a complaint but I think a flag in the middle of the road without a person standing there isn't an unreasonable obstruction. I would also hate to see a bunch of cyclists get hit because the marshal was too timid and made it look like he wasn't trying to warn traffic at all (which is what TT marshals tend to do -- they are there merely to direct riders and they are supposed to ignore traffic completely, leaving it up to the rider to decide when it's safe to proceed. But the riders know and accept this in TTing, not so much in road racing).
Fwiw, the NEG guys on motorcycles are technically not allowed to stop traffic either, but the way they park themselves in the middle of the road, big guy in a big bike, effectively creates a full obstruction for cars.
if they have been through the CSAS scheme - and many of them have - they can legally stop traffic.
I suspect riders would be a lot more upset if the police stop the race with one lap to go because a car drove past a timid marshal without stopping and ran into the bunch.
And yes, I do volunteer in the sport of cycling. Lots.
No prosecution has ever resulted - so you're clearly overstating the case.
I know what the CSAS entitles you to do, but it's irrelevant, for our clubs race this saturday, it would require 18 people to become accredited marshalls, for the 1 event we can get the members to do - and another different 18 people for our other road race. And instead of asking these people to give up 1 day a year, we're now asking them to give up two. If they were happy to do that, we could promote twice as many races.
It's clear from the thousands of races run without accredited marshalls that it's not necessary to be accredited, removing the need to become accredited, and making anyone under accredited events able to do it achieves the same safe racing without having hundreds of people losing their time.
The time of individuals already commited to the sport is irrelevant, it's the time of those people not committed to the sport that are relied on, making it even harder on those doesn't make for a safer sport.
You have no idea what I do or don't do, but the point is it takes a lot more than 1 person to marshal a road race.
you have 18 turns on your circuit..?? Not every single marshal needs the CSAS rating...
By the way, of course I am overstating the case. But like Maryka says, this is now the nanny state, so we either organise an Egyptian/Libyan/Tunisian-style uprising and replace the government with something more sensible - or we adapt. Which do you think might be easier..?
From the latest BC update on road racing on open roads:
and
So it would seem the nanny state might seem fit to have sense after all? I'll believe it when I see it.
Also need to stop traffic at the finish! (I know you know this
I don't know your circuit, but I would imagine that just because you have traffic converging from three directions, does not necessarily mean you need three marshals. In theory, one CSAS marshal can stop and hold traffic coming from more than one direction, but like I say, I don't know the road layout.
bicycle races are coming your way, so forget all your duties oh yeah!
fat bottomed girls they'll be riding today, so look out for those beauties oh yeah
Not only am I anticipating no problems in getting them to stop, but there's also the chance of making myself a few quid and cleaning up South-West Surrey in parking charges.